Starting as of yesterday, the Jays are visiting the oak tree opposite my house to take the acords, which they then bury in the school playing field. I never see them except at this acorn harvest time!
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Judith Smith
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Lightshaw hall Flash is sacrosanct - NO paths please!
A heron uses the shed roof behind our garden from which to launch surprise attacks on a Koi pond a few houses down - impressive birds up close - unless you're a Koi
Added sparrowhawk (m) and strangely a heron to my list today!
Heron scared the bejesus out of me as it was sat on the garage as i opened the back door, I can only think the upturned discarded paddling pool full of rain water caught it's attention........
I maybe wrong (it was a long time ago) though I recall Bryan Bland dashing home to his Cley residence to try to scope the Little Whimbrel, in August '85, to add to his garden list !.
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Ian, I've not been on-line since the weekend and thought I'd better sort out some confusion, for what it's worth. Me and Mr Woosey obviously got our wires crossed as we spoke on our mobiles from opposite sides of Scotman's on Saturday. I didn't see the Avocets from my dad's garden, so unfortunately dipped in that respect, I only watched them from the corner of Scotman's near to Rosley Road.
This raises several questions - should I have dashed to my dad's garden to add it to the garden list, or would that have been a bit too sad a thing to do (I think so).
I did sneak a look from the garden, but the Avocets had just flown off by then.
Ian, you can add Firecrest, which I saw in the garden on 12th March and also Linnet - from some old notebooks I was trawling through.
I realise this almost certainly won't be of interest to anybody else, but thought I'd better come clean
I personally don't put heard on any of my lists either. The main reason being the obvious one that i didn't see it! I've been on a guided walk around a well known (non Manchester) birding spot to be told "that was a whitehroat singing" when it was very obviously a sedge warbler. I enjoy seeing birds -even more so when I ID them by song and prove myself right when I find it. I suppose everybody is 100% sure that they always get it right on the calls then? I know i've been wrong. I've heard lesser whitethroats in Rochdale a few times but not seen one yet, even though i've seen them elsewhere. It's not on my Rochdale list. as it wouldn't feel right, so it's a personal thing I think everyone can keep lists of whatever they want for their own enjoyment but if you want to share or compare then surely seeing is the way to compare. After all, there are plenty of county birds that need visual descriptions to be accepted or will we soon be accepting sound recordings! I hope nobody has got one of Ian's telephone red grouse on their list! ( I've got birdsongs on my phone too!) Cheers Steve
I PERSONALLY don`t include `heard only` on any of my lists. I stick to this to such an extent that last year, when the Quails were at Sinderland Green, I went three mornings on the run (on site at 05.30 !) to actually SEE the buggers. I`d heard them calling of course, but on the third morning perseverence paid off and I saw one in flight. Quail being now a proud addition to my County List. Another example is that I heard Crossbills calling the other morning in Walker Fold Wood - but they aren`t on my list !
Suppose it`s all down to personal preference though
"as it's a list of species you have observed (=seen and/or heard in the county)." "Observe...to watch carefully" Perhaps I chose the wrong word, I should have used 'recorded'.
As you say, for website purposes, there should be consistency, but consider the following scenario:
Your nice Golden Oriole belting out a bit of song but won't show itself, it's in a private or inaccessible woodland, nobody gets to see it. Is it recorded in the bird report for that year? Of course it is! It's on the county list for the year, it would be on mine to! Now, that's consistency.
" as it's a list of species you have observed (=seen and/or heard in the county).
Observe...to watch carefully
As I've said in the past, county lists are entirely dependant on what the individual counts on his or her lists, it's not my place to even try to dictate what we should or indeed shouldn't be able to count but for the sake of the lists on the website I believe some continuity between the lists should be in order. If not, what's to stop anyone counting a county rarity they never bothered to submit when others do and only count those that get accepted, what about someone who puts in hours to see a particulaly sculking bird in order to be able to count it and someone who wanders up to the same bird, hears it briefly and also gets to count it, where's the fairness in that? I'm more than willing to listen to what everyone out there thinks, should we be able to count heard only birds on our county lists? I'd add a new bird straight away, so you could say I have a vested interest in the whole debate For me though, heard onlys shouldn't be countable, sure it's staggeringly frustrating to hear a Nightjar and not be able to count it or a nice Golden Oriole belting out a bit of song but won't show itself but isn't that where fieldcraft and especially percevierance come in to play
"Heard only species are definitely not countable on your county list."
Er, why not? OK, not really any of my business as I no longer live in Gtr Manchester. I count 'heard onlys' on my Hampshire list. I think most people do, as it's a list of species you have observed (=seen and/or heard in the county).
Ian McKerchar wrote: "heard only species are definately not countable on your county list (otherwise I'd be able to include Corncrake!). "
In that case Ian, my county list is reduced by two, as I'd included heard-only Nightingale at Pennington and presumably the same Corncrake that you heard.
I feel like a Tour de France cyclist who's failed a drug-test........
I don't suppose anybody else would care what I hapen to have seen in GM, but if I'm posting it on here, then I'd like to keep it all above board, etc. I know that many people find the lists tedious, but they are just a bit of fun and can be of some interest. Before this web-site began, though I knew which species I had seen in GM, on my local patch, etc, I never actually counted them up in to a total. Posting the lists can be an inspiration as to what it's posible to see out there if you can put the time in, without taking the actual listing side of it too seriously.
Roll-on the next Corncrake and Nightingale in the county.......
apart from the usual wrens, dunnocks, robins, blue tits etc my garden list includes:
goldcrest (regular visits every winter), heron, grey wagtail, nesting linnets (late 80's, and havent seen them in the area since), nesting mistle thrush, goldfinch, coal tit, long tailed tits, kestrel (caught a starling on the lawn), sparrowhawk, buzzard (flyover, does that count?), waxwing (in neighbours garden directly across the road, can i count that?, had great views from my bedroom window anyway).
i think thats pretty good considering the size of my garden and surroundings. i should do a proper list, ive never really thought to write them down.
Can't remember where I originally heard of the record, so I double checked on the Birdguides BBRC Records column before posting it on this thread.
Also of historical local interest and worthy of mention is the 1967 Little Crake at Withington Sewage Farm ( now Chorlton Ees ) from 11th to 15th November. This is billed under Lancashire & North Merseyside rather than Greater Manchester. I forgot to include this record when putting the Chorlton Ees gen on the site guide on this website. I recall being told the story of this bird by John Shakeshaft when I first starting birding late '75. The pond it was at is still there .
-- Edited by Pete Hines at 22:01, 2007-09-22
-- Edited by Pete Hines at 22:04, 2007-09-22
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pete I am amazed at the old report, where do you get your info from, all i have for manchester is the county reports gonig back to 90,s and the old 1984 Breeding birds in Greater Manchester by holland Spence and sutton. Bit obsessed with old records and books??
I heard a Green Sand call twice whilst walking through the Hulme 'bull-rings' at night in August '83, I thought that was amazing, but not as amazing as the Sooty Tern picked up exhausted in Hulme on 9th October 1901.
-- Edited by Pete Hines at 01:21, 2007-09-22
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Wish I had seen the Tawny from my garden, but as it counts anyway thats a relief. Just realised I've also missed off Redwing and Field fare, Siskin Mistle Thrush and Redpoll (but I couldnt tell you whether it was Mealy or Lesser so best not have that one). Bit of a re-count in order I think.
As for seen from Dean, well my Buzzard, and Pink feet were definitely not 'overs' but 'from'. I think thats where you would have to apply your own distance criteria.
Cheers all.
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Just to clear it all up. We can count flyovers and heards. What about "seen from" ie distant birds seen through bins or scope but viewed from within the boundary of one's garden,or bedroom window for that matter. Or do they have to actually "fly over" the garden?
If i put a hanging basket in the boot of my car can i count birds seen from the car too
I'd count heard records if I kept a current garden list as I've trees right up against my windows and can't see more than a few metres at the most (plus they haven't been cleaned for over a year!), though heard Mute Swans going over whilst in bed the other morning and heard a Ring-necked Parakeet a year or two ago.
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flyovers are countable (on garden lists) but heards are not
Definately a little too hasty with that comment there and on reflection I think heard garden birds should be countable, as long as you've seen the species before in the county, as heard only species are definately not countable on your county list (otherwise I'd be able to include Corncrake!). So yes, why not add 'keewick' Craig, others have flyovers on theirs, like Redwings and Ringed Plovers at night, a Firecrest that just wouldn't show itself and many others, how could you not count a flyover, heard only Whimbrel (I flippin' would) and I do believe I counted my first garden record of Willow Tit from a heard only (seen 'em since though)!
Brain obviously stuck in neutral before I really thought the original post through
County lists are of course always up to the individual as to what they wish to include, but for the sake of those on the website and for continuity, flyovers are countable (on garden lists) but heards are not
Keewick BooHoo
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County lists are of course always up to the individual as to what they wish to include, but for the sake of those on the website and for continuity, flyovers are countable (on garden lists) but heards are not
Craig ,I was going to ask this question myself as I am in the process of doing my Garden list at the moment. I tend to agree with what Geoff thinks in that flyovers and birds heard should also count towards the total.
As for attracting birds into the garden , I have built two ponds which have pulled in Pied,Yellow and Grey wagtails, plenty of herons and a couple of BH gulls over the years. I also put food out all year round and yes it does cost a fortune and as I normally work 7 days a week I probably miss most of the action around my feeders but I still get to see some decent birds especially in winter ,GS woodpeckers, Siskin, Goldcrest and even a Willow tit though only 3 sightings in the 10 years that I have lived here.
Flyovers include Pinkfeet ,Buzzard and a Curlew and they will be included in my Garden list.
craig it,s your list put what you want on it,fly overs,heards,etc, they all seem fair game on the garden list,it,s the first time i looked at that section and i,ve just started to compile my list,living closer to wigan flashes than mr woosey has given me an oppertunity to be above him on at least one list.
best so far bullfinch,yellowhammer,sparrowhawk in the garden over, common tern pinkfeet and years ago ringneck parakeet which i thought were released birds but now i think not.
Just out of curiosity I had a look at the garden list section tonight. I note Ian M has Ian W's list down as a tongue in cheek total.
Well, my list would be considerably less than Ian W's unless I can count fly overs and birds seen from the garden which I presume is the case if Dave Broome is counting stuff seen on Scotsmans (or is he classing the flash as the pond in the garden of chez broome???)
Even including flyovers its not that great. can we include heard from as well??
If you want to include it Ian here it is
In the garden: Blue Tit, Gt Tit, Blackbird, Redstart , Grey Wagtail, Wood Pigeon
Once thought I'd heard LEO but couldnt be definite.
31 including the Tawny Owl.
If anyone has any tips on how to encourage the little blighters into a garden, other than spending a small fortune on bird food/tables/wildlife friendly gardening etc let me know. I've tried all these to no avail and have now just about given up.
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, I only watched them from the corner of Scotman's near to Rosley Road. 
, or would that have been a bit too sad a thing to do (I think so). 
