All 5 species of Owl have different nesting/roosting habitat
I presume they all have similar food preferences, ie "anything that moves"
Are they physiologically adapted to different hunting strategies? That may help identify their niches to avoid confrontation
Obviously, Little Owl has its own niche - diurnal, hunting by sight & likes worms - it isn't going to take on large prey!
Simon Gough said
Tue Feb 9 7:48 PM, 2021
Craig Higson wrote:
Simon Gough wrote:
Of course the real question is whether Craig might have some eye-witness evidence to bring to bear!
Cheers
Simon
I should be so lucky!!!! I think the last Long-eared I saw in GM was probably 15 years ago now So, no I'm afraid not. Just musing on different things whilst my birding is restricted.
Hi Craig,
Not just me spending my time daydreaming then! Last year was the first year since I started birding that I didn't see a Barn Owl. Cannot wait...
In terms of your question, Rob has mentioned a few places which represent examples of owls co-existing and it is interesting to mull on this. One place that springs to mind that certainly held both Barn and Long-eared until recently is Marton Mere. I reckon this must be an example of where a site can support both species, with maybe some subtle variances that allow it. For instance if the Barnies were out before dark but the Long-eareds were strictly nocturnal maybe they would clash less. Sadly, the Long-eareds deserted Marton Mere and I believe this was attributed to disturbance. I wonder if tolerance of disturbance is another factor?
I think I know where Rob is talking about in terms of the site with Tawny and Long-eared close together and I think the place must be sufficiently big that they can avoid each other. Fingers crossed I will get there again in 2021!
Rob Creek said
Tue Feb 9 10:54 AM, 2021
Ive seen all 5 commoner Owls in GM and in other counties, Im certainly not as clued up as others though Craig, but what I can offer is the few instances I have seen different species of Owls hunting together.
The 2nd part of your question states specifically Barn and Long-eared which I havent seen so cant add anything of interest to you in that respect but the 1st part of your question states between Owls so for what its worth then...
Both Short-eared Owls and Barn Owls were observed by myself and others one particular afternoon 5 winters ago in GM hunting together but if memory serves me correctly neither species were seen to interact in any way despite being so close hunting the same area. Likely a good rodent year and probably plenty in that particular area to sustain the Owls for a period of time. The only species being the aggressor were Magpies.
Places like Lunt Meadows in Merseyside also supports both Short-eared and Barn Owls which hunt in close proximity and I cant remember seeing any interaction there either if Im honest.
A site just outside of GM which Ive visited regularly has both breeding Long-eared Owls and Tawny Owls a couple of 100 yards from each other, but although both birds were seen flying around in their respective niche so to speak, I didnt observe them coming close to each other. To be fair in this case there is deciduous woodland, coniferous woodland, moorland, and farmland within a short range so possibly the habitat is such that the species are well supported without ever meeting, who knows.
Just to add, one particular evening, I saw all 5 species of Owl within an hour, 2 at this site and the other 3 nearby whilst en-route in their own space shall we say! Hope this helps
Craig Higson said
Mon Feb 8 9:46 PM, 2021
Paul Heaton wrote:
Certainly a very interesting question and I am sure there will be an answer somewhere , I have tried The Handbook of British birds not much in there , Leslie Browns book British birds of prey New Nat no 60 chap 24 discusses Territory Spacing and Natural population, but this book doesn't deal with owls as such .
There's mention in Raptors a field guide to survey and Monitoring Jon Hardey Humphrey Crick et all but not much
But I feel the answer your looking for might be in OWLS by Mike Toms new naturalist number 125 , I do not have a copy of this but the answer must be in there ?
Keep Birding
Thanks Paul - unfortunately I don't have a copy of that either - maybe someone will read this that does!!!
Craig Higson said
Mon Feb 8 7:30 PM, 2021
Simon Gough wrote:
Of course the real question is whether Craig might have some eye-witness evidence to bring to bear!
Cheers
Simon
I should be so lucky!!!! I think the last Long-eared I saw in GM was probably 15 years ago now So, no I'm afraid not. Just musing on different things whilst my birding is restricted.
Simon Gough said
Mon Feb 8 7:24 PM, 2021
Interesting topic; I had a look through British Birds back issues quickly to see what was in there. A couple of papers about Long-eared Owl were interesting. The only stated competition species for them was Tawny Owl. I expect plenty of people will be aware of this, but apparently Tawny Owls will push Long-eareds away from areas, and indeed predate them. However in the absence of Tawnies, Long-eareds do hunt within woodland. Apparently they also take plenty of small birds. In contrast Barn Owls normally hunt open ground and take mostly rodents. So in the first place you might imagine that where Barn and Long-eareds are occupying the same areas, both the type of prey and hunting locations could be different, which could presumably help them to co-exist, assuming the presence of both habitats.
Other factors that struck me as follows: - The two species would probably nest in different sorts of habitat. Long-eareds nest in tree canopy in denser woodland, but Barnies use holes/cavities in more open country [and boxes of course] ; different conditions and types of woodland. Possibly wouldn't overlap hunting grounds too much in the breeding season - In the winter, Long-eareds live in small colonies or at least roost together whereas Barn Owls are solitary, so perhaps Barnies have to commute to other hunting areas in the winter, if a territory is taken up by multiple Long-eareds, i.e. the many crowd out the few - If a particular territory is rich enough, it might support both anyway, e.g. if it is a good vole year. Both owls can have cyclical populations in alignment with these rodent populations so their numbers might vary in any case, from year to year. Long-eareds do return to favoured locations seasonally and Barn Owls are sedentary but the numbers fluctuating might align to the availability of prey
Of course the real question is whether Craig might have some eye-witness evidence to bring to bear!
Hope this helps to some extent anyway and obviously these are just my thoughts and I'm not claiming any in-depth knowledge.
Cheers
Simon
Craig Higson said
Mon Feb 8 7:24 PM, 2021
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me Craig is looking for information on interspecific competition between Barn and Long-eared Owl, at least that's what he's written anyway and, in GM at least, both owls hunt in similar areas/habitats and often at the same times of day. BWP affords no further information and whilst I've personally seen both owls hunting the same areas at the same times on only a few occasions, I haven't witnessed any such behaviour myself. There are some really rather well informed (much more so than me) contributors to this forum who I'd expect would have much more specific experience on this, so hopefully they may be able to assist publicly or perhaps privately Craig
Correct Ian.
I go to thinking whilst mooching around Three Sisters over the weekend. When I worked there (over 20years ago now) there was often a Long-eared Owl or two roosting on site during winter. At the time the site was still quite young in terms of tree development. As the site has matured, Tawny Owls have now moved in and inevitably the Long-eared variety have departed. I started to wonder if there was any overlap between those two species, but given that Tawny's have a reputation for ousting Long-eared I guessed not. It got me thinking and considering Long -eared links with young plantation woodlands, which often occur on agricultural land, or just generally more open grassland I was wondering if there was a 'overlap' between Long-eared and Barn where Barn Owls may have previously foraged. I guess you could throw Short-eared into the mix too considering the similar habitats often used by those and Barn Owl, especially during winter.
--
-- Edited by Craig Higson on Monday 8th of February 2021 07:25:25 PM
Richard Thew said
Mon Feb 8 6:52 PM, 2021
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me Craig is looking for information on ......
Sorry, must have had suffered from some frostbite of my brain and didn't click in fully.... embarrassing!
Paul Heaton said
Mon Feb 8 5:15 PM, 2021
Certainly a very interesting question and I am sure there will be an answer somewhere , I have tried The Handbook of British birds not much in there , Leslie Browns book British birds of prey New Nat no 60 chap 24 discusses Territory Spacing and Natural population, but this book doesn't deal with owls as such .
There's mention in Raptors a field guide to survey and Monitoring Jon Hardey Humphrey Crick et all but not much
But I feel the answer your looking for might be in OWLS by Mike Toms new naturalist number 125 , I do not have a copy of this but the answer must be in there ?
Keep Birding
Ian McKerchar said
Mon Feb 8 2:49 PM, 2021
Seems pretty clear to me Craig is looking for information on interspecific competition between Barn and Long-eared Owl, at least that's what he's written anyway and, in GM at least, both owls hunt in similar areas/habitats and often at the same times of day. BWP affords no further information and whilst I've personally seen both owls hunting the same areas at the same times on only a few occasions, I haven't witnessed any such behaviour myself. There are some really rather well informed (much more so than me) contributors to this forum who I'd expect would have much more specific experience on this, so hopefully they may be able to assist publicly or perhaps privately Craig
Richard Thew said
Mon Feb 8 2:19 PM, 2021
I hope i understand what your after here as I'm not sure if you mean between species or within the same species. This isn't a field that i know very well on owls, but what I do know is allot is depending upon the circumstances, as in general, different owl species have different behaviour, habits and times for hunting etc. So any conflict would be at best, rare. (Which would be why you can't find any info in google)
Personally, I would say that at this time of year, the weather can have a big influence asto when and where birds hunt for food, and if one species gets too close to anothers hunting ground, such as when one species is forced to hunt for food outside his normal timeframe, then some kind of dispute may on occasion happen.
All birds in some degree, that wouldn't normally cross paths may at times bump into each other. The saying "dog eat dog" in that each one fights for his own survival if they think another is going to be a threat to theirs.
Regarding literature, books etc. I think you'd do best on finding specific life on individual species, such as the life of a barn owl, which would go into various challenges and conflicts they have to deal with in their life and this would go into their sociallife too..
Hope this helps.
-- Edited by Richard Thew on Monday 8th of February 2021 02:28:02 PM
Craig Higson said
Sun Feb 7 8:33 PM, 2021
Does anyone know /has anyone seen any literature on interspecific competition between Owls, specifically Barn and Long-eared, and specifically about competition with foraging habitat. A google search has so far proven negative. Really interested if anyone knows about anything.
All 5 species of Owl have different nesting/roosting habitat
I presume they all have similar food preferences, ie "anything that moves"
Are they physiologically adapted to different hunting strategies? That may help identify their niches to avoid confrontation
Obviously, Little Owl has its own niche - diurnal, hunting by sight & likes worms - it isn't going to take on large prey!
Hi Craig,
Not just me spending my time daydreaming then! Last year was the first year since I started birding that I didn't see a Barn Owl. Cannot wait...
In terms of your question, Rob has mentioned a few places which represent examples of owls co-existing and it is interesting to mull on this. One place that springs to mind that certainly held both Barn and Long-eared until recently is Marton Mere. I reckon this must be an example of where a site can support both species, with maybe some subtle variances that allow it. For instance if the Barnies were out before dark but the Long-eareds were strictly nocturnal maybe they would clash less. Sadly, the Long-eareds deserted Marton Mere and I believe this was attributed to disturbance. I wonder if tolerance of disturbance is another factor?
I think I know where Rob is talking about in terms of the site with Tawny and Long-eared close together and I think the place must be sufficiently big that they can avoid each other. Fingers crossed I will get there again in 2021!
The 2nd part of your question states specifically Barn and Long-eared which I havent seen so cant add anything of interest to you in that respect but the 1st part of your question states between Owls so for what its worth then...
Both Short-eared Owls and Barn Owls were observed by myself and others one particular afternoon 5 winters ago in GM hunting together but if memory serves me correctly neither species were seen to interact in any way despite being so close hunting the same area. Likely a good rodent year and probably plenty in that particular area to sustain the Owls for a period of time. The only species being the aggressor were Magpies.
Places like Lunt Meadows in Merseyside also supports both Short-eared and Barn Owls which hunt in close proximity and I cant remember seeing any interaction there either if Im honest.
A site just outside of GM which Ive visited regularly has both breeding Long-eared Owls and Tawny Owls a couple of 100 yards from each other, but although both birds were seen flying around in their respective niche so to speak, I didnt observe them coming close to each other. To be fair in this case there is deciduous woodland, coniferous woodland, moorland, and farmland within a short range so possibly the habitat is such that the species are well supported without ever meeting, who knows.
Just to add, one particular evening, I saw all 5 species of Owl within an hour, 2 at this site and the other 3 nearby whilst en-route in their own space shall we say!
Hope this helps
Thanks Paul - unfortunately I don't have a copy of that either - maybe someone will read this that does!!!
I should be so lucky!!!! I think the last Long-eared I saw in GM was probably 15 years ago now
So, no I'm afraid not. Just musing on different things whilst my birding is restricted.
Other factors that struck me as follows:
- The two species would probably nest in different sorts of habitat. Long-eareds nest in tree canopy in denser woodland, but Barnies use holes/cavities in more open country [and boxes of course] ; different conditions and types of woodland. Possibly wouldn't overlap hunting grounds too much in the breeding season
- In the winter, Long-eareds live in small colonies or at least roost together whereas Barn Owls are solitary, so perhaps Barnies have to commute to other hunting areas in the winter, if a territory is taken up by multiple Long-eareds, i.e. the many crowd out the few
- If a particular territory is rich enough, it might support both anyway, e.g. if it is a good vole year. Both owls can have cyclical populations in alignment with these rodent populations so their numbers might vary in any case, from year to year. Long-eareds do return to favoured locations seasonally and Barn Owls are sedentary but the numbers fluctuating might align to the availability of prey
Of course the real question is whether Craig might have some eye-witness evidence to bring to bear!
Hope this helps to some extent anyway and obviously these are just my thoughts and I'm not claiming any in-depth knowledge.
Cheers
Simon
Correct Ian.
I go to thinking whilst mooching around Three Sisters over the weekend. When I worked there (over 20years ago now) there was often a Long-eared Owl or two roosting on site during winter. At the time the site was still quite young in terms of tree development. As the site has matured, Tawny Owls have now moved in and inevitably the Long-eared variety have departed. I started to wonder if there was any overlap between those two species, but given that Tawny's have a reputation for ousting Long-eared I guessed not. It got me thinking and considering Long -eared links with young plantation woodlands, which often occur on agricultural land, or just generally more open grassland I was wondering if there was a 'overlap' between Long-eared and Barn where Barn Owls may have previously foraged. I guess you could throw Short-eared into the mix too considering the similar habitats often used by those and Barn Owl, especially during winter.
--
-- Edited by Craig Higson on Monday 8th of February 2021 07:25:25 PM
Sorry, must have had suffered from some frostbite of my brain and didn't click in fully.... embarrassing!
Certainly a very interesting question and I am sure there will be an answer somewhere , I have tried The Handbook of British birds not much in there , Leslie Browns book British birds of prey New Nat no 60 chap 24 discusses Territory Spacing and Natural population, but this book doesn't deal with owls as such .
There's mention in Raptors a field guide to survey and Monitoring Jon Hardey Humphrey Crick et all but not much
But I feel the answer your looking for might be in OWLS by Mike Toms new naturalist number 125 , I do not have a copy of this but the answer must be in there ?
Keep Birding
Seems pretty clear to me Craig is looking for information on interspecific competition between Barn and Long-eared Owl, at least that's what he's written anyway and, in GM at least, both owls hunt in similar areas/habitats and often at the same times of day. BWP affords no further information and whilst I've personally seen both owls hunting the same areas at the same times on only a few occasions, I haven't witnessed any such behaviour myself. There are some really rather well informed (much more so than me) contributors to this forum who I'd expect would have much more specific experience on this, so hopefully they may be able to assist publicly or perhaps privately Craig
Personally, I would say that at this time of year, the weather can have a big influence asto when and where birds hunt for food, and if one species gets too close to anothers hunting ground, such as when one species is forced to hunt for food outside his normal timeframe, then some kind of dispute may on occasion happen.
All birds in some degree, that wouldn't normally cross paths may at times bump into each other. The saying "dog eat dog" in that each one fights for his own survival if they think another is going to be a threat to theirs.
Regarding literature, books etc. I think you'd do best on finding specific life on individual species, such as the life of a barn owl, which would go into various challenges and conflicts they have to deal with in their life and this would go into their sociallife too..
Hope this helps.
-- Edited by Richard Thew on Monday 8th of February 2021 02:28:02 PM
Cheers