This is of course all getting away from the point of my initial comment so yes, it's infinately more likely to see two Sparrowhawks together in such a location and situation (as it is now practically confirmed the birds were) than it is a pair of Cuckoos in a similar location and situation plucking a dead bird (which it was confirmed the birds were doing).
Rob Creek said
Sun May 10 1:25 PM, 2015
Not at all Ian, I'd rather you comment than didn't to be honest. Certainly does make for healthy discussion.
When you explain it like that, talking about records, habitat etc ... it puts another perspective on the sighting in that Sparrowhawk's could be what was seen and I can see how my comment could imply that it's not going to be Sparrowhawk's, but it is only speculation and mine was mainly based on 2 things (and I don't want to take anything away from the observer and turn their sighting into what I think it is if you get my meaning)
1. The fact that the observer initially thought they were feeding on possibly grubs which in my view would be a very small % of a Sparrowhawk's diet, whereas along with caterpillars makes up a high % of a Cuckoo's diet.
2. Just how common is it to see 2 Birds of Prey feeding in that way? Not saying they don't do it, I can't recall seeing it myself and just thought it a bit unusual to see 2 Sparrowhawk's doing that. And because female B-o-P are larger than males, don't they naturally assume dominance and very often take the kill off a male anyway as she has to eat enough for her and be enough left to feed the chicks or keep up her energy for egg production (As well as fending off an aggressive male) which might pose the question why share a kill if you can just take it off your smaller mate?
One other point you mention (and I don't want to go too far away from the original topic but I feel it's a valid question), "typical Cuckoo habitat". What is that exactly? I thought Cuckoo's can breed in a whole range of habitats including Moorland, farmland, fen, marsh, scrubland, wetland etc and is basically governed by the availability of suitable host species to provide the ready made nest and subsequent parenting for the Cuckoo egg and eventual chick. Considering I read somewhere a long time ago that around 35 species of British Bird have provided this service for Cuckoo's, I would make that a very diverse habitat indeed. Cheers Rob
-- Edited by Rob Creek on Sunday 10th of May 2015 01:28:39 PM
-- Edited by Rob Creek on Sunday 10th of May 2015 01:30:31 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Sun May 10 12:15 PM, 2015
Yep, was a discussion thread when I set it up eight years ago and still is Rob, thanks for pointing that out. Why is it when I make a simple comment or indeed legitimately question that of others (which anyone can do and is healthy for discussion) people think I'm trying to be definitive?
To embellish on my own opinion therefore, is two Sparrowhawks (so presumably a pair) being present at a kill at the same time at the beginning of the breeding season so unusual? Bear in mind that information from the observer is scant at best; were they actually 'together' as such/how long was the duration they were together/was there any interaction/what was the habitat they were present at (bearing in mind there's not a whole lot of 'typical' Cuckoo habitat around there)?
The birds were feeding on a horizontal log on the ground (log size unknown?) so it's still just as likely to be Sparrowhawks in my opinion.
On the basis of factual probability alone, two Cuckoos feeding together (so presumably a pair) in an area which never has any Cuckoo records at all is far less likely than a pair of Sparrowhawks which are present in that area and can often be found together.
That is of course, not to say they were Sparrowhawks or weren't Cuckoos. Indeed, I hope the latter is correct as it'd be an excellent and potentially very important record (though that's not of course to say a pair of Sparrowhawks isn't of course!).
Rob Creek said
Sun May 10 11:45 AM, 2015
Most probably unusual too Ian, I don't disagree, but out of the 2... the more likely to be feeding that way on the ground (only in my opinion) would've been Cuckoo. That's why I stated I wasn't saying they weren't Sparrowhawk's and it is only my opinion, after all it is a discussion thread
Ian McKerchar said
Sun May 10 10:53 AM, 2015
And a pair of Cuckoos doing similar is less unusual (particularly in that area when one would be a good record)?
Rob Creek said
Sun May 10 9:51 AM, 2015
Hi Mike, I'm not saying they weren't Sparrowhawk's but I'd be leaning towards Cuckoo's as Bernard says, as they are often seen feeding in this way on grubs-caterpillars-worms etc. Sparrowhawk's do eat other things although mainly other birds, it's the behaviour that I find unusual for me. Can't recall 2 plucking and sharing a kill together in the way you've described.
Mike Savage said
Tue May 5 9:43 AM, 2015
Having found out in more detail what friend saw - a pair on a horizontal log appearing to dig into trunk - think it was actually a pair sharing a kill and plucking...
Thanks anyway Bernard!
Mike
Bernard McGurrin said
Mon May 4 3:40 PM, 2015
Mike Savage wrote:
Hi. a non-birder friend was watching what she is sure was a pair of sparrowhawks apparently digging something out of a tree, possibly grubs. This was near the Mersey at Northenden. Anyone seen anything like this before? Mike
Not something I've witnessed Mike although I could imagine sparrowhawks would eat grubs caterpillars etc, could they have been cuckoo ? they do look similar and would definitely eat caterpillars or grubs,
Mike Savage said
Mon May 4 9:06 AM, 2015
Hi. a non-birder friend was watching what she is sure was a pair of sparrowhawks apparently digging something out of a tree, possibly grubs. This was near the Mersey at Northenden. Anyone seen anything like this before? Mike
When you explain it like that, talking about records, habitat etc ... it puts another perspective on the sighting in that Sparrowhawk's could be what was seen and I can see how my comment could imply that it's not going to be Sparrowhawk's, but it is only speculation and mine was mainly based on 2 things (and I don't want to take anything away from the observer and turn their sighting into what I think it is if you get my meaning)
1. The fact that the observer initially thought they were feeding on possibly grubs which in my view would be a very small % of a Sparrowhawk's diet, whereas along with caterpillars makes up a high % of a Cuckoo's diet.
2. Just how common is it to see 2 Birds of Prey feeding in that way? Not saying they don't do it, I can't recall seeing it myself and just thought it a bit unusual to see 2 Sparrowhawk's doing that.
And because female B-o-P are larger than males, don't they naturally assume dominance and very often take the kill off a male anyway as she has to eat enough for her and be enough left to feed the chicks or keep up her energy for egg production (As well as fending off an aggressive male) which might pose the question why share a kill if you can just take it off your smaller mate?
One other point you mention (and I don't want to go too far away from the original topic but I feel it's a valid question), "typical Cuckoo habitat". What is that exactly? I thought Cuckoo's can breed in a whole range of habitats including Moorland, farmland, fen, marsh, scrubland, wetland etc and is basically governed by the availability of suitable host species to provide the ready made nest and subsequent parenting for the Cuckoo egg and eventual chick. Considering I read somewhere a long time ago that around 35 species of British Bird have provided this service for Cuckoo's, I would make that a very diverse habitat indeed.
Cheers
Rob
-- Edited by Rob Creek on Sunday 10th of May 2015 01:28:39 PM
-- Edited by Rob Creek on Sunday 10th of May 2015 01:30:31 PM
To embellish on my own opinion therefore, is two Sparrowhawks (so presumably a pair) being present at a kill at the same time at the beginning of the breeding season so unusual? Bear in mind that information from the observer is scant at best; were they actually 'together' as such/how long was the duration they were together/was there any interaction/what was the habitat they were present at (bearing in mind there's not a whole lot of 'typical' Cuckoo habitat around there)?
The birds were feeding on a horizontal log on the ground (log size unknown?) so it's still just as likely to be Sparrowhawks in my opinion.
On the basis of factual probability alone, two Cuckoos feeding together (so presumably a pair) in an area which never has any Cuckoo records at all is far less likely than a pair of Sparrowhawks which are present in that area and can often be found together.
That is of course, not to say they were Sparrowhawks or weren't Cuckoos. Indeed, I hope the latter is correct as it'd be an excellent and potentially very important record (though that's not of course to say a pair of Sparrowhawks isn't of course!).
I'm not saying they weren't Sparrowhawk's but I'd be leaning towards Cuckoo's as Bernard says, as they are often seen feeding in this way on grubs-caterpillars-worms etc.
Sparrowhawk's do eat other things although mainly other birds, it's the behaviour that I find unusual for me. Can't recall 2 plucking and sharing a kill together in the way you've described.
Thanks anyway Bernard!
Mike
Not something I've witnessed Mike although I could imagine sparrowhawks would eat grubs caterpillars etc, could they have been cuckoo ? they do look similar and would definitely eat caterpillars or grubs,
Mike