Roost was aborted for me as I was fed up of the single boat criss /crossing the flash than came on at 3pm surely there should be some restriction when a site is used by so many gulls ,that boats should stop and hour before dusk ,and I think at one time single boats were not allowed to sail on their own ,as there is no rescue boat on if anything goes wrong,seems there are no rules these days .
08:00 - 10:30 in Horrocks hide this morning was very quiet. However, the sight of 30 adult Great Black-backed Gulls at the end of the spit is something I don't think I've ever seen before in more than 20 years birding the site. Also nice to see 6 Pochard, which also feels a bit weird to be saying, seeing as not that long ago I'd have been counting into 3 figures.
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Quick stroll for about an hour on the south side of Penny 9.30-10.30 mainly Aspull Common end
Willow Tit - 4 with 2 behaving like a pair
Siskin - 7 in a tall bush on edge of wildflower meadow which has quite a few alders. They were not feeding at the time - kind of roosting and preening, making a pleasant twittering noise! I don't think I'd have spotted them otherwise. They sounded a bit like a rather muted group of House Sparrows!
Goldfinch - charm of about 25 feeding on ash keys. Treecreeper - 1 Goldcrest - 1 Long Tailed Tit - 5
Late news for yesterday evening when a third winter Caspian Gull roosted which appeared to probably be the ringed bird from Redgate, Gorton X106 (though ring not seen).
Also an adult Yellow-legged Gull and Mediterranean Gull.
Good Gull roost tonight at Pennington Flash with Colin Davies and Phil Rhodes were we managed to find 2 Iceland Gulls ,1 Adult and 1x 3rd Winter an Adult Yellow Legged Gull and a Adult Mediterranean Gull ,so even though it was freezing it was a good afternoon .
pictures the Adult and 3rd winter Iceland Gull digiscoped and a landscape of the roosters
3rd win Iceland gull in the roost tonight, also adult winter Mediterranean gull and leucistic black-headed gull. A very small roost tonight, and nothing came very close to Green Lane.
I managed to spot the 2 iceland gulls in the roost, I was viewing from next to horrocks hide opposite from Colin & phil. Also a peregrine falcon was over the flash probably keeping an eye on the lapwings that were flying around. Sparrowhawk low over the flash also.
Late morning I managed just 1 Oystercatcher. Also a lone Pink foot over the flash. 10 Goldeneye, 20 Goosander, 1 Little Egret, 1 male Pochard and 5+ Siskin at the feeding station hide, or whatever it
Third winter Iceland gull in the roost again tonight, also a possible adult yellow-legged gull.
Late on, 20 minutes after sunset, we picked up a very odd looking gull, basically an immature (1st win?) lesser black-back but with a bright white head. Probably just an abberrant lesser black-back but worth a look if anybody is doing the roost in the next few days. Photo attached.
As I see it there is certainly no argument over the identification of this gull, discussion yes, but either way if it evolves any further could it please be continued on a separate thread on the discussion forum where it could be continued at length as necessary
Without wanting to get into the argument over this particular individual bird, for those birders who saw the bird at Sale WP recently, the fact that it was SO white-headed made it easy to locate amongst the other large gulls and then enable a study of all the other features to confirm the identity. (Without the need of photographic evidence).
I have probably seen tens of thousands of Yellow-legged Gulls in range in Europe over the last 20 years but have struggled to get DEFINITE sightings in the UK - they are not as easy as people may now think.
I am happy that its a Yellow Legged Gull ,in fact ive no daupts about it ,I have been watching it for 2 weeks plus ,unfortunately I have been the only one apart from Phil doing the roosts in the main this Winter and I am sure I am capable of identifying adult Yellow Legged Gull and other ages of YLG in the field , also Caspian as well which I have found the last 3 at least at the flash. Don't always go off the one photograph posted lighting conditions can play tricks I have sent shots of that bird in between LBBG, and Argentatus Herring and its spot on in Mantle colour in the correct light ,Ian has had many more pics of this bird off me and has posted it in the Gallery also as Yellow Legged Gull on the main site ,Phil has also seen it on several occasions without me and its been posted as Yellow legged Gull . It Looks nothing like a Hybrid either to me but I have watched it for hours in the field.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 03:29:17 PM
Hi John
Please don't take offence at my questioning, and even more importantly please don't stop posting pictures, and more than one for tricky birds - do you have others of this bird? The whole point of internet fora is to promote discussion and our knowledge of the ecology and identification of these birds improves iteratively one bird at a time. I am not a gull guru but see enough of them to know they are very hard and routinely send images to friends to get a second opinion, in your case because if it is a YLGU then I needed to rethink my search image for them. My interest is in understanding the community ecology of gulls and where they are in space and time. It would be very useful if more rather than less people posted pics of purported YLGUs as we would expect them to be potentially outnumbered by hybrids which superficially resemble YLGulls https://www.flickr.com/photos/fyldebirdclub/28456601856/ sometimes very closely https://www.flickr.com/photos/fyldebirdclub/39426451414 and until we can identify them with some certainty these patterns of occurrence are occluded.
A cursory glance at images of YLGUs from Iberia in Dec-Jan shows that birds with head streaking would be very unusual - https://ebird.org/media/catalog?bmo=12&taxonCode=yelgul1&mr=MCUSTOM&emo=1&q=Yellow-legged%20Gull%20-%20Larus%20michahellis and your bird also has a domed head which is more typical of LBBG - in addition to the subtleties of primary patterns. Mantle colour may be a good way of finding candidate YLGUs but it isn't a foolproof way of confirming that they are YLGUs. I saw quite a few in the states - see some purported hybrids here - https://ebird.org/media/catalog?bmo=12&taxonCode=x00057&mr=MCUSTOM&emo=1&q=Herring%20x%20Lesser%20Black-backed%20Gull%20(hybrid)%20-%20Larus%20argentatus%20x%20fuscus from the same period all with extensive head streaking.
Some discussion of Pete's birds - thanks for posting - would be instructive...
best
-- Edited by Alex Lees on Thursday 20th of December 2018 10:40:25 AM
Hi folks, I've read with interest this discussion on Yellow-legged Gulls or hybrids. I have visted the Viridor waste management centre at Atherton on a few occasions recently. There have been a few hybrids resembling Yellow-legged Gulls present there. I guess just like the 3rdw Iceland Gull that uses the Viridor site and then roosts at Pennington Flash, then maybe these hybrids may do the same? I've attached a few pics of the hybrids from Atherton. I realise these may be more appropriate on the Atherton thread, but thought they may provide some reference to the discussion on this thread,
Also the head streaking looks a bit too much for this time of year,yl gulls can show a bit of" pencil streaking" but only earlier in the autumn,by now it should really be white headed and the white mirrors look a little too big for yl gull?
I am happy that its a Yellow Legged Gull ,in fact ive no daupts about it ,I have been watching it for 2 weeks plus ,unfortunately I have been the only one apart from Phil doing the roosts in the main this Winter and I am sure I am capable of identifying adult Yellow Legged Gull and other ages of YLG in the field , also Caspian as well which I have found the last 3 at least at the flash. Don't always go off the one photograph posted lighting conditions can play tricks I have sent shots of that bird in between LBBG, and Argentatus Herring and its spot on in Mantle colour in the correct light ,Ian has had many more pics of this bird off me and has posted it in the Gallery also as Yellow Legged Gull on the main site ,Phil has also seen it on several occasions without me and its been posted as Yellow legged Gull . It Looks nothing like a Hybrid either to me but I have watched it for hours in the field. I don't know who Chris Batty is either? probably a Gull Guru ,but I don't know him ,but he may know me ,I don't know everyone by name,same with Alex ,I may have met him but not sure, as I never seem to see anyone but Phil at the roost. ,and I tend to tread my own path and spend my hours in the field normally on my own . So probably best to for me not to post single shots of Yellow legged Gull in a post on here and just send them in with a Rarities form as I normally do,and as everyone else should ,no exceptions as we all make mistakes. I probably won't in future bother adding pics of rare gulls to the forum ,I will just do like everyone else and just post what I see as, I don't see many pics from many of the others claimed . I have seen Yellow Legged Gulls with head streaking at this time of year before.
p.s
I do know Chris Batty, I just had to think for a min ,I have spoken to him in the past but if hes had my picture its not come off me ,so someone else must have sent it him,which without my permission is not right.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 03:29:17 PM
Also the head streaking looks a bit too much for this time of year,yl gulls can show a bit of" pencil streaking" but only earlier in the autumn,by now it should really be white headed and the white mirrors look a little too big for yl gull?
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 14th of December 2018 08:07:53 AM
I noticed the middle Yellow-legged Gull pic the other day which looks better for an adult LBBGxHEGU hybrid, given the head pattern and head shape, Chris Batty agreed and added 'long white tip to P10 is rare in michahellis away from the eastern Med' - hybrids seem to be far more abundant (by an order of magnitude) in the NW than actual YLGUs, which is surprising considering how regular YLGU is as close as the Peak District in late summer.
Day spent round here today. Bulk of the gull roost too distant to pick over with bins, but nothing unusual amongst those close enough in. Around the nature reserve and then up to the west bay and back: