sid ashton wrote:

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OK guys I understand all that you say about photographers but let me add a couple of points. I believe that there wasn't just one big lens at very close quarters to the Phal yesterday but 4 or 5 - eventually, despite its otherwise forgiving nature the bird did a runner. It obviously wanted to be on the boating lake because it had returned and was feeding happily later on when there was just one other birder and myself present.

I appreciate that a lot of birders are also photographers - my birding friend is one herself but she would always observe correct field craft by not alarming the bird and not disrupting other folks' enjoyment of the moment. I believe that this would be your way John - don't expect that you upset too many folk jogging around Hollingworth trying to get pics of the diver . I also appreciate what you say about taking hours when you get home going through your shots - in a similar way I used to spend hours in the dark room perfecting my prints in predigital days when using a full roll of 36 shots was a luxury. I did enjoy the photos of the Penny Slav that you sent to me and they are saved in my collection for future viewing.

So points made - now where's the best place to buy one of these digi camera jobbies? Promise I won't buy one of those motor drive gadgets to annoy everyone else in the hide

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no motordrives these days,they are all 6 or 7 frames a second,like you i used to hate the 36 film slide days,i was scared of pressing the shutter as it was £7 everytime i did.jessops have gone very competitive recently and quite often are as cheap as online retailers,you will need a wazzin lens though,and a big bag,add a second camera body,your telescope,tripod,bins,and you can see why i was sweatin runnin round hollingsworth.

Ian McKerchar wrote:

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no shooting here Sid, just sometimes photographers get a bad name when it's not justified. Of course it seems that nowadays plenty birders carry dslr's so most fall into the photographer bracket. Being a digiscoper I'd be backing away to get a shot! There are though apparently lots of examples of poor fieldcraft, particularly from 'our friends' but I have to admit to never witnessing it myself though not generally twitching anymore I'm unlikely to I suppose? Back in the day though...

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Ian is 100% correct
A lot of birders are photographers now,look at me .I class myself as a birder,but 80% of the time now im trying to get a picture as well,it becomes like twiching ,a bit addictive,and sometimes the moment takes over the common sense. like me the other week charging round hollingworth trying to get in front of the diver,i must have looked like a demented jogger,carrying about 40lb on my back,trying to runpast the diver when it was under,only to find it had come up another 50 yards further on.i was weezing like an azmatic pit ponybut got some nice shots for all my efffort.
A lot of birders don't realise the time photographers put in at home afterwards.The Diver for instance,i spent 2 hours getting 200 shots,but when i got home it took 4 hours to sort,process,and get about 6 good ones ,to send to Ian for the site,and to send to my freinds,who like to see my shots,so that photographer taking the phalarope was probably still working on them shots when all the birders there were out with thier families having a meal ,or just relaxing watching telly.In general it takes twice as long messing at home with the photos,as the time actually birding so think on when everyone is complaining about the shutter nutter firing a thousand shots off ,at a yellow legged gull,in truth hes working his nuts off ,so everyone can see how these birds look.

I went to see the Phalarope - kids in tow [and ordered to stay on the path and keep quiet which they did thankfully!] first thing this morning en route to their dancing classes!

It was an amazing experience to see a bird so completely oblivious - I got some record shots from about 12m when it swam my way and even when someone else got to within about 5m it didn't seem too spooked. The light was poor first thing and I only ever want record shots without disturbing the birds but I did really cringe when the other chap went quite so close, if he'd stayed still and waited it would have come to him!

I've witnessed some pretty poor behaviour a couple of time now but not always by photographers so I guess its all down to the individuals no matter what they're carrying scope or lens wise!

Having seen the Grey Phal yesterday as I was at Seaforth anyhow, I seriously doubt our 'photographic friends' could have disturbed this individual. It was then, and I believe certainly was earlier today atleast also, oblivious to those watching it and was swimming right up to folk, blinkin' long lenses or not.

As Pete Berry put, it was 'strokeable' at times of it's own accord. Sometimes birders can get the wrong impression of photographers when in instances like this (and last years Steppe Grey Shrike in Lincolnshire) the bird comes to them yet birders misinterpret it as typical photographer behaviour, harassing the subject. They're not all bad, but some of them...

Pallid Swift appeared with large group of Common Swifts yesterday afternoon - just ahead of rain. Bears out Rob's theory!

At Seaforth 800+ Common Terns joined by 1 Arctic, 1 Little and 1 Roseate Tern.

My theory stands!

Perhaps it never left - just that there may have been a few more birders today looking for the Terns??

Simon Glinn wrote:

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It's reported as back tonight ...

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Tim Wilcox wrote:

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It would then be picked up again high up above the line of the cranes where it sometimes seemed to 'hover' and jink. The flight was more varied and acrobatic than that of the regular Swifts present.

Tim

The flight pattern as you described it was exactly how I saw it - quite distinctive.

-- Edited by sid ashton on Wednesday 13th of May 2009 01:09:33 PM

Rob Smallwood wrote:

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My theory is that this bird is associating with local swifts, so may hang around for a while - no idea if common & Pallid ever hybridise - if so watch out for some really tricky id's in the autumn.

Many swifts must have passed through the area whilst this one has been here...

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Of course posting this was it's cue to depat.....

sid ashton wrote:

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But questions for eveyone - we know that Swifts live on the wing - some of these birds including the Pallid have been around Crosby/Seaforth for more than a week now. There is obviously plenty for them to eat - how long are they likely to stay? - without being specific are there suitable nesting sites around the area? Just a couple of questions I have been asking myself whilst cutting the grass since I got home

Anyone any suggestions as to their next possible move?

-- Edited by sid ashton on Saturday 9th of May 2009 04:43:00 PM

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Hi Sid. There will be swifts over the area all summer with plenty of possible nest sites in the area. Some interesting comments on UK Swifts about the habits of the Pallid. One member reckons that the bird is 'roosting' over the lake and coming down to lower levels early and late and staying at lower levels when it's overcast. Don't know how that fits in with what people on here have noticed, but if it's true I'm hoping for poor weather when I'm at home next Tuesday.

Geoff if you think I had a long wait there was a bloke with a big lens in the car park who I overheard telling his mate that he would get some decent shots when the Swifts settled on the bushes he's probably still waiting.

But questions for eveyone - we know that Swifts live on the wing - some of these birds including the Pallid have been around Crosby/Seaforth for more than a week now. There is obviously plenty for them to eat - how long are they likely to stay? - without being specific are there suitable nesting sites around the area? Just a couple of questions I have been asking myself whilst cutting the grass since I got home

Anyone any suggestions as to their next possible move?

-- Edited by sid ashton on Saturday 9th of May 2009 04:43:00 PM

Couldn't resist another look at the Pallid Swift - arrived Crosby 06.15 had to wait until 09.00 but well worth the wait - the bird flew off the marina into the reserve directly over our heads. If anyone else is going over today there are a lot more Common Swifts about but same as on Wednesday it does seem to keep itslf separate from the pack - otherwise would be tricky to pick out.

Yep, Pete that's how it goes sometimes I shall have to be content with yesterday's good sightings - just a pity that our friend didn't see the bird today - she missed the Osprey as well

I went across tonight - left it far too late but it was showing against the grey storm clouds and the sides of the warehouse well from 8.25pm until I gave up at about 8.45pm. Spoke to a couple of chaps who'd been watching it since 6pm so you were unlucky Sid.

Eventually managed to get over to Crosby this afternoon - good views of the Pallid Swift at the Northern End of the marina and then over the reserve- strange to see a "brown" Swift to start with but then able to distinguish the diagnostic features.

Also several White Wags, Wheatear, Black Redstart(f) and one of those little birds that we don't mention for now - all on the grass safely "behind bars" on the reserve and Little Gulls and Common Tern over.

-- Edited by sid ashton on Wednesday 6th of May 2009 06:43:34 PM

Present fot it's 5th day, a record in the UK (for a healthy bird, ie. not taken into care). Get down there, only 40 mins from Chorlton, it wont be around forever. It came so close you couldn't focus your bins at times and could be picked out with the naked eye. It almost knocked my hat off and parted my hair after Rob & Sonia left this morning .

-- Edited by Pete Hines on Monday 4th of May 2009 11:38:06 PM

Rob Thorpe wrote:

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Great views of the Pallid Swift at 11:40 today near the marina

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You must have been there when Sue F and I were there. They were good views - much easier to find our first Pallid Swift than I thought it would be!

I too caught up with the Pallid Swift yesterday around 7pm (I must have just missed you Rob!!)

As Rob says, it did exactly the same for me by following the Common Swifts around the Marina and then following them towards Seaforth where it gave great views as it almost hung overhead.

You really need to go and see this bird to appreciate the difference as there really is no comparison when seen well!!!

It stood out like a "sore thumb" with it's sandy brown plumage and shows much more white on it's face than a Common Swift.

Caught up with this bird this afterrnoon/evening at the second attempt - awesome views of a cracking bird, and distinguishable at long range whilst loosely associating witha bout 10 - 15 Common Swift.

A UK first for me, and I'd always imagined my first would be a dodgy fly past at some east coast site!

It's all down to the individual point of view obviously, but when I saw a pallid at Spurn a few years ago (not twitched as I was on an RSPB trip) I wrote in my notes that it was
'Britain's most unwanted' and a bird 'indentified mostly by the calendar' (it was 30th October). There was nothing to distinguish it from 'common' swift, no amusing behaviour, no spectacular colours, no remarkable calls. If it had not been seen from above (a small cliff) by a few people at the same time, it could well have been unacceptable to the rarities panel.

I suppose there is also a subtle difference between a memorable sighting and a memorable bird. Pallid swift is certainly not in the latter class you must admit. Alpine swift: now that's another thing altogether.