Hello All,( or at least those with little else to do but to read this). It's early on Christmas Eve, and rather than be out BIRDING (which is what I should be doing), I find myself apologising for my earlier unwarranted sideswipe at Marmite. My earlier effort was too hastily conceived, and spewed out because I was rushing things. The position in this household was that instead of (quote)"playing on that damn computer again," I should have been hoovering all around, or up on the roof replacing lost slates, before the arrival of "In- laws." (That terminology in itself is grounds for further digression; - what if you were expecting the "In - Laws" for Christmas, and "Out -Laws" turned up? - Mind you I dare say that some can be both). Anyway, back to the point, - please substitute instead of "Marmite sandwiches," a "shiny brown binoculars case, and wearing a collar and tie." Before leaving Marmite though, it is something I never could bring myself to taste, it's on my "things always to avoid list," up there with tripe. From it's appearance I have always feared it might taste similar to something that ,in a certain manner of speaking, rhymes with it. Also, doesn't it have a weird name? It should be more comfortably at home as the name of one of those biblical tribes expelled by Moses and his easily led accomplices, the Children of Israel. You know the sort of thing - ......."and God said unto Moses, " Go forth and smite the Marmites and all their doings...." and so on.
As for tripe, I dare say it has been savoured by more Birdwatchers than Birders? I once hung some tripe out for the birds, next to the nuts and more familiar stuff, and was impressed to see they showed enough good judgement to totally ignore it. It did though, after three weeks, attract an inquisitive rat and a very odd dog. The dog had all white bubbly stuff round it's muzzle, and I had to ask if it had eaten some tripe with this being the result, or worse, was it about to, with the foam some dire indication of an alarming precondition. I bolted the back door and hoped it would go away. I really must break off now, I am told to get up onto the roof and fix those slates. I sometimes thing the Missus harbours the notion that if I spend enough time up there, one of these days in my advancing years, I may forget to come down. I could start a "roof list," but Christmas Eve isn't that good for passage migrants. - Enough of this verbal tripe. -- Merry Christmas to all Birders and Birdwatchers in the county of my birth .
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Challenges are inevitable, but failure is optional.
Me too off 'at a tangent' - but if it hadn't have been for sites like this, I'd never have seen the G.W. Egret on Walmsleys Pond... well, this site and another forum whom a member of kindly got in touch.
Yes it makes for 'easy birding' but I wouldn't have been mooching in that area usually (although I do go now and again with my dogs) - so it helpe me a hell of a lot.
I agree Steve marmite butties for me, and to be honest sitting on a stick smoking a pipe seems okay as well, better hide my moleskin cardigan next time I am out.
I think you've summed up the situation quite nicely there, Mike. "Birdwatching" had a rather "namby-pamby" (as you so succinctly put it) image, so when people came across the American term "birding" they thought "this sounds a bit more macho, let's call ourselves Birders"!
Birders do exactly what birdwatchers used to do - they are no more or less macho or namby-pamby than they ever were - they just carry a few more gadgets! It's just a change of name like haulage contractors becoming purveyors of logistics solutions!
Just one thing though - what's wrong with Marmite sandwiches?
I see we are on to terminology and "in vogue" birding parlance. Speaking for myself, I rather like "birding" and being a "birder" to the extent that for years I have winced at the rather passive namby pamby terms "birdwatcher" or "birdwatching"; these terms seem so passive, and in my mind conjure up an image of some archetypal old codger ( typically a retired colonel type) sat on a stick seat puffing on a pip and getting all enthusiastic about very little. as he peers through an old fashioned extendible 'scope. typically such caricatures always sat in hides with marmite sandwiches. "Birding" on the other hand carries some hint of pending action at hand. Yes it did come from America, some good things really do from time to time. You can imagine Arnold Schwartznegger being a birder, muscles bulging in his short sleeved camouflage gear as he edges through virgin forest and risks conflict with the Columbian Farc, intent on seeing Yellow-crowned Whitestart, - and God help anyone who gets in his way. that's real birding man! Mind you at my age, when speaking to non birding ladies who ask where I might be off to, I do feel the need when going on a "birding holiday" to S.E.Asia or similar, to qualify things slightly to avoid any misconstrual, i.e. that it is feathered ones I have in mind, otherwise it is all too easy to be seen as an undesirable ( or desirable as the case may be).
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Challenges are inevitable, but failure is optional.
I first remember hearing the term 'birding' in 1986 on Scilly and still have the badge 'I'd rather be birding' from that wonderful first visit somewhere in the loft.
I'm a birder and I go out birding, I'm not a birdwatcher, otherwise I'd be a birdstudier, birdseeker or birdlover (eurgh!!!). No, I'm a birder, hence...
Manchester Birding for Birds, Birders and Birding in Greater Manchester
I've resisted the temptation for long enough, but I've just got to say that there only is "Modern Birding". In "ye olden days" it wasn't called BIRDING! I hate the use of the word bird as a verb! It seems to mean everything from twitching to ringing, so it doesn't really mean anything at all. And it's American in origin - I've nothing against Americans, but before too long we'll be talking about "banding" birds rather than ringing and looking for Loons rather than Divers.
That should set this thread off on another tangent with a bit of luck!!!
This thread has taken a tangent I was not expecting, in fact has anyone read the article I was refering too in the original message?
I have read the full article Paul, and I really don`t see what they are ultimately on about !? The article ends with these lines ;
"It`s (Modern Birding) not rubbish - it really is a great time to be a birder."
These guys, if you follow their Web-site, are hardened birders who do nothing else apart from trying to find rare birds, mostly in Norfolk, seemingly as a full-time profession. My point is that it`s ok for them to spout off about `everyone else should be out all the time finding their own rarities instead of chasing other peoples` - we all know that that isn`t always practical or possible - especially in our county.....Now, what all that has to do with `Modern Birding` as opposed to `Old Birding` God only knows !
What I myself was saying was that people should do whatever they like.....
Thought we could lighten up these dark evenings......
But the gist of it is stop chasing other peoples birds and find your own, and after a year of running around like a mad-man it sounds like good advice.
The punkbirders mission statement is ' We advocate finding your own stuff. We advocate getting out there as much as you can. We dont advocate going for every single lesser scaup that turns up, or standing around at a twitch waiting for whatever else turns up'
Keep Birding
Appologies if I caused the wayward discussion, what I was basically getting at is that John at Pennington is as good an example as anything/anyone of the Punkbirders mission statement being true.
-- Edited by Craig Higson at 13:00, 2008-12-19
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No one on their death bed ever said they wished they'd spent more time at work. http://bitsnbirds.blogspot.co.uk
This thread has taken a tangent I was not expecting, in fact has anyone read the article I was refering too in the original message?
I do believe modern birding is different and aspects of it can be a little ott, however I believe the old time birders would have given a farthing or two for the information we have nowdays.
infact I recall a story of A W Boyd receiving a telegram informing him of a bird on the Cheshire meres, and he still went for it.
As with all things in life there will always be improvements and changes some good some bad, its my feeling that as Mr Woosey put it college puddings should not tell us what to do, but they can create a disscusion, which is what I was after!
But geoffs summary is fine and I wish you all the best in finding your own birds as well, and as always.........
Must admit, I've been a bit confused by some of the stuff on this thread but I just have to say"well said Geoff",that sums up my feelings totally. Cheers Ian
anyway chaps back to the title of the thread,no it isn,t rubbish.It might be different from the way it used to be done but it is not rubbish..Consider this, I got my RSPB book, a pair of shipping bins and started furtively birdwatching around Horrock,s flash, that was probably going to be the end of it because i,d been bittern hunting and was just about to hang up the bins and try golf,a chance meeting at the wigan RSPB changed things, I discovered county birding,ian,s website, our forum,a pool of knowledge openly shared and available for anyone interested.Anyway I,ll get off my soap box,check the forum for latest sightings,pack me swaro,phone,sat nav,pager(oh no i,ve not done that yet)2 cameras and the collins and go moochin somewhere in gm.Modern Birding is very rewarding.
Interesting this, especially the comment about John Lyon at Pennington. I dont mean this to sound disrespectful (the exact opposite in fact) but John only started birding at Pennington about 8-9 years ago if I remember correctly. In that time though he has got to grips with the common stuff, puts the hours in with Barry, and has found some darn good birds.
I suspect he's becoming somewhat of a Pennington legend in the same vein as Messers McKerchar, Tymon and Hulme. Just shows what can be accomplished with a bit of concerted effort on a site, and the recognition and appreciation you get when you report it to the wider audience.
(Must admit it does hurt though when he keeps adding stuff to his Pennington List that I keep missing. In over 10 years birding at Pennington my best self found is still Glaucous Gull )
sorry craig if you thought i was getting at john,my post now removed was the fact that anyone who can spend so much time at penny will add new and rare birds.i know ,theres no-one not even john who put more hours in on penny than the mid 1970's late 1980's moochers.and we found everything in those days.it was more a pointer at me not john.birding is so frustrating expecially when you can only give about 4 hours a week to it due to work .although i wish john packed a little camera in his bag as a lot of the stuff he's seen has never been photographed in the county The real legends of penny are Frank Horrocks,Charlie Owen,Dave wilson.the pioneers,me and browny,and ian were just raggy arsed kids that used to tag along with them,or i was anyway
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 07:10, 2008-12-17
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 07:41, 2008-12-17
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 17:34, 2008-12-17
Not at all John, I was agreeing with you if anything.
You are of course correct in saying that Frank, Charlie, Dave W etc are the original Guru's of the Flash, but there are names that many flash regulars associate with the site over and above these - namely yourself, Ian, D. Brown, Bill Harrison, Barry and now John.
What I was trying to get across (probably badly) is that someone like John (with little experience when he first started coming to the flash regularly) can become a very good birder by working a local patch, and if you're luck enough and have a good patch, both of which John has, you will rack up the self found rarities.
-- Edited by Craig Higson at 16:43, 2008-12-18
i don't mind how lucky he is as long as he finds summat for me to photograph on saturday,been a bit starved of decent subjects recently
Interesting this, especially the comment about John Lyon at Pennington. I dont mean this to sound disrespectful (the exact opposite in fact) but John only started birding at Pennington about 8-9 years ago if I remember correctly. In that time though he has got to grips with the common stuff, puts the hours in with Barry, and has found some darn good birds.
I suspect he's becoming somewhat of a Pennington legend in the same vein as Messers McKerchar, Tymon and Hulme. Just shows what can be accomplished with a bit of concerted effort on a site, and the recognition and appreciation you get when you report it to the wider audience.
(Must admit it does hurt though when he keeps adding stuff to his Pennington List that I keep missing. In over 10 years birding at Pennington my best self found is still Glaucous Gull )
sorry craig if you thought i was getting at john,my post now removed was the fact that anyone who can spend so much time at penny will add new and rare birds.i know ,theres no-one not even john who put more hours in on penny than the mid 1970's late 1980's moochers.and we found everything in those days.it was more a pointer at me not john.birding is so frustrating expecially when you can only give about 4 hours a week to it due to work .although i wish john packed a little camera in his bag as a lot of the stuff he's seen has never been photographed in the county The real legends of penny are Frank Horrocks,Charlie Owen,Dave wilson.the pioneers,me and browny,and ian were just raggy arsed kids that used to tag along with them,or i was anyway
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 07:10, 2008-12-17
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 07:41, 2008-12-17
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 17:34, 2008-12-17
Not at all John, I was agreeing with you if anything.
You are of course correct in saying that Frank, Charlie, Dave W etc are the original Guru's of the Flash, but there are names that many flash regulars associate with the site over and above these - namely yourself, Ian, D. Brown, Bill Harrison, Barry and now John.
What I was trying to get across (probably badly) is that someone like John (with little experience when he first started coming to the flash regularly) can become a very good birder by working a local patch, and if you're luck enough and have a good patch, both of which John has, you will rack up the self found rarities.
-- Edited by Craig Higson at 16:43, 2008-12-18
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No one on their death bed ever said they wished they'd spent more time at work. http://bitsnbirds.blogspot.co.uk
The real legends of penny are Frank Horrocks,Charlie Owen,Dave wilson.the pioneers,me and browny,and ian were just raggy arsed kids that used to tag along with them,or i was anyway
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 07:10, 2008-12-17
Couldn't agree more John, other than I might put T.Edmondson down as a Pennington Flash legend as well, if not only for all he did in getting birders like Frank to cover the place regularly!
Also the original i think it was 7 who formed the LOS in the Brittania Inn in march 1971 were the originators of local bird recording,around the leigh area.if my memory serves me well,which it doasn't very often these days-these were they 1-FRANK HORROCKS 2-G.W.FOLLOWS 3-HOWARD MAY 4-CHARLIE OWEN 5-TOM OWEN-CHARLIES BROTHER 6-DAVE WILSON 7-ROY RHODES I think local around Leigh birding owes a lot to these 7 ,but everyone since then,and many on these boards,have put just as much effort in as the ones above.strangely in the last 2 weeks ive actually been birding with both Charlie and Dave wilson who are both still active local patchers after more than 40 years.
The real legends of penny are Frank Horrocks,Charlie Owen,Dave wilson.the pioneers,me and browny,and ian were just raggy arsed kids that used to tag along with them,or i was anyway
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON at 07:10, 2008-12-17
Couldn't agree more John, other than I might put T.Edmondson down as a Pennington Flash legend as well, if not only for all he did in getting birders like Frank to cover the place regularly!
Interesting this, especially the comment about John Lyon at Pennington. I dont mean this to sound disrespectful (the exact opposite in fact) but John only started birding at Pennington about 8-9 years ago if I remember correctly. In that time though he has got to grips with the common stuff, puts the hours in with Barry, and has found some darn good birds.
I suspect he's becoming somewhat of a Pennington legend in the same vein as Messers McKerchar, Tymon and Hulme. Just shows what can be accomplished with a bit of concerted effort on a site, and the recognition and appreciation you get when you report it to the wider audience.
(Must admit it does hurt though when he keeps adding stuff to his Pennington List that I keep missing. In over 10 years birding at Pennington my best self found is still Glaucous Gull )
sorry craig if you thought i was getting at john,my post now removed was the fact that anyone who can spend so much time at penny will add new and rare birds.i know ,theres no-one not even john who put more hours in on penny than the mid 1970's late 1980's moochers.and we found everything in those days.it was more a pointer at me not john.birding is so frustrating expecially when you can only give about 4 hours a week to it due to work .although i wish john packed a little camera in his bag as a lot of the stuff he's seen has never been photographed in the county The real legends of penny are Frank Horrocks,Charlie Owen,Dave wilson.the pioneers,me and browny,and ian were just raggy arsed kids that used to tag along with them,or i was anyway
Interesting this, especially the comment about John Lyon at Pennington. I dont mean this to sound disrespectful (the exact opposite in fact) but John only started birding at Pennington about 8-9 years ago if I remember correctly. In that time though he has got to grips with the common stuff, puts the hours in with Barry, and has found some darn good birds.
I suspect he's becoming somewhat of a Pennington legend in the same vein as Messers McKerchar, Tymon and Hulme. Just shows what can be accomplished with a bit of concerted effort on a site, and the recognition and appreciation you get when you report it to the wider audience.
(Must admit it does hurt though when he keeps adding stuff to his Pennington List that I keep missing. In over 10 years birding at Pennington my best self found is still Glaucous Gull )
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No one on their death bed ever said they wished they'd spent more time at work. http://bitsnbirds.blogspot.co.uk
Do a local patch if you want.....twitch if you want....... I do both. I don`t need no college puddings from Norfolk telling me what to do ! They should try birding in a land-locked over-populated urbanized county........
Are College Puddings like Hollands Steak Puddings but for brainy people??,coming from Wiggin you should be an expert on pies and puddings Ian.>
Dean no one is saying dont share the info, in fact its the opposite!what we should be doing is finding your own birds, then shouting from the rooftops that you found it,
Mr Mckerchar got the right idea and Warfy look at their tournament points and list, its more about getting back to basics,instead of watching a bush or a tree for 4 hours waiting for someone elses bird to come out.
As for the Glossy Ibis well I would be shouting that from the top of the highest building in Manchester if I found it. Mikes right as well going to see a rarity is sometimes the best way to brush up on your id skills.
I have just spent a year chasing round Greater Manchester wondering how come every one else keeps finding stuff, what the secret?
Nothing better than finding your own birds but there's nowt wrong with watching a Glossy Ibis someone else found.
I get more of a kick out of finding my own birds and I can't stand crowds of people, however every now and then I get an urge to go and twitch something. And after all, often the easiest method of learning to ID a rarity is to go and see one.
Have you got another pass to Penny Ian when John Lyons finds a Lesser Yellowlegs?
Well said Ian. What are we supposed to do, find our own birds and tell no one? If that's the case what is the point of this forum, or indeed birding magazines and websites that share information?
You get the info and give the info, then it's up to the individual birder how you use it.
Do a local patch if you want.....twitch if you want....... I do both. I don`t need no college puddings from Norfolk telling me what to do ! They should try birding in a land-locked over-populated urbanized county........
Thought we could lighten up these dark evenings......
Just received a copy of Birdwatch issue 199 January 2009, and there is an excellent article on the back page from the lads in Norfolk known as Punkbirders.
Not certain if Ian would be able to reproduce the article on the website,as it makes very interesting reading, there is access to Punkbirders the unsound approach via the links section.
But the gist of it is stop chasing other peoples birds and find your own, and after a year of running around like a mad-man it sounds like good advice.
The punkbirders mission statement is ' We advocate finding your own stuff. We advocate getting out there as much as you can. We dont advocate going for every single lesser scaup that turns up, or standing around at a twitch waiting for whatever else turns up'
Nothing wrong with Twitching as the unsound approach states only two problems with it, First its too easy and second its to hard, full explanation in the article.
, that was probably going to be the end of it because i,d been bittern hunting
)