you were of course quite right to mention it and I'm chuffed that it was in this forum it happened, as it would appear that it is working out just as I had imagined it
See......... the smiley's work too..........brilliant!
I had a conversation with an Audy regular over the bird the other night and during our chat he commented that it is not beyond the realms of possibility of last years Caspian reappearing, especially considering it stayed so long in the county and that it would of course be in either adult or 4th winter plumage- definately worth looking out for.
Wussed out last night as it was raining (poor effort!).
Went back tonight though in gale force wind and had an adult Yellow-legged on resv.1, the smaller bird of the two that have been present recently, but no sign of the interesting gull.
As I said in my 1st post, I didn't think that last night's bird was a cachinnans but a YLG, only I thought that with your bird from last year I'd best mention it incase I was wrong!
You appear to have seen much more detail than I did, so may be in a better position to comment as much of mine is from the photos I took (which are poor), considering I thought it a YLGull, I didn't look to hard at the bird in the field (or on the water rather)!
Last years 3rd winter appeared to have an all white tail, yet dirty markings in the tertials, although these could on occasions be very difficult to make out, so typical gull plumage variability strikes again! When this recent bird was seen at Audy originally it was in the morning, so views were good and the regulars felt it a YLGull but that of course doesn't mean it was the same bird as this one you've had tonight. Some of the regulars should be there tomorrow night with a bit of luck (I'm at work-AGAIN!) and hopefully it might drop in. I usually stick by my first impressions, which of the bird I saw, was of a YLGull but I'm more than happy to be wrong!
Hopefully this could be resolved tommorrow if it drops in- which would be nice!
I thought 3w would show some dirty markings on upper tail? This bird seemed clean. I also thought 3w would have darkish centres to tertials, which this bird didn't have. (Helm Gulls shows 3w as having a marked uppertail and dark centred tertials).
According to Garner's 97 paper in BB, black on the bill can even be present in adult birds (and is a misconception of immaturity), although I would have thought that a large amount of black would be too much for any adult to ever have?
I didn't manage to see any windows in the upperwing primaries (too busy looking at the black spilling over), but having looked at a few online images just now the underside of p10 on my bird seems consistent with a 4w.
have you seen the images of the the 3rd winter YL Gull at Heaton Park Resr. in the 'gullery' on the website? Is this the same bird as you've seen? This bird has already been seen at Audy and as you can see by my comments on the site, although during brief field observations I wasn't suspicious of it's identity, my images of it certainly have a certain Caspian 'feel' to them (observations at Heaton Park were rather distant and in poor light). The bird has also been photo'd at Audy by Rob Adderley (photo's yet to be uploaded to the site) and appears rather more square headed, but still rather 'delicate'.
I still have a nagging doubt over the images, and can't understand why certain pro-caspian features weren't apparent in the field (unless I just didn't notice them!). It's certainly worth a lookout!
As for the ageing, I aged this bird as a third winter due to the very broad, extensive subterminal band (4th winter slightly narrower, more restricted to lower mandible), dark outer wing with no apparent pale outer primary tips (4th winter more adult like in this respect), but of course didn't see the open wings, nor had particularly good views (I certainly wouldn't have claimed it as a Caspian on my views anyway!). Your description of the of the black primaries 'spilling over onto the grt prim covs' sounds a little more 3rd winter to me, but then again I've never seen a 4th winter Caspian (yet!).
Possible 4th-winter cachinnans Audenshaw resv 1 at dusk tonight.
Sat on water throughout. Views distant. Virtually same size as associating LBBs, possibly fractionally bigger. Head pure white, at distance lacking any markings whatsoever. Quite a concave forehead from bill to crown, and also chin, but rear of head smoothly rounded around and down to nape.
Uppers darker than a nearby argenteus (markedly darker than B-h. Gulls) and paler than associating Lessers. Seemed to lack any blue hue, especially compared with nearby argenteus.
Upper-tail clean. Saw spread upperwing once and black spilled over from primaries onto gtr prim coverts and toward alula, hence ageing as 4w.
Small dark eye.
Bill problematic for cachinnans as I thought it was quite broad/stout, but had broad dark subterminal band (maybe not a true band, but just a big dark splodge) and only a small bit of pale at the tip. Subterminal band may have had a hint of red gonys smudged in with the black. Exact colour of bill base impossible to assess, but it was yellowy!
Primaries appeared long and quite pointed, but didn't have the sharp angle out of the water as mentioned in the GM Bird Report description of last winter's 3w cachinnans.
Managed a view and sketch of underside of p10 but will this be relevant in 4w?
Never seen 4w, and only have recent decent experience of adults and a single 2w. To be honest, based on the bill I'd have said it was a 4w Yellow-legged, but with last winter's 3w record I thought I'd better mention it. Managed 2 dross photos which I doubt are any help.
Might check it out tomorrow night, if anyone wants to join me.....
