I sympathise with your comments. Steppe Grey Shrike will be reinstated eventually when the Shrike taxonomy is sorted out, it's just been placed in the wrong holding position. Personally, for listing purposes, I switched from Clements taxonomy to IOC when the keepers of the British list (BOU) also adopted IOC rules. I find it fairly simple to keep a British list up to date as IOC publish regular 6-monthly updates. The Black-eared Wheatear and Whimbrel splits will be published towards the end on January 2020.
I am less comfortable with species that can only be separated by DNA analysis. Currently I still have 'Siberian Stonechat' on my list although I haven't a clue if the few birds I have seen were Siberian or Stejneger's. Hopefully a result on the Ashton's Flash stonechat will give me something definitive.
Another grey area is Scottish Crossbill. I am not certain I have I really seen one. When I saw them in Speyside years ago no-one worried about call and Parrot Crossbills in the same area were not known about. Bet I am not alone with this problem. But, as aways, a personal list is just that, personal. So I keep it for now.
Cheers John
Ian Chisnall said
Sat Jan 4 5:13 PM, 2020
My own world list increases by up to 80 percent depending on how draconian I am with myself as regards what is a species and what isn't
Mike Passant said
Sat Jan 4 5:04 PM, 2020
I gave up years ago trying to keep up with these interminable revisions, and now have no idea to within 100 species or so of what my world list is, - nor do I care. I hold my hand up straight away for I myself am guilty of inconsistency; - my sightings for example of Green, Greenish, Two-barred Greenish Warblers I still treat as one, purely out of idleness brought on by the notion that I should rather be out birding more often than wasting time pouring over list amendments. My fundamental early stance used to be that I stood firmly by the concept of sub-species, but generally this became a rather dated position to hold, so I relented and dutifully amended my 2005 edition of Clements from time to time, until the margins became cluttered with notations. In time I tired of this chore, driven by annoyance that certain splits were becoming lumps, and then lo and behold, the self same ones were then split again! Add to this the various differing taxonomic treatments on offer and the result is a dogs breakfast.
To take an example mentioned by my friend John on the preceding post; - Lanius pallidirostris Steppe Grey Shrike, previously a sub species of excubitor, then ludicrously lumped for some time with the much darker meridionalis, then split, but more recently lumped back with excubitor. The poor bird must be thoroughly dizzy!
The incredibly confiding Lincolnshire Steppe Grey Shrike which I watched on 08/11/2008, was like no Great Grey Shrike which I have ever seen or handled in the UK. It differed in plumage, biometrics, behaviour (oddly terrestrial), and apparently has a different moult strategy, with its range spanning Central Asia, centred roughly on Kazakhstan. Summer plumage birds are harder to split from excubitor, but here state of moult helps if seen/photographed well. Though I can see an argument for having it as a sub species of excubitor, it is staying on my UK list regardless, as it is likely to be split again.
Precise taxonomic treatment over time can never be set in stone for every single species, as of course speciation is ongoing at varying rates according to geography, climate, and environmental change, and there will always be example at the margins of sub specific/specific status, precipitating valid arguments either way. - Look at the Yellow Wagtail complex for taxonomic fun, with all the hybrids and back crosses involved; -does Eastern Yellow Wagtail slot into that particular gene pool, or not?
List therefore what you choose, and whatever your choice, the see-sawing and pace of revisions by so called experts is such that you will at different times at least almost certainly be validated!
Regards and Happy New Year to all!
John Rayner said
Fri Jan 3 9:07 AM, 2020
Armchair Ticking.
The latest IOC update (version 10.1) is due for publication this month. Of interest to British listers are the splits of Hudsonian/Eurasian Whimbrels and Eastern/Western Black-eared Wheatears.
The BOU will eventually follow suit and have promised an update to the British list which is "due to be published as soon as possible in the New Year".
Some compensation then for the lumping of Steppe Grey and Great Grey Shrikes.
Cheers John
pete berry said
Sat Feb 2 11:44 AM, 2019
Wow,another British tick,only taken 32 years to put it on my list!!!As I very rarely twitch anymore it must be the 1st tick I've had for a few years
dave broome said
Fri Feb 1 10:19 PM, 2019
John Rayner wrote:
Any old-time birders out there interested in the British List?
BOU have just accepted the 1987 Falcated Duck as Cat A https://www.bou.org.uk/british-list/changes-1-feb-2019/ (Makes up for the lumping of Steppe Grey Shrike).
Cheers John
You have made me feel old-time there John , saw that bird at Thrapston on the way to Norfolk in my first car, a Ford Cortina
John Rayner said
Fri Feb 1 8:03 PM, 2019
Any old-time birders out there interested in the British List?
BOU have just accepted the 1987 Falcated Duck as Cat A https://www.bou.org.uk/british-list/changes-1-feb-2019/ (Makes up for the lumping of Steppe Grey Shrike).
There has been an announcement from the BOU that from January 2018 they will adopt the IOC World Bird List as the basis for the British List. This will lead to some splits (like the Bean Geese) and some lumps (like Hudsonian Whimbrel as a subspecies of Whimbrel, and the redpolls!). For any who follow the British List religiously then this may impact their totals. It is hopefully explained clearly on their site:
I sympathise with your comments. Steppe Grey Shrike will be reinstated eventually when the Shrike taxonomy is sorted out, it's just been placed in the wrong holding position. Personally, for listing purposes, I switched from Clements taxonomy to IOC when the keepers of the British list (BOU) also adopted IOC rules. I find it fairly simple to keep a British list up to date as IOC publish regular 6-monthly updates. The Black-eared Wheatear and Whimbrel splits will be published towards the end on January 2020.
I am less comfortable with species that can only be separated by DNA analysis. Currently I still have 'Siberian Stonechat' on my list although I haven't a clue if the few birds I have seen were Siberian or Stejneger's. Hopefully a result on the Ashton's Flash stonechat will give me something definitive.
Another grey area is Scottish Crossbill. I am not certain I have I really seen one. When I saw them in Speyside years ago no-one worried about call and Parrot Crossbills in the same area were not known about. Bet I am not alone with this problem. But, as aways, a personal list is just that, personal. So I keep it for now.
Cheers John
My own world list increases by up to 80 percent depending on how draconian I am with myself as regards what is a species and what isn't
I gave up years ago trying to keep up with these interminable revisions, and now have no idea to within 100 species or so of what my world list is, - nor do I care. I hold my hand up straight away for I myself am guilty of inconsistency; - my sightings for example of Green, Greenish, Two-barred Greenish Warblers I still treat as one, purely out of idleness brought on by the notion that I should rather be out birding more often than wasting time pouring over list amendments.
My fundamental early stance used to be that I stood firmly by the concept of sub-species, but generally this became a rather dated position to hold, so I relented and dutifully amended my 2005 edition of Clements from time to time, until the margins became cluttered with notations. In time I tired of this chore, driven by annoyance that certain splits were becoming lumps, and then lo and behold, the self same ones were then split again!
Add to this the various differing taxonomic treatments on offer and the result is a dogs breakfast.
To take an example mentioned by my friend John on the preceding post; - Lanius pallidirostris Steppe Grey Shrike, previously a sub species of excubitor, then ludicrously lumped for some time with the much darker meridionalis, then split, but more recently lumped back with excubitor. The poor bird must be thoroughly dizzy!
The incredibly confiding Lincolnshire Steppe Grey Shrike which I watched on 08/11/2008, was like no Great Grey Shrike which I have ever seen or handled in the UK. It differed in plumage, biometrics, behaviour (oddly terrestrial), and apparently has a different moult strategy, with its range spanning Central Asia, centred roughly on Kazakhstan. Summer plumage birds are harder to split from excubitor, but here state of moult helps if seen/photographed well. Though I can see an argument for having it as a sub species of excubitor, it is staying on my UK list regardless, as it is likely to be split again.
Precise taxonomic treatment over time can never be set in stone for every single species, as of course speciation is ongoing at varying rates according to geography, climate, and environmental change, and there will always be example at the margins of sub specific/specific status, precipitating valid arguments either way. - Look at the Yellow Wagtail complex for taxonomic fun, with all the hybrids and back crosses involved; -does Eastern Yellow Wagtail slot into that particular gene pool, or not?
List therefore what you choose, and whatever your choice, the see-sawing and pace of revisions by so called experts is such that you will at different times at least almost certainly be validated!
Regards and Happy New Year to all!
The latest IOC update (version 10.1) is due for publication this month. Of interest to British listers are the splits of Hudsonian/Eurasian Whimbrels and Eastern/Western Black-eared Wheatears.
The BOU will eventually follow suit and have promised an update to the British list which is "due to be published as soon as possible in the New Year".
Some compensation then for the lumping of Steppe Grey and Great Grey Shrikes.
Cheers John
You have made me feel old-time there John , saw that bird at Thrapston on the way to Norfolk in my first car, a Ford Cortina
BOU have just accepted the 1987 Falcated Duck as Cat A https://www.bou.org.uk/british-list/changes-1-feb-2019/ (Makes up for the lumping of Steppe Grey Shrike).
Cheers John
More info:
http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=6151&utm_source=birdguides-birdwatch-newsletter&utm_campaign=taxa-bg-news&utm_medium=email
There has been an announcement from the BOU that from January 2018 they will adopt the IOC World Bird List as the basis for the British List. This will lead to some splits (like the Bean Geese) and some lumps (like Hudsonian Whimbrel as a subspecies of Whimbrel, and the redpolls!). For any who follow the British List religiously then this may impact their totals. It is hopefully explained clearly on their site:
https://www.bou.org.uk/about-the-bou/bou-adopt-ioc-world-bird-list/
-- Edited by Doc Brewster on Friday 20th of January 2017 10:13:41 AM