Bird Photography

Geoff Hargreaves · Status: Offline

RE: Bird Photography

JOHN TYMON · Status: Offline

Steven Astley wrote:

Thought this would be appropriate thread to post, does anybody know what set up jon taverner has. I have noticed he his not listed in the about photographers like others are
If its top secret, pm me and ill promise I wont tell anyone

Jon won't mind me letting you know,he uses a Nikon d300s and Nikon 500mm f4 vr.

Steven Astley · Status: Offline

Thought this would be appropriate thread to post, does anybody know what set up jon taverner has. I have noticed he his not listed in the about photographers like others are
If its top secret, pm me and ill promise I wont tell anyone

Paul Wilson · Status: Offline

Martyn Jones wrote:

Finally, can anyone tell me somewhere I can take my camera and more specifically my Bigma lens for a quick check to see if it's working as it should. Would someone at InFocus at Martin Mere do that for me without charge? I'm a little disappointed with its sharpness at 500mm even when using a fast shutter speed, tripod and remote, but I may just be expecting too much. Any help appreciated.

The Bigma is a reasonable lens - for the price. I have never used one - i used the Tamron 200-500 for a few years. The tamron was rated by many as being sharper than the Bigma at the 500mm end but even the Tamron was a bit soft. Having said that, most DSLRs take "soft" photos. Compact cameras tend to sharpen images in camera, whereas DSLRs don't (unless you dial it in to do so). I now use a Sigma 500 f4.5 and images are still slightly soft and need sharpening on the PC. I don't know what you use to process your photos, but to get the best out of your pics you really need to use something like Photoshop (I am currently using CS3 - but really want CS5 when it comes out!)

-- Edited by Paul Wilson on Friday 30th of April 2010 10:12:51 PM

JOHN TYMON · Status: Offline

Martyn Jones wrote:

Thanks for your reply Pete (Astles) and everyone else.

Yeah, I'll photograph almost anything! I know a lot of birders turn to moths and dragonflies in the summer, so I'll keep my eyes open when there aren't so many birds about. You say my Bigma lens will be OK for closeups like that - got any other tips or examples with camera settings to look at please?

Can anyone let me have the name and contact details of birders local to Leigh and Wigan who give demonstrations, tutorials or lessons on taking good bird photographs. I've heard Charlie Owen is one such person - can someone give me his telephone number or e-mail please? How much is usually charged for a session?

Finally, can anyone tell me somewhere I can take my camera and more specifically my Bigma lens for a quick check to see if it's working as it should. Would someone at InFocus at Martin Mere do that for me without charge? I'm a little disappointed with its sharpness at 500mm even when using a fast shutter speed, tripod and remote, but I may just be expecting too much. Any help appreciated.

I've just started a blog as a diary to store my best pictures - no big ideas here and certainly nowhere near as good as others I've seen, but if you'd like to have a quick look it's at GeekTeacher's Birding Blog. It's still under construction but any comments are welcome and I'll add some of the best photos to the Manchester Birding website.

Cheers, Martyn

-- Edited by Martyn Jones on Sunday 25th of April 2010 07:26:26 PM

charlie hasn't got e-mail,he doasn't do computers,if you go to penny you will bump into him,he knws little of digital photography,but no one knows more about general photography,and birds which is the main thing.
I think looking at your pictures,your doing fine,the sigma 50-500,is a strange beast,a beltin lens,but without stableisation,its difficult except in the best of light to hand hold.i don't think you need any lessens in photography,you just need a bit of time to learn the subjects.A trip to Marshside RSPB,doing the AVOCETS,will help your technique,as black and white birds are murder to get right,or martin mere,its supprising how many wild birds mix in with the tame there. I would stick to Jpegs and forget RAW,for a while as at first VOLUME,will give you the best shots.take 100s and pick the best and has time goas on ,you will become selective at what you take.
You will get good advice on Shutternutters.co.uk. which is run by local semi pro photographers,and you can post shots on thier,and the others will give you advice.They are not birders,they are photographers.
john

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 30th of April 2010 07:30:19 AM

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 30th of April 2010 07:33:05 AM

jason atkinson · Status: Offline

Hi Martyn,

Do you not feel your lens is working correctly? Maybe like you say you are expecting too much from it. Just had a look on your blog very easy to follow with good images, but where you could improve it is by resizing your photos so when they open you don't fill the screen with a very over-cropped image, then your images may look sharper. What are you processing your images in? Its in the processing stage your images do really improve. Have a look at my blog for an idea of image sizes. I use a Canon but if you drop me a PM i will link you to some great sites which will i am sure help you further with your Nikon kit. Just keep practising and it will all click into place.

cheers
jason

Martyn Jones · Status: Offline

Thanks for your reply Pete (Astles) and everyone else.

Yeah, I'll photograph almost anything! I know a lot of birders turn to moths and dragonflies in the summer, so I'll keep my eyes open when there aren't so many birds about. You say my Bigma lens will be OK for closeups like that - got any other tips or examples with camera settings to look at please?

Can anyone let me have the name and contact details of birders local to Leigh and Wigan who give demonstrations, tutorials or lessons on taking good bird photographs. I've heard Charlie Owen is one such person - can someone give me his telephone number or e-mail please? How much is usually charged for a session?

Finally, can anyone tell me somewhere I can take my camera and more specifically my Bigma lens for a quick check to see if it's working as it should. Would someone at InFocus at Martin Mere do that for me without charge? I'm a little disappointed with its sharpness at 500mm even when using a fast shutter speed, tripod and remote, but I may just be expecting too much. Any help appreciated.

I've just started a blog as a diary to store my best pictures - no big ideas here and certainly nowhere near as good as others I've seen, but if you'd like to have a quick look it's at GeekTeacher's Birding Blog. It's still under construction but any comments are welcome and I'll add some of the best photos to the Manchester Birding website.

Cheers, Martyn

-- Edited by Martyn Jones on Sunday 25th of April 2010 07:26:26 PM

Martyn Jones · Status: Offline

Hi, again. I was out and about at Penny early today (before the car parking meter was unlocked) and later met up with John Tymon, John Taverner and a couple of other people whose name I didn't catch - nice to meet you all. John set up my camera for me the way he likes it and so I'll be trying that for a while. I can see now why he mentioned that John Taverner would be on his knees with his lens - that 500mm prime is one hell of a beast!

Thanks again to all who have replied to my initial post, including the most recent ones. I took over 500 pictures today so I'll probably spending quite a few hours selecting and processing the best. I got nice ones of the grebes, redshank and common sandpipers that came close to Horrocks Hide, but my shot of a kestrel carrying a frog was a little blurred - ah, so much to learn (or spend).

Hope to meet some more of you sometime.

Martyn

-- Edited by Martyn Jones on Sunday 25th of April 2010 01:18:21 PM

Pete Astles · Status: Offline

Martyn

I know this is a birding site and your query was about bird photos.

But have you considered butterflies, dragonflies and damselflies? Summer is coming up and these can be very obliging and you can get some very good professional shots which will encourage you. Getting good bird shots especially action ones is not easy in my experience. You might be better with a macro lens for the butterflies but the 50.500 bigma is well known as being a good lens for the dragons which move about a lot and the sigmas flexibility and reach is good for.

Rome wasnt built in a day

Pete

Anthony Dixon · Status: Offline

Hi Martyn,

Some excellent advice already.
Like Adrian says "Learn all about your camera"
This is very important, because in wildlife photography, you have to be able to react fast, often after long periods of inactivity...Most of my time photographing wildlife is spent finding subjects and then waiting for something to happen and the last thing you want to be doing is fumbling around with settings the moment your subject decides to do something exciting.

The biggest advice I can give is when you have your subject in sight, never take your eye from the viewfinder...Sounds obvious, but you wouldn't believe the number of potential great shots lost by looking away for even a split second!

I use aperture priority for nearly all my work too.

Good luck, look forward to seeing some of your images.

Anthony

Adrian Drummond-Hill · Status: Offline

It's difficult to add to the excellent advice you have been given, other than these tips. There are a few yardsticks regarding shutter speeds, if you are using 500mm lenses, the minimum shutter speed on a full frame camera should be 500th second, with a 300mm lens 300th second and so forth. You will have to adjust these figures for a DX format camera.

When I focus on a bird, I always do it on the eye. The rest of the bird could be out of focus but as long as the eye is OK it will look a good shot. Try to get a catch light in the eye for that extra punch.

Use a tripod, monopod or bean bag to support the camera, to prevent camera shake. I've even used car window frames.

Birds are creatures of habit and if one perches on a particular branch, chances are he'll return to it. Patience will bring rewards.

Learn all about your camera, try it doing general photography, set it at aperture or shutter priority and experiment with the settings. I prefer aperture priority for most work.

When you process your pictures, don't over-sharpen them.

Paul Heaton · Status: Offline

Birdwatch this month has a free copy of complete guide to bird photography, also a complimentary copy of the new Bird Art & Photography magazine,

Keep birding

Martyn Jones · Status: Offline

Hey guys, many many thanks for all your replies and tips. I haven't managed to read and absorb everything yet, but I wanted to say thanks first) - hope to see some of you out and about.

Regards, Martyn.

Paul Heaton · Status: Offline

Steve Young does some excellent articles in (Birdwatching magazine) or Birdwatch one or the other, he also has some good books out as well, for sheer history try reading Eric Hoskings An eye for a bird, he began with plate camera's, we are so spoilt nowadays.

Keep Birding

JOHN TYMON · Status: Offline

HI Martyn
use the info i gave you last week-minimum 400th second for normal shot,bang the 50-500 on f8,and for flight shots use the S setting and put it on a minimum of 1200th sec.Use auto iso either maxing at 800 or until you get experience 1600.The d90 will put up with that. Pick up a second hand sigma 150-500,I think you already had Bins,if not get some bins,and get used to studying the birds a bit.
You can have all the equipment in the world,but if you don't know the subject its rare you will get the best shots,with experience 30+ years in my case at penny,you get a second sence of what a bird will do,for instance last year there were 8 green sanpipers asleep at penny at the front of the teal hide,i saw a pair of teal coming from thier right through them,so i got set up and knew they would all lift their heads to see what was coming towards them-click 8 green sands at penny all looking one way,a unique shot.
good luck and rather than have someone meet you just wander around penny and if you bump into any of us,Charlie Owen,myself,Jon Taverner(he will be on his knees with his lens)so you will reconise him,any of us will help,but theres no instant fix,its time consuming and hard work at times.Have a summer learning,then contact Charlie next winter and pay for a couple of sessions in charlies private hide on the moss,and you will learn more from Charlie in a day than any website,and he doasn't charge very much at all,just enough so he can keep the site going with food.
see ya sometime

John

David Winnard · Status: Offline

Can only echo what Mr Cliff has written. Practice makes perfect, just enjoy it, but learn the basics, f numbers, shutter speeds etc. Work out what is the slowest shutter you can hand hold before you get camera shake.

Ansel Adams said that if he got 12 great photos in a year it was a good year.

As for getting close to stuff, field craft and hides. I have a 500mm lens and whilst it looks big its more for speed, i still end up having to use hides or field craft to get pics of smaller birds.

At the end of the day it depends on what kind of photographer you want to be, one who wants to record the birds they see whilst out and about, or one who wants to spend time working on a subject to get the 'perfect' shot. A friend of mine has been photographing Coot for weeks now trying to get the shots he wants (and from what i have seen they are stunning!).

Best of Luck and hope to see some images soon!

Dave

Pete Welch · Status: Offline

I'm still in the learner stage but loads of practise, not being afraid to take say 800 shots over a full day [and hours on the PC afterwards] all help but the best thing I did was take a day's course of one to one tuition on photography from a very good birder. Went from using auto settings to understanding the basics of aperture control, ISO, shutter speeds required, spot focus versus matrix, exposure and field craft at the same time.

Best places are Penny [very early before it gets busy], and dare I say it Martin Mere - practise on the collection birds then head for the hides. As for kit I've gone through D40 - D60 - D80 to D300s and lenses I currently use are 70-300mm VR [which is a very good walkabout lens and faster focus for birds in flight] and an 80-400mm VR [which is good for the extra reach but a bit slow to focus]. I've bought and sold gear as I've moved on and its all been 2nd hand without any problems. I think after about a year everyone starts dreaming of a 500mm F4 prime lens but as I don't want a divorce I haven't bought one of those yet...

My basics are aim for 1/500th shutter speed for static birds, or faster for birds in flight, at F8 aperture and use ISO and lower aperture to get it if its not good light - I start at ISO 200 and do go up to 1600 if I have to but prefer to stay at 400 if I can.

My most common problem is not checking the settings often enough - have set off on sunny days with ISO at 1600 and not checked because I get too carried away with the birding to think properly about the photography...

Paul Cliff · Status: Offline

dingalingaling! i know it's all a bit when i was a lad but when i was a lad it cost serious money to practice and get good!
a roll of tranny was 7 or 8 quid, a clip test 3 quid and then the processing at £6.50 (extra cost for pushing or pulling) all for 30 frames after the test. can you imagine that these days? £20 for every 30 frames you trow away?

we used to think twice before our fingers pulled the trigger in them days... god i sound old. i might see if keith fancies a pint of mild at a tavern of his choosing.

mark cain · Status: Offline

Hi

I'm new to bird photography too but spend most weekends either at Moore near Warrington or at Penny practising the sometimes frustrating art of trying to get good shots of birds. It's a good job we're on digital and not rolls of film now or else it would cost me a fortune; I reckon that for every good photo I get I take about 30-40 dud ones. Having said that, I have got some decent pictures with relatively limited equipment. I would be willing to meet up one weekend to share tips and learn together.

Cheers,

Mark

Tony Coatsworth · Status: Offline

I'm experimenting with a Manfrotto monopod at the moment - £45 from Jessops

I found a tripod was a bit of a faff

Paul Cliff · Status: Offline

hi martyn and welcome

i'm sure there will be some of the excellent bird photographers on here along soon with all kinds of tips.

a few things i know... for every great bird pic you see from anyone in the galleries here there will be hundreds of duds.

photographing birds is hard - they are tiny, elusive and very rarely still.

you have the gear the best thing you can do is go practice - practice - practice and above all else try and enjoy it.

the bunting hide at penny is a good place to start.

dave winnard has an article in the article section at the front of the site and i believe dave does offer tuition if you were looking for something like that.

just get out there and try, try, try!

Martyn Jones · Status: Offline

Hi all, I'm new to bird watching and bird photography and I was hoping that some people here might give me some hints and tips about equipment and more particularly camera settings and techniques for taking good pictures. I've done a search on this forum and found a link to some useful tutorials but there's always room for more useful snippets of information.

I know this is a bit of a long shot but I'd also be interested in joining anyone who will taking bird photographs in the Wigan, Leigh and Bolton area (e.g. Penny or other Flashes, Doffcocker, Moses Gate etc) if they didn't mind. Or perhaps someone who will accompany me on a trip to Penny to give me advice while I am taking pictures on my own equipment.

I have some fairly decent gear mainly bought off e-bay, including a Nikon D90 with a Nikkor 70-300mm zoom and a Sigma 50-500mm zoom. I also have a Nikon ED82 spotting scope (but I am currently in dispute about a scratched eyepiece). What would be a good but affordable tripod for this stuff up to about £200?

Finally, what I really want to know is how to take good closeups of raptors and waders with this equipment - some closeups photos of birds in flight on the website are superb when I only ever manage to get dots in the sky - how close do need to get with a 500mm lens. Can anyone tell me some good places to go to get decent closeups.

I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop here - I'm keen to learn and would appreciate any help from someone who has the time and inclination to give it me.

Thanks in advance

Martyn