-- Edited by dave broome on Wednesday 24th of July 2019 08:21:40 PM
Richard Thew said
Wed Jul 24 10:56 AM, 2019
Mink are indeed a massive problem and I've unfortunately seen how destructive they are and I've seen some horrendous injuries afflicted even to the larger gulls! But, as pointed out already - I currently don't see how Egyptian geese could be an issue. If the authorities decide to go ahead with any "controlling" methods - that might not go down well with the general public!
John Watson said
Wed Jul 24 10:15 AM, 2019
Also, are Muntjac a problem ?
Anyway, there are some real nasties in there. It's a consultation not a directive
And what about Mink, Harlequins, or a thousand introduced non-native plants ?
At least DEFRA & Natural England can be trusted to get it right
PS, if only they added gamekeepers to that list
-- Edited by John Watson on Wednesday 24th of July 2019 10:23:08 AM
dave broome said
Tue Jul 23 11:04 PM, 2019
Egyptian Goose is one of the 14 animal and plant species referred to in a Government consultation period just opened, on the Invasive Species Order 2019. Consulting on how to manage these species in the UK it refers to potential measures to control the spread of Egyptian Goose, with hints at eradication. I wasnt aware that the species was of any particular concern?
E-bird report from 7th April 2017 at Platt Fields Park
Natural England aren't fit for purpose. How many million captive bred Pheasants are released into the wild under licence from them each year ? 4?
"Free the Egyptian 1"
Steve Christmas said
Thu Jun 6 7:51 AM, 2019
I last recorded it at Platt Fields on 30/12/2016 but not since
Tony Darby said
Tue May 28 1:20 PM, 2019
Re the Platt Fields Egyptian Goose. I'm afraid it disappeared some years ago and my last record of it was Oct. 2014.
David Walsh said
Sun Apr 28 12:18 PM, 2019
dave broome wrote:
Sorry, but on my posting below some of it is composed of direct quotes pasted from BOU - but my quotation marks have disappeared when posting, as have any apostrophes, so if my old English teacher is reading it, I havent forgotten how to use them
-- Edited by dave broome on Sunday 28th of April 2019 11:36:23 AM
It is a problem Ive had for some time when posting from my iPad, Dave. It works fine with a Kindle or PC. Maybe its something to do with settings, and therefore beyond my capabilities?
dave broome said
Sun Apr 28 11:35 AM, 2019
Sorry, but on my posting below some of it is composed of direct quotes pasted from BOU - but my quotation marks have disappeared when posting, as have any apostrophes, so if my old English teacher is reading it, I havent forgotten how to use them
-- Edited by dave broome on Sunday 28th of April 2019 11:36:23 AM
dave broome said
Sun Apr 28 11:31 AM, 2019
Julie Gardiners interesting post on the whereabouts of the last Etherow Country Park Egyptian Goose (Etherow CP sightings thread) had me thinking about Natural Englands apparent reluctance to licence the re-release of the bird, as a non-indigenous species. It is of course true to describe Egyptian Goose as an introduced species in the UK, but its one which has been part of the British scene since the 18th century. Its firmly on the list of British species https://www.bou.org.uk/british-list/
Egyptian Goose is categorised on the British list as C1, C5 and E.
Category C Species that, although introduced, now derive from the resulting self-sustaining populations.
C1 Naturalized introduced species - species that have occurred only as a result of introduction, e.g. Egyptian Goose Alopochen aegyptiacus
C5 Vagrant naturalized species species from established naturalized populations abroad, e.g. possibly some Ruddy Shelducks Tadorna ferruginea occurring in Britain.
Egyptian Goose was added to category C5 when a Dutch-ringed bird occurred in Cleveland last year https://www.bou.org.uk/british-list/changes-6-aug-2018/.
It would be unlawful to release a bird of a species which was not established, or which was breeding in the UK but likely to decline and disappear: The newly created Category C6 recognises that some previously established naturalized introductions to Britain have declined (and others may do so in the future) to a level that is no longer self-sustaining, and which will ultimately lead to extinction. Further releases of such non-native species are prohibited under Section 14 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981.
It is clear that Egyptian Goose doesnt fall in to that category and it is acknowledged that the species has expanded its range in the UK: http://www.nonnativespecies.org/factsheet/factsheet.cfm?speciesId=140
To release a bird of a non-native species is illegal: Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 Section 14 Introduction of new species
Subject to the provisions of this Part, any person who
(a)releases, or allows to escape from captivity, any animal
(i)to a place outwith its native range
To describe Egyptian Goose as such would be dubious, given its status as an established species. Maybe it then comes down to whether this species is naturally occurring in Greater Manchester?
For the purposes of this section the definition of wild bird in section 27(1) is to be read as not including any bird which is shown to have been bred in captivity unless it has been lawfully released into the wild as part of a re-population or re-introduction programme.
Julie comments that this last Egyptian Goose has been living at Etherow for about 15 years. I remember seeing Egyptian Geese there in 1995 (I cant remember how many without digging out old notebooks). How long had they already been present by then and when was the species first present there? How did it first occur there and did it ever breed there? Egyptian Goose has bred at least once recently at Tatton Park, so is undoubtedly a breeding species in the NW of England. The current Egyptian Goose surely cant have been present in 1995, so in the intervening years did breeding take place?
Surely Natural England wouldnt object to the re-release of a Mandarin from Etherow - is that any different to the Egyptian Goose? Im certain they wouldnt try to block the re-release of a Pheasant, Red-Legged Partridge or Little Owl? All in the same category as Egyptian Goose.
Lots of questions..
On the subject of the same species did the Platt Fields Park Egyptian Goose disappear? That had a BTO metal ring, but had been ringed there. Was it ever prone to wandering?
The consultation on Management measures for widely spread Invasive Alien Species in England and Wales closes on 12th September 2019
https://consult.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-management/invasive-alien-species-management-measures/
-- Edited by dave broome on Wednesday 24th of July 2019 08:21:40 PM
Anyway, there are some real nasties in there. It's a consultation not a directive
And what about Mink, Harlequins, or a thousand introduced non-native plants ?
At least DEFRA & Natural England can be trusted to get it right
-- Edited by John Watson on Wednesday 24th of July 2019 10:23:08 AM
Egyptian Goose is one of the 14 animal and plant species referred to in a Government consultation period just opened, on the Invasive Species Order 2019. Consulting on how to manage these species in the UK it refers to potential measures to control the spread of Egyptian Goose, with hints at eradication. I wasnt aware that the species was of any particular concern?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/invasive-species-order-2019-consultation-opens?utm_source=be9dd7d4-a451-4223-af0c-245bdb98dff8&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=daily
Natural England aren't fit for purpose. How many million captive bred Pheasants are released into the wild under licence from them each year ? 4?
"Free the Egyptian 1"
I last recorded it at Platt Fields on 30/12/2016 but not since
I'm afraid it disappeared some years ago and my last record of it was Oct. 2014.
It is a problem Ive had for some time when posting from my iPad, Dave. It works fine with a Kindle or PC. Maybe its something to do with settings, and therefore beyond my capabilities?
-- Edited by dave broome on Sunday 28th of April 2019 11:36:23 AM
Egyptian Goose is categorised on the British list as C1, C5 and E.
Category C
Species that, although introduced, now derive from the resulting self-sustaining populations.
C1 Naturalized introduced species - species that have occurred only as a result of introduction, e.g. Egyptian Goose Alopochen aegyptiacus
C5 Vagrant naturalized species species from established naturalized populations abroad, e.g. possibly some Ruddy Shelducks Tadorna ferruginea occurring in Britain.
Egyptian Goose was added to category C5 when a Dutch-ringed bird occurred in Cleveland last year https://www.bou.org.uk/british-list/changes-6-aug-2018/.
It would be unlawful to release a bird of a species which was not established, or which was breeding in the UK but likely to decline and disappear:
The newly created Category C6 recognises that some previously established naturalized introductions to Britain have declined (and others may do so in the future) to a level that is no longer self-sustaining, and which will ultimately lead to extinction. Further releases of such non-native species are prohibited under Section 14 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981.
It is clear that Egyptian Goose doesnt fall in to that category and it is acknowledged that the species has expanded its range in the UK:
http://www.nonnativespecies.org/factsheet/factsheet.cfm?speciesId=140
To release a bird of a non-native species is illegal:
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981
Section 14 Introduction of new species
Subject to the provisions of this Part, any person who
(a)releases, or allows to escape from captivity, any animal
(i)to a place outwith its native range
To describe Egyptian Goose as such would be dubious, given its status as an established species. Maybe it then comes down to whether this species is naturally occurring in Greater Manchester?
For the purposes of this section the definition of wild bird in section 27(1) is to be read as not including any bird which is shown to have been bred in captivity unless it has been lawfully released into the wild as part of a re-population or re-introduction programme.
Julie comments that this last Egyptian Goose has been living at Etherow for about 15 years. I remember seeing Egyptian Geese there in 1995 (I cant remember how many without digging out old notebooks). How long had they already been present by then and when was the species first present there? How did it first occur there and did it ever breed there? Egyptian Goose has bred at least once recently at Tatton Park, so is undoubtedly a breeding species in the NW of England. The current Egyptian Goose surely cant have been present in 1995, so in the intervening years did breeding take place?
Surely Natural England wouldnt object to the re-release of a Mandarin from Etherow - is that any different to the Egyptian Goose? Im certain they wouldnt try to block the re-release of a Pheasant, Red-Legged Partridge or Little Owl? All in the same category as Egyptian Goose.
Lots of questions..
On the subject of the same species did the Platt Fields Park Egyptian Goose disappear? That had a BTO metal ring, but had been ringed there. Was it ever prone to wandering?