Richmond Bank

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

RE: Richmond Bank

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Five hours today with Pete Berry (and from with midday Jason Atkinson):

6 Yellow-legged Gull (4 adults and 2 1st winter)
1 juvenile Iceland Gull, a very worn individual and certainly not one of the four other juveniles we've seen this winter so far.

Mike Baron · Status: Offline

Pete Kinsella wrote:

Hi Mike, just clocked your pics of the Casp...a nice one! This is , I`m pretty certain, one of the adults that Tim Vaughan and I had on Dec 4th.In addition to a 2cy and an adult with a fine shawl of nape spotting, I saw this long-billed, white headed individual, albeit at a fair distance.I assumed it to be Ian McK`s bird from two days earlier although it seemed to have a darker area around the gonys than his bird.However I put this down to distance and light( it was raining at the time). Having now seen your pics, it would appear to be a different bird to Ian`s, although I`d like to hear his opinion, as my views were distant. If it is a new bird ,then at least three different adults have been seen so far this winter, as well as the 2cy,which is not bad.
Hopefully I should hear if any tip visits are being arranged soon, but if not, Richmond Bank seems to be a good bet over the next few weeks.

Thanks Pete

As Ian comments - a completely different bird. A friend of mine, John Tymon, ran the images through some deionising software which produced much cleaner images and strongly suggests, in my opinion, that the discolouration on the birds head is partly noise from the camera and partly muck from wherever it has its head. I haven't used this image as I am not usually a big fan of image processing other than cropping and sharpening and I think people should make their own minds up based on the original.

It sounds very much like the bird I saw is the one you saw over 3 weeks earlier which suggests it is hanging around. With a bit of luck and patience someone else may get onto this bird or one of the others. They are clearly out there.

Finding an interesting bird like this just makes me want to go and find another (I suspect it may take a while!) so please let us know if the tip runs start up again. Otherwise hopefully I will bump into you at RB or Seaforth at some point in the near future.

Cheers

Mike

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Mike (Baron's) bird is certainly not the same as the bird Pete Berry and I had. Mike's bird has a much duller bill atleast and the head of our bird was totally unstreaked. Mike sent me the images for an opinion after he had taken them but due to my laziness over the New Year (working actually!) I haven't put them on the galleries yet as they lie in a folder on my desktop

Tomorrow honestly

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi Mike, just clocked your pics of the Casp...a nice one! This is , I`m pretty certain, one of the adults that Tim Vaughan and I had on Dec 4th.In addition to a 2cy and an adult with a fine shawl of nape spotting, I saw this long-billed, white headed individual, albeit at a fair distance.I assumed it to be Ian McK`s bird from two days earlier although it seemed to have a darker area around the gonys than his bird.However I put this down to distance and light( it was raining at the time). Having now seen your pics, it would appear to be a different bird to Ian`s, although I`d like to hear his opinion, as my views were distant. If it is a new bird ,then at least three different adults have been seen so far this winter, as well as the 2cy,which is not bad.
Hopefully I should hear if any tip visits are being arranged soon, but if not, Richmond Bank seems to be a good bet over the next few weeks.

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Ha ha wise words John. It can feel like looking for a needle in a haystack, and yes can be quite demoralising at times if i'm honest.
But keep at it and i swear you'll get the bug...
All the best for a gull-filled 2011 to all on the forum.

JOHN TYMON · Status: Offline

couple of hours at richmond bank

totally overwelmed by the gull numbers.
If anyone wants to feel inadequate after 35 years birding,have a go at 20,000 gulls in the mist that all look the same

you should have to serve a 5 year apprenticeship under the gull brigade,before venturing to richmond bank.Picking a adult Yellow legged out of 40 lesser black back gulls at penny ,no problem,in with 20,000 other gulls,no chance for me

took some misty landscapes and came home

Next time I will sneak up when there are others around,and see if I can latch on to what they are seeing,and i know now why I travell 10 miles to penny,and leave a 1 mile jpourney to richmond bank out.ducks are much easier than gulls

Mike Baron · Status: Offline

Spent around 90 mins there this morning. Only around 3000 birds present and very restless, constantly spooking.

2nd winter Iceland Gull and adult Yellow-legged Gull seen.

On Monday am with just 400 or so large gulls present I had what I think is a good candidate for adult Caspian Gull plus first winter Yellow-legged Gull and leucistic first winter Herring Gull.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

No problems today, many thousands present most of which never moved all day!

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Are the gulls a bit more settled? It was getting to the stage where there weren't the numbers on the Bank and they were using the Moss Side fields.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Four hours with Pete Berry today:

Second winter Iceland Gull
6 Yellow-legged Gulls (5 adults, 1 first-winter)
53 Skylark over (mainly heading north but some east and west)

pete berry · Status: Offline

A poor day today,with the gulls not settling at all,in fact most of the gulls appeared to be roosting in fields about 1 mile from the river.Only bird of note was a single ad. Yellow Legged Gull.
psThe 6 week closure of Tannery Lane has today been lifted as the roadworks are completed.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Nearly 4 hours today with Pete Berry, gulls oddly flighty

2 adult Yellow-legged Gulls
Single adult probable hybrid Lesser Black-backed x Herring Gull
Single Brambling
Single Tree Sparrow mixed in with a flock of Linnets which alighted briefly in bushes before heading off north.

sid ashton · Status: Offline

Pete Kinsella wrote:

Hi, view from the northern side of the river looking towards the tip.Access from the A562 in Penketh onto Tannery Lane which leads onto Station Rd.At the end of the road there is a small car park.Walk across the railway line and canal and follow the track left alongside the canal, after c300m bear right towards the river and follow the track, heading east until the view of the river opens up to your right and hopefully a few thousand Gulls standing on the mud!

Pete that brings back rare memories - don't forget your thermals, waterproofs and Oxo drink Nick

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi, view from the northern side of the river looking towards the tip.Access from the A562 in Penketh onto Tannery Lane which leads onto Station Rd.At the end of the road there is a small car park.Walk across the railway line and canal and follow the track left alongside the canal, after c300m bear right towards the river and follow the track, heading east until the view of the river opens up to your right and hopefully a few thousand Gulls standing on the mud!

Nick Isherwood · Status: Offline

I'm hopefully planning to pay a visit here in the near future. Which bank of the river is best to view it from. Also where's the best place to park.

Thanks

Nick.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Also at Richmond Bank today:

A flock of 80-100 Fieldfare heading west and smaller numbers of Redwings likewise.
Several Song Thrushes in the sparce bushes there.
Single Willow Tit.
Possible Common Sandpiper, not confirmed at all but worth an eye out for.

pete berry · Status: Offline

A visit by Ian and I today produced
3 yellow Legged Gulls(2 ad,1 1st w.)
2 1st w. Iceland Gulls(different birds from yesterdays)
and a new gull bag tick,an Herring Gull attached to a Morrisons carrier bag.

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Nice to finally put faces to names!

-- Edited by Mike Duckham on Thursday 9th of December 2010 10:38:00 PM

Tom McKinney · Status: Offline

3 Iceland Gulls today: 1cy, 2cy & a tricky one that was either a retarded 2cy or advanced 1cy.

Up to 6 adult Yellow-legged Gulls, but no idea whether we duplicated some.

No Caspian Gulls.

Mike Mulholland · Status: Offline

Hi Mike, on the 15th I was at HWH - not intending to do any serious gulling (tbh I was looking for Lapbunt or anything to add to the patch year list- I'm 4 behind Mark F). I picked out an adult YLG and had a good look at it, in the distance i.e near the NW corner of Norton Marsh was a gull the mantle colour and bill of whcih suggested caspian. It was however too distant and mostly obscured to be certain of its' ID.

In terms of sightings I tend to ring RBA if its particularly significant and text the patch listers with good patch ticks. I also occasionally post sightings on the MNR website and Focalpoint. I have my own records of birds, inverts etc - it is my intention when I get the time to create a blog- Mid-Mersey Wildlife (recording all the flora and fauna of the patch - MNR, NM, UMS etc), I'd probably link it to my AMT Ecology website.

....Give me a bell when you nail a schistisagus

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Hearty congrats Pete, that's a great haul. I've been wondering for the last couple of years if they're perhaps not quite as rare at RB as is sometimes suggested - i know i personally must have been overlooking them in the past! I guess if they can make it all the way from E Europe to the Midlands in small numbers then another 70 miles to Warrington isn't asking too much, esp when it's such textbook habbo, ie a rubbish tip. Conversely i can't imagine them being anything over than a mega (giga?) in North Wales where myself and others have been keeping an eye out for them - the one place that i think fits the bill is Gresford Flash, and i reckon the local guller will get his just reward before too long.

Mike Mulholland wrote:

Excellent;wonder if this may be the bird that's been seen distantly on a couple of occasions in (the unusually high) gull gathering at HWH in the last few weeks.

Hi Mike, that's interesting to hear, ta for mentioning it - do you have dates? I had one on Nov 13th. Where's the best place to hear about your sightings?
Cheers.

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi, 3+ hours in rather poor weather conditions today produced three Caspian Gulls.The first, an adult, differed from the bird found by Ian in having some fine streaking on the lower nape which extended onto the neck sides.It also had a slightly duller bill than Ian`s bird.It also had some mud staining on its head, presumably from the tip.It had the classic primary pattern similar to the earlier adult.
Soon after a 2CY appeared amidst the flock and then towards the end Ian`s adult appeared rather briefly before disappearing after one of the many `dreads` that took place today.Some record shots were taken , but are no match for Ian`s pics, bad light, distance etc!!
There were huge numbers of Gulls here today, but only a minority were checked as many left as the tide came in and there were thousands over the tip on occasions.
Four Yellow-legged Gulls( 1 CY and 3 adults) and c40+ Argentatus Herrings were also present.
Good numbers of Song Thrushes were present in the scrub on the riverbank with 15+ counted, also Goldcrest and Redwing here.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

You were sorely missed Tom and our texts to you at the time of it's finding were purely so you could get a 'feel' of the find. Honest

Tom McKinney · Status: Offline

What a beauty. At least I found some time to paint the bathroom.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Sifting through a few hundred Caspians in spring and autumn this year alone sharpens you up Rob!

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 3rd of December 2010 03:59:19 PM

Rob Smallwood · Status: Offline

When I saw the report on BG's I wondered if Ian had finally nailed it, but picking it up on a fly through is just being downright cocky!

Well done mate, well deserved.

Mike Mulholland · Status: Offline

Excellent;wonder if this may be the bird that's been seen distantly on a couple of occasions in (the unusually high) gull gathering at HWH in the last few weeks.

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Nice one Ian, what a real classic individual this is.A fine series of images there too.This bird, in addition to the one at Seaforth on the 1st , shows that they are out there just waiting to be found and with the cold snap forecast to continue into next week, we may get more moving over to the comparatively milder west coast,

cheers, Pete.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Photos now on the out-of-county gallery plus a little photo essay of this cracker on the website too.

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Well done - you deserve a Casp for doing 4 hours on a day like today! Thought about it myself but decided it would be a bit too breezy - he who dares wins etc...

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Found in flight at 120 metres range, I'm quite proud of that! A couple of photos will be on by tonight with more to follow of this classic individual.

pete berry · Status: Offline

A 4 hour stint at Richmond today for Ian and I produced a stunning ad. Caspian Gull which Ian found(sure some pics will appear on web site soon).
Also seen today were 3 ad.Y.L.Gulls,and a yellow legged Argentatus.
Large nos. of gulls present throughout,but no whitewingers yet.
Also a Brambling on the way back to the car

The only downside was some thieving b*********d had pinched our park bench we used all last winter and we kept hidden in the undergrowth ,and we had to stand up!!

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

A glorious afternoon for birding which i spent at Gatewarth topping up the tan and looking at gulls, of which there were considerably more than this time last week, as hoped for (despite it being a Monday). The YLGs appear to have shipped out - i mustered a total of one, a 1st winter, and seem to have been replaced by a few more northern Herring Gulls, showing much more white in the primary tips and/or darker mantle & larger size. Highlight for me was good close views of a very dark slate-grey Common Gull, probably the darkest i've seen which suggested the ssp heini. Despite looking for these during the Spring passage of CGs on the Conwy estuary the last 2 Springs, i only saw one possible, and that was distant and in poor light and unsatisfactory. So a real rarity, of sorts! An unlikely split anytime soon i would have thought. Proceedings were brought to a close by a fowler shooting a female Mallard with a double barrelled shotgun just below where i was standing. I wondered why there weren't the flocks of Teal which i used to see here...

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

A rummage through the gulls with Henerz 11 a.m. - 2 p.m. produced a min. 2 ad YLGs, and one 1st W. plus an ad Med. Still a few Bullfinches, Redwings, Song Thrushes, Redshank and a Kingfisher.

Henry Cook · Status: Offline

23/11/2010 - Sightings from myself and Mike D this morning:

2+ Yellow-legged Gulls (ads)
2+ 'argentatus' Herring Gulls
1 HerringxGlaucous Gull

-- Edited by Henry Cook on Tuesday 23rd of November 2010 05:01:34 PM

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi Mike, good to see the Gulls are getting a grilling so soon this winter.Sounds like an interesting bird.As you say, during any Gulling session at Richmond Bank you can pick out a few Gulls which seem to have mixed characters or are at the extreme end of the spectrum of variation, especially as you say with Herring Gulls( can there be another species so variable?).
I`ve not quite cut my autumn umbilical cord from Seaforth but will try to get down there soon...four months of Gull watching awaits.

cheers, Pete.

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Hi Pete, thanks for responding, much appreciated, always like the opportunity to mull over ideas. Used to meet Jeff there now and then and argue ID's but since moving away i'm rarely back on the patch.
I agree that the way i worded my post does indeed make it sound v Casp-esque, praps due to a hurried lack of explanation (wasn't sure anyone was reading), and yes it really didn't fit the classic YLG mould either to be fair. And as you suggest, we're at a stage now of moving away from only nailing a "classic" Casp (or YLG, or smithy) to IDing birds within an acceptable variation. One thing me and Henerz kept coming back to today was the amazing variation in "Herring Gulls". If i'd had to find a "classic" HG today i'd have been hard pressed!
Anyway i didn't emphasise why i felt it had a good dollop of michahellis genes. Picked it out due to its' white head, and first impression jizz-wise was YLG, facing away from us at an angle. This i think was due to the head shape which was v wrong for Casp, broad, large, blocky, chunky, large 'face', etc. Secondly, the bill which i described as thin, i meant relative to mich, which i felt was at the thin end for mich (and much more peg-like than the 10+ YLGs i've seen this week), but not quite slender enough for classic Caspo, again giving the impression of being intermediate. Lastly, p9 in flight didn't have as much of a white tongue as i would have liked for Casp. Certainly the Casp on Sat had basically a white triangle for a wingtip in flight, and a much larger mirror under the folded wingtip (p10), however i hear what you're saying about the variable amount of white in cachinnans primaries. And lastly i do bird by jizz too, and this one didn't quite have it for me which made me wonder about the mixed Black Sea colonies...
Anyway, you're right it's worth searching for again, which is what i'll do.
Cheers.

Edit: no pics i'm afraid.

-- Edited by Mike Duckham on Friday 19th of November 2010 09:25:14 PM

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi Mike, the odd looking YLG you describe sounds intriguing.Particularly the bill structure and long spindly legs, dark eye, belly bulge etc.In fact it sounds like a decent description of a Casp.As I`m sure you are aware , not all adult Casps have the classic all ( or mostly)white tip to P10 and some birds are also darker mantled.
Certainly the vast majority of YLG`s I`ve seen at Moore/Richmond Bank and Seaforth over the years( 100`s) all seem to adhere to a standard structural type( especially head shape and bill structure), with only the occasional size differences noted( probably gender related).
Did you get any pics of this bird? if not it sounds very interesting and would definately be worth searching for again,

cheers,Pete

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

A shorter visit today, with Henerz was well worth it. Took a while to see anything interesting, then a Waxwing flew over trilling, really chuffed, it's a bird i've been trying to find for myself ever since the influx started. Two ad YLGs: one an interesting bird with a small dark eye, long spindly pale yellow-flesh legs, slightly long necked, a bulging rear belly and a long thin parallel-sided bill with little gonys but which was otherwise YLG, eg the head shape and structure, primary pattern, mantle etc. Perhaps a bird from the zone of intergradation with Casps in eastern Europe.
Edit: A Kingfisher showed off its incredible colours on the small pool on Gatewarth, awesome.

-- Edited by Mike Duckham on Friday 19th of November 2010 02:15:50 PM

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Gatewarth again - 4 YLGs today, 3 ads and a 3rd winter. Two skeins of Pinkfeet, one of c.25 and later one of c. 30, both north.
Cheers.
(edited coz i can't do sums!).

-- Edited by Mike Duckham on Tuesday 16th of November 2010 10:41:01 PM

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Min 4 YLGs, 3 adults and one 4th winter viewed from Gatewarth during the course of the afternoon. Rock/Water Pipit calling from the flat marshy section by the river. Some hybrid gulls too, i thought i had a HGxLBBG a week Sat and today there was a poss HGxYLG and a bird with features of YLGxLBBG, in addition to one or two others. As always, an education!
Edit: Also a Kingfisher.

-- Edited by Mike Duckham on Tuesday 16th of November 2010 07:59:42 PM

Mike Duckham · Status: Offline

Decided not to head for the Dee and went to the Mersey instead. 3 adult and one first summer YLG today. Also a Little Egret.
Cheers.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Or open the floodgates, especially with the forthcoming second 'section' of the article on the less classic individuals

I've often felt that it's not so much the identification of Caspian Gull which is the problem but rather with birders perception or should I say inexperience, with the massive variability of Herring Gulls in their various guises.

Having seen many Caspians in south-east England especially and many, many more regularly in Eastern Europe etc, it still amazes me why those who have considerable experience of them are the most considered and cautious in their approach and claims, often 'binning' what might be good calls, when those with less or no experience more often claim them on very 'thin' evidence indeed and with apparent gay abandon

Then again that goes for all walks of birding, though I think Caspian has all too often been the recent darling for mis-identification. Hopefully the BB articles will bring all the current identification citeria (that which was once the realm of those with either personal experience or a genuine love of gulls) together and assist in clearing the all too often often muddy waters for many.

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi Ian, yeah I`ve had a few decent Casp`s slip through the net, due to poor or brief views. Its`s a species thats claimed more times than its proved and some photos doing the rounds don`t look much like Casp`s to me.Although part of the enigma of this Gull is that it always look better in the field than it does in most photos, unless you`re getting birds close to the camera such as at Stubbers Green or the Essex Thames.Hopefully the latest British Birds article(s) will help with the ID process for some birders if they encounter a "possible Casp" in the future.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Thanks Pete. It's just one of those things.

I normally wouldn't have hesitated to call such a bird but after initially picking it up it literally 'jogged' across to a spot and dumped itself down, never to rear it's head again! My immediate reaction was 'Caspian' but then I was transfixed with reading the ring which was nigh on impossible and therefore didn't get all the necessary 'feather minute'. Mine was a knee jerk reaction to a familiar jizz and some other obvious key features.

After being critical of 'other Caspians' this winter I felt it would be 'unethical' for me to call this one on such a view, no matter what my instincts shouted. Them's the breaks, one should always trust one's initial instincts and I wouldn't be able to provide a sufficient description for rarity committee assessment anyway so fair play to Gavin who rightly takes the accolades. As for me, this merely answers a few questions in my own mind

P.s. I did my own search on the possibility for the colour ring whilst watching the beast facing away from us (from my iPhone, sad I know

). The fact that there are Caspian projects in operation utilising yellow rings only fuelled our intense frustration at the time!

Pete Kinsella · Status: Offline

Hi Ian, todays 1stw Caspian Gull was indeed the "real deal".An absolutely stonking individual found by Gavin Thomas.I managed to head down to see it with Tim Vaughan and had good views before it flew off east. Although having seen about eight or nine 1st winters at Moore over the last few years, this has to be one of the most classic looking individuals.It has a yellow ring on the left leg with black lettering, GT is checking out its history.I must say I didn`t notice any limp or ungainly gait!! maybe it`s learnt to cope with the leg-iron!Other than the boy, just a couple of YLG`s were present although more LBB`s than the last time I was there, as to be expected.The Cach had some decent nape spotting and a gleaming white head.The greater coverts were not particularly heavily worn and the mantle still contained some nice `anchors`.Hopefully it will hang around for others to see....to me there is no question, if you see this bird, you know you`re watching a Casp!

cheers,Pete.

p.s. I`ve got a few record shots, not as mega as GT`s, but can send them if needed.

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Anyone any further details regarding the reported ringed first winter Caspian at Richmond Bank today?

On the 8th March whilst Pete Berry and I were there, I felt absolutely adamant a first winter bird we observed was a Caspian Gull. Unfortunately, after a very brief semi-sprint around the mudflat shortly after we picked it up, it went to sleep, sat down and completely arse-on, and despite keeping an eye on it for an hour on and off never woke up! The gulls eventually all flew off on-mass and after being distracted by the apparent melanistic LBbGull we never saw it leave. Everything looked very good on it but given my own personal high standards for claiming Caspian's in the north-west of England atleast, I just felt such a brief decent look wasn't enough and I really needed to double check everything for peace of mind. The funny thing was that this individual was colour-ringed with a yellow ring with black letters/numbers which despite my best attempts couldn't be read due to the distance/heat haze. It also was perhaps only recently ringed as it walked with an almost comical limp as it hauled it's ring-bound leg around as if it wasn't entirely used to it yet

. We felt at the time that it stood a good chance of being re-found at some point especially wearing that ring but was today's 'our bird'?

If anyone knows the colour of the ring of the bird claimed at Richmond today (13th), then I'd be interested to know. I'll either still be kicking myself over not fully confiming 'our bird' or feeling smug at being able to get the ID right after a brief view at distance and in a heat haze. Someone put me out of my misery...

pete berry · Status: Offline

Ian and I spent a few hours topping up the tan today,picking through 15,000 + gulls.No birds of note apart from an amazing melanistic Lesser Black Backed gull which I've no doubt Ian will be putting a few pics of on this site,and several ringed birds,none of which we could read.

-- Edited by pete berry on Monday 8th of March 2010 08:21:14 PM

Ian McKerchar · Status: Offline

Four and a half hours today over the low tide with Pete Berry:

10 Yellow-legged Gulls (9 adults, 1 1st winter) including a metal ringed adult (photographed)!
1 Goosander
1 Great Crested Grebe
60 Skylark over east in one flock late morning