Must admit it was that estimate of a one metre wingspan that lead my thoughts!! Didn't send me anywhere near Lapwing, but so hard to judge size sometimes!! I get countless folk in the shop here at Focalpoint saying they have had an eagle on telegraph posts on the lane leading to our shop. When I say it's prob a Buzzard they say 'oh no its much bigger' but when we walk along the lane to check it's a female Buzzard & they just haven't ever seen one that close! Easy done, just keep birding, we are al learning every day
Simon Adams said
Fri Apr 1 11:09 AM, 2016
Thanks Simon, any advice is gratefully received.
I'm sure I'm the only person ever who thought a Lapwing was a Hen Harrier.
It appears I have a long way to go
Simon Gough said
Fri Apr 1 10:51 AM, 2016
Hi Simon,
Well done for asking the question in the first place on this forum; I can remember my trepidation before I posted anything the first few times. However most birders I know love a good puzzle, so no wonder you got some replies! The updated ID of Lapwing sounds convincing and I've certainly seen that bird and that behaviour at Elton myself. They whirl around don't they? Your observation about a perceived size difference in flight and at rest makes sense now too.
I noticed you mentioned calling from the mystery bird; you could try using a great website called Xeno Canto. If you have an idea of a species you can search for recordings of it and then play them back. It can be very gratifying to realize that the calls you heard are actually the particular bird you thought they were. I particularly recall using it to nail the ID of a pair of small birds I'd seen, that I thought were my first ever Sedge Warblers. Looking at Google images was making me pretty sure, but when I listened to the calls too it really confirmed it.
Lapwings have a fairly distinctive flight call so if you can find some good examples on Xeno Canto that will probably help you a bit. This example is pretty typical: http://www.xeno-canto.org/278935
Similarly, if you have seen something like a finch and heard it sing, but not clinched the ID visually, you can go through 3 or 4 possibilities that way.
Hope this helps
-- Edited by Simon Gough on Friday 1st of April 2016 10:58:54 AM
Simon Adams said
Fri Apr 1 10:33 AM, 2016
Hi
I have spoken to a birding friend of mine this morning and described the behaviour and sizes, colour etc and been informed it sounds like a Lapwing.
On researching these birds I think that was what I probably saw. The bird looked huge in flight and quite small once landed.
I look forward to thousands more mistaken identifications!
Regards
Doc Brewster said
Fri Apr 1 9:20 AM, 2016
Hi Simon, before properly reading the post (confused me a bit as it had been moved & conglomerated into one post!!) I did think Buzzard too. I have them 'skydancing' on my patch at Newchurch Common at the mo and saw the same at New Fancy Watchpoint in the Forest of Dean over Easter. At the latter Ravens were 'skydancing' too, so not a totally diagnostic feature. On the grounds of probabilities Buzzard sounds right, a Hen Harrier would have usually showed a noticeable white rump/upper tail band too
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Apr 1 8:09 AM, 2016
Thread originally started by Simon Adam, all posts including replies from other birders starting with the oldest st the bottom of this post and working up towards the newest:
Simon Adams wrote:
Sorry to keep banging on about this but it's bugging me now. I have looked on YouTube at Hen Harriers and the behaviour of the bird I saw was very similar to a Harriers "Skydance." The calling it was making was also remarkably similar to what i have found on a songbird website. It couldn't have been a Harrier could it?? I realise these are rare and wouldn't know if they ever seen here.
Simon Adams wrote:
Sorry I didn't mean to say bigger than a thrush, it was about crow sized. It did look significantly larger whilst flying. I appreciate this isn't much help. I was watching it about 6.30pm this evening.
Simon Adams wrote:
Rob and Doc Thanks for the warm welcome and response. Yes, I take the point about the wagtail - checked my Collins at home and it would be the grey. Rookie error - they are both yellow. Re the mystery raptor. I saw it from about 120m away. The bird was mainly in the air.. I would estimate it's wingspan at approx 1m. There was a definition V shape to the wing. There was a noticeable brown tip to each wing and possibly each dark brown tip was about 2 inches from end of wing. When it landed and I viewed it with the naked eye I was surprised by how small it was compared to when flying. I would say it was slightly bigger than a thrush. I have now got the Collins out and am thinking it was a buzzard. The Hen Harrier illustrated has very similar brown wing tips but I appreciate it won't be a HH. I don't actually think the soaring and diving was hunting, more displaying. I hope this helps and again thanks for the welcome. Regards Si
Doc Brewster wrote:
Hi Simon, welcome too
Just because of the dates and arrival times of migrants the Yellow Wagtail you describe was more likely to be a Grey Wagtail, very yellow too, but an Elton resident bird not a migrant. The 2016 migrant Yellow Wagtails have just arrived today in a couple of southern counties in England and they are the first in 2016 so one as far north as Elton is unlikely. I hope you don't mind this suggestion
Rob Creek wrote:
Simon Adams wrote:
All I would appreciate some help with bird ID. I am local to the res and have taken my first steps to getting to know the birds - I am currently reading all 90 odd pages of this Elton thread. I was ok with a Kestrel and Yellow Wagtail this evening and I think I also saw a Sparrowhawk but would appreciate your confirmation. From Crow Trees to the canal I saw the bird in the farm field to my right. Bird was very pale underneath and had brown wings or wing tips. It was flying close to the ground but repeatedly soaring to 30 feet before diving down. It was also making short repeated shrieks. I really would appreciate you experienced birders helping someone just starting out. Thanks in advance.
Hi Simon, If you are new to the forum then a warm welcome. I don't wish to sound harsh but I think you will be expecting the impossible in trying to get an identification from the sparse description of your mystery bird. I think you'd need to give some indication as to size, a reasonable idea of shape (ie. was it Bird of Prey like? Thrush like? that kind of thing) body colour, any distinctive markings you saw, did it perch in a tree, land on the ground, any characteristics etc etc Just a few thoughts for you that might trigger ideas. Cheers Rob
Simon Adams wrote:
All I would appreciate some help with bird ID. I am local to the res and have taken my first steps to getting to know the birds - I am currently reading all 90 odd pages of this Elton thread. I was ok with a Kestrel and Yellow Wagtail this evening and I think I also saw a Sparrowhawk but would appreciate your confirmation. From Crow Trees to the canal I saw the bird in the farm field to my right. Bird was very pale underneath and had brown wings or wing tips. It was flying close to the ground but repeatedly soaring to 30 feet before diving down. It was also making short repeated shrieks. I really would appreciate you experienced birders helping someone just starting out. Thanks in advance.
Glad you sorted ID in the end
Must admit it was that estimate of a one metre wingspan that lead my thoughts!! Didn't send me anywhere near Lapwing, but so hard to judge size sometimes!! I get countless folk in the shop here at Focalpoint saying they have had an eagle on telegraph posts on the lane leading to our shop. When I say it's prob a Buzzard they say 'oh no its much bigger' but when we walk along the lane to check it's a female Buzzard & they just haven't ever seen one that close! Easy done, just keep birding, we are al learning every day
Well done for asking the question in the first place on this forum; I can remember my trepidation before I posted anything the first few times. However most birders I know love a good puzzle, so no wonder you got some replies! The updated ID of Lapwing sounds convincing and I've certainly seen that bird and that behaviour at Elton myself. They whirl around don't they? Your observation about a perceived size difference in flight and at rest makes sense now too. I noticed you mentioned calling from the mystery bird; you could try using a great website called Xeno Canto. If you have an idea of a species you can search for recordings of it and then play them back. It can be very gratifying to realize that the calls you heard are actually the particular bird you thought they were. I particularly recall using it to nail the ID of a pair of small birds I'd seen, that I thought were my first ever Sedge Warblers. Looking at Google images was making me pretty sure, but when I listened to the calls too it really confirmed it.
Lapwings have a fairly distinctive flight call so if you can find some good examples on Xeno Canto that will probably help you a bit. This example is pretty typical:
http://www.xeno-canto.org/278935
Similarly, if you have seen something like a finch and heard it sing, but not clinched the ID visually, you can go through 3 or 4 possibilities that way.
Hope this helps
-- Edited by Simon Gough on Friday 1st of April 2016 10:58:54 AM
Hi
I have spoken to a birding friend of mine this morning and described the behaviour and sizes, colour etc and been informed it sounds like a Lapwing.
On researching these birds I think that was what I probably saw. The bird looked huge in flight and quite small once landed.
I look forward to thousands more mistaken identifications!
Regards
Hi Simon, before properly reading the post (confused me a bit as it had been moved & conglomerated into one post!!) I did think Buzzard too. I have them 'skydancing' on my patch at Newchurch Common at the mo and saw the same at New Fancy Watchpoint in the Forest of Dean over Easter. At the latter Ravens were 'skydancing' too, so not a totally diagnostic feature. On the grounds of probabilities Buzzard sounds right, a Hen Harrier would have usually showed a noticeable white rump/upper tail band too