Dave Steel wrote:

 

.A conversation developed they always do with likeminded people, true perhaps not in keeping with this site and its aims 

Dave.

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To be fair Dave, this forum and associated website were created and always intended purely to promote birds and birding in the county and beyond wherever possible, so such discussions are well within its scope and aims and entirely encouraged. It's just, we've got well away from the actual initial point of this particular thread and as is often the case, these deviations, as significant as they are, run and run. Feel free to start a new thread for it or indeed contribute to one of the many existing ones as such views are very welcomed.

.A conversation developed they always do with likeminded people, true perhaps not in keeping with this site and its aims but to sum up Pete's rediscovery of the joy and usefulness of working a local patch  I sincerely hope it provides a beacon to follow for many more birdwatchers in GM once this traumatic period is over...for without records (sent to the GMBRG/GMEU) wildlife is but treading the path of the Dodo.

Dave.

All getting a bit off topic here gents...

You've hit on the other problem fair and square David. 98% of the people give not one jot for wildlife and conservation. It's all 'me first, and everything else a distant second'. Anything which gets in the way of the 'I'll do what I like' brigade, is ignored, destroyed, or both. It is only a matter of time (quite a short one) before birdwatching is once more a quirk, a strange hobby carried out by eccentrics who should be treated with an understanding smile, a cheery wave, and a comment (under their breath) - 'They shouldn't let them out unsupervised'. This pandemic will only reinforce mankind's belief that everything must be done to ensure we survive ad infinitum. In fact, that's our only hope - that this could mean the reversal of some of the practices currently wiping the planet clean. Sorry, I  began to daydream there!

An essay I feel would not even scratch the surface of my despair at our wildlife losses which were brought once more into focus by Andy's comments...the local patch Pete has lovingly wandered and reported upon so well during this lockdown was one I wandered as a lad...Frank Horrocks/Les Baird to whom I will be eternally grateful for getting me to wander that bit further west along the Bridgewater Canal from my early years Worsley Woods/Worsley area of the Bridgewater birdwatching. Snipe were commonplace Lapwing were abundant Turtle Dove were the 'norm' in summer...Golden Plover spent some time in autumn in the area with flocks of 400 or so...Redshank bred in the marshy fields...Reed Bunting Nests were almost in every stand of juncus...and so on and so on...

Then when that lull in birdwatching passed...children do grow...I set about the patch (numbered the fields in my own random way well it was only for me as I believed then) now mostly south of the Manchester Liverpool railway line leaving Astley/Bedford to others who visit regularly (why double record an area) and have stayed with it ever since and with 7000 records completed this year alone for the GMBRG and GMEU I hope against hope that working the patch day by day the records gathered 'might' just might help save a landscape that can still support Yellow Wagtail/Lapwing/Reed Bunting/Skylark and more BUT in my darker moment feel that the juggernaut of destructive man will not heed these records and simply keep on concreting away our wildlife...the Corn Bunting I  map have this year not appeared at all...from approx. 21 singing birds to zero over but two decades..it seems there is nothing we can do..diligent patch observations records by the thousand all seem to resound with silence when it comes to 'development'...

In a way to sum up attitudes perhaps an anecdote from a chance meeting today ...socially distancing of course (the new norm) .this was on Croxden Peat Field 65 on my map..

A couple were walking their dog...off its lead...breeding birds nearby..".'they' want to be carful with that landscape...that being the old peat milling devastated site STILL waiting a possible

return to how it could be .a flourishing inland raised Peat Bog...one of the UK's rarest habitats...for if 'they' are not careful the site might end up like that place there... the SBI adjacent...to which I said but that is how it is supposed to be....his reply Oh no what we need is lots of footpaths that we can walk  upon...and none of that marshy peat....yes ANDY THERE IS NO HOPE...but in the morning I will be out Field Notebook at the ready...for the localpatch must go on...

Wish I could concur with Pete, but all that the virus has confirmed to me is that the real disaster is continuing to unfold and gather pace. We all know about the 'dead zones' which occur in certain places of the World's oceans. Well that same phenomenon is slowly creeping over Terra-firma. Taking a little more interest in local birding (because I've always done quite a lot anyway) just confirmed that not just a 'Silent Spring', but a Silent Calendar is perhaps a thing of the future, with only the most common and adaptable birds surviving. Locally, we have lost so many former breeders already over recent decades (yellow wagtail, spotted flycatcher, redstart, wood warbler, lesser-spotted woodpecker, yellowhammer), and the same senario is being played out with a great many other species. We haven't been able to stop the slide of the starling, house sparrow, greenfinch, house martin, swift, etc... After this Spring you can add chaffinch (I found not a single bird within the radius of about 1 mile of home), with swallow not too far behind. It was, in fact, the sheer emptiness of the skies which had the most impact on me during this lockdown (and this included one or two areas a little further afield). I know other contributors have local access to some decent sites and might not fully support this view. They should just count themselves very lucky and pray that urbanisation is held at bay for a while longer. What you should not do is think that once this small inconvenience has faded away that everything is going to be fine. This Spring it has been driven home to me that it is not.

The way I look at it is this, if I get the virus today it's just as bad as it would have been if I had got it 2 months ago. Just because some lockdown measures are starting to be lifted does not mean that the virus will affect me in a different way or that it's any less potent. It's exactly the same virus. The only things that have changed are that there MAY be less of it around in the community which might mean I'm less likely to come into contact with it and if I do the NHS MAY be in a better position to help me. But they're both big gambles which I won't be taking. The NHS has not been overwhelmed so far, yet around 30,000 people in NHS care have already died. There's only so much the NHS can do for you. Therefore I'll be doing my very best to keep my distance from anybody outside my household for a long time yet, not only for my sake, but for the sake of my family, friends and everybody I come into contact with, as well as the front line workers who are putting their own health at risk. 

That doesn't mean I won't be going outside, I've been walking around Pennington Flash virtually everyday since lockdown began for exercise, the sake of my mental health and because it is my nearest open space. However I take precautions. I walk there early morning when there are less people around and if I see people coming towards me along narrow footpaths I either walk the other way or go deep into the woods until they have past. I don't just keep walking towards them as most seem to do. I always assume that people coming towards me have the virus and have no intention of socially distancing. So I avoid them. In the coming weeks I may well go a little further afield but I will always try to avoid people.

As I understand it, the new guidance is that you can now drive to anywhere in England and it doesn't need to be just for exercise it can be for hobbies so long as you can socially distance and so long as you can get home at night. You can't stay overnight anywhere and that includes camping and sleeping in the car. You can't travel by car with somebody from outside your household. There is no law or even guidance that says that birders can't go to Flamborough for a brown shrike, but they are supposed to be socially distancing. Will they travel alone in vehicles, will they stand 2m apart when looking for the bird etc.? Have they considered the implications of having to stop at a service station or breaking down or having an accident? Personally I won't be going anywhere near Flamborough or anywhere like that for a long time yet, I don't care what the bird is.

Unfortunately, as I have experienced myself this week, some birders put seeing and ticking a bird over and above any of the considerations I have discussed above. Some people think that their right to be told about a bird and to see a bird is greater than my right to try to protect the lives of others including my family and front line workers. Photographers are the same, even at the height of the most severe restrictions when driving was only allowed for shopping, work and medical reasons, there was a gathering of photographers from all over the north west to see the osprey on the motorway bridge at Brockholes. Osprey! I've found two myself just this year, even while I've been in lockdown. This obvious disregard for COVID-19 and social distancing guidance is one of the reasons why I'll be avoiding birders for a long while. I don't care if they open the hides at Pennington Flash, I'll stand outside the hide in pouring rain before I'll go in with 20 others. It's also the reason why I'll be carefully considering whether or not to put news out about any rarities, county or national, which I might find in the coming weeks.

I like Jacinda Ardern but I prefer John's advice: apply common sense & don't be a d*ck.

For some reason the rest of the post didn?t actually post.

Firstly, Ian, I wouldn?t bother about any of the judgemental or critical emails. Personally I think you?ve done a great job keeping the forum as good as ever through this terrible COVID-19 situation, and also setting up the lockdown garden threads.

I have finally been furloughed this week (rotational reasons) after working longer hours than usual during the lockdown with less staff to do what deliveries we had. During that time I suppose I was lucky in one sense to get out and about but on the flip side I came into contact with customers so keeping safe was a priority!
During that time I managed to do a bit of birding but that was strictly because I was in the immediate area whilst delivering to customers or because I passed on a direct route in between deliveries. All sightings by the way were literally from the van so personally I don?t think I broke the rules but I?m sure people will make their own mind up.

I kept some birds off the forum after checking with Ian first. This is the best of what I saw....
- 3 Greater Scaup (Marshside)
- 1 f Common Scoter (Marshside) all 4 in same shot
- 1 Eurasian Spoonbill (Marshside)
- 1 European White-fronted Goose (Wildfowlers)
- 1 Merlin (Wildfowlers)
- 1 Osprey (Liverpool)
- 1 m Honey Buzzard (Congleton)
...and an Arctic Tern (W.Yorks)

The question now arises after one of the posts below, how far would you travel to see something now the restriction on travel distance has been eased? The post suggests not more than an hour from home, but that would need to be clarified as I could easily be over 50 miles from home in an hour or if I was walking Id be a couple of miles away. Some people may see it as our hobby that we all love so much is technically classed as exercise and we are therefore travelling to do exercise.

I certainly wont be travelling best part of 3 hours to exercise at Flamborough and see a Brown Shrike either, Lifer or not !!!
Ill wait until restrictions ease further.
Cheers

Mike Crawley wrote:

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Mike Chorley wrote:

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I think the photo on North West Tonight of the road next to Binn Green car park yesterday says it all, at least for me. A traffic hazard on top of the potential health hazard, presumably because both car parks were full. When people have got over the first flush of excitement I may take the chance to walk up to Strinesdale to try and confirm breeding for the WEBS but otherwise I'll stick to my home range.....especially as the local park has suddenly got a lot quieter.

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 As I understand it the car parks were shu, so the lemmings double parked on pavements.

Beyond ridiculous 

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Mike Chorley wrote:

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I think the photo on North West Tonight of the road next to Binn Green car park yesterday says it all, at least for me. A traffic hazard on top of the potential health hazard, presumably because both car parks were full. When people have got over the first flush of excitement I may take the chance to walk up to Strinesdale to try and confirm breeding for the WEBS but otherwise I'll stick to my home range.....especially as the local park has suddenly got a lot quieter.

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 As I understand it the car parks were shu, so the lemmings double parked on pavements.

Beyond ridiculous 

I'll not be changing my behaviour either, staying local and walking whenever possible to anywhere I'm going. It is starting to kick off though, a Brown Shrike has turned up at Flamborough Head, the car park is shut & folk are arriving and parking in front of locals houses. It's bad enough today but local birders fear the worst if it stays longer. This will be the litmus test, as rarities and megas appear it will test the resolve of Twitchers and as time goes on I reckon more and more will be tempted on the basis that "my mates are going, so why shouldn't I?"

John, my understanding is that the changes which will happen tomorrow apply to everybody except those who are shielded. There is no change for the shielded group.  If you are over 70 and not shielded you can now travel around like everybody else. However, the data clearly shows that the older you are the more likely it is that you will be very badly affected by the virus. Therefore if I were over 70 and had no underlying health conditions I might go birding to a place where I met very few people and where there is plenty of space, such as on the moors, but I would be very cautious about going to Pennington Flash for example. In my experience from the past few weeks, I wouldn't assume that people you meet will follow social distancing rules so I'd keep away from as many people as possible including other birders.

The message from most healthcare professionals (I know or meet regularly at the moment) seems clear; we're all best to stay at home wherever and whenever possible, despite whatever the Government says!

In all honesty, most, if not all, birders bent the previous lockdown 'rules' to suit ourselves to some extent or another anyway, so interpreting the Government's new guidelines will probably be taken the same way. There are many out there who will still remain steadfast in that we should all be staying at home but, to cut a long story short, this forum's stance on the situation will change appropriately to the Government's guidance from tomorrow and a statement will be placed on the forum header then (or as soon as I've got back from peddling around Pennington Flash on my bike anyway...) .

I should add, before I get the usual critical and judgemental emails and messages, that this stance is based on the fact that it is not up to me to dictate to the public, nor especially birders on this forum, what they can and can't do in such a serious matter and against the advice of our Government (whatever you think of them personally) or contrary to what every other member of the public is legally entitled to do.