I'm not sure what the situation is like now in London (the Esher roost was quite impressive even when Riggers and I went to check it out more than 10 years ago) but info from a friend in Brussels is that there are 7 roosts in the city, the largest numbering 3,000 birds. The main competition seems to be with Nuthatch, which is quite a rarity there, as the Jackdaws and Stock Doves are being negatively affected by the 500-1,000 strong flock of Alexandrine Parakeets which also exists.
Andy Bissitt said
Sat Nov 22 8:59 PM, 2014
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Andy Bissitt wrote:
As the activities of man create imbalances in nature of many different kinds, and certainly of a greater severity than that which the parakeets might bring, I would be more inclined to cull us.
Finally, we agree on something Andy
Ian,
You can have no idea how much this means to me, but if you started around zero you'd be pretty close.
Doc Brewster said
Sat Nov 22 2:47 PM, 2014
Good call, Andy
Just a quick input, friends in Dorset, who run the bird club and one is main editor of the bird report have been looking at Ring-necked Parakeet effect on native species for some time now. The species has had a stronghold in the Studland area since the 1990s so they have had reasonable numbers longer than in GM. The main loser from native bird species during their study were Jackdaws. Several Jackdaws down there were hole-nesters in mature trees and the parakeets usurped the corvids when taking the holes over for their own nests. That's all, not an official study, but an effect was noted down there.
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Nov 21 10:04 PM, 2014
Andy Bissitt wrote:
As the activities of man create imbalances in nature of many different kinds, and certainly of a greater severity than that which the parakeets might bring, I would be more inclined to cull us.
Finally, we agree on something Andy
Andy Bissitt said
Fri Nov 21 9:51 PM, 2014
As the activities of man create imbalances in nature of many different kinds, and certainly of a greater severity than that which the parakeets might bring, I would be more inclined to cull us.
Craig Higson said
Wed Nov 19 8:41 PM, 2014
I don't really know very much about the species and its ecology. I tend to associate it with urban fringe type areas - gardens close to parkland, that type of habitat, and have yet to see it in mature woodland, farmland etc. so, I'm guessing its impact is limited at the moment. However, given the growing importance of gardens and urban green space for our native wildlife I can only see the situation becoming more serious. My inclination would be to say to nip it in the bud now so we don't end up with a situation like we have with other non natives that are now almost impossible to control. I hate the thought of killing anything at all but while the levels are relatively low, perhaps something could be done like nest/egg destruction which would probably be easier and safer than trying to shoot them in public areas. The obvious problem with that being finding and accessing them. But, where there's a will and all that.
Bill Myerscough said
Wed Nov 19 5:13 PM, 2014
It's nice to see a topic like this raised on the forum by Ian. There are always new issues coming to the fore in birding, some of which we shy away from discussing. I'm sure that with all of us Mancunians being very well-behaved and good mannered on this forum that we can have a civilised debate on this topic.
I personally am not a big fan of any non-native species and I suspect that the Ring-necked Parakeet must have at least some impact on native species? Linking this up next with the Ruddy Duck cull, which the scientific evidence suggested was required and to which I was broadly in favour of. One suspects that if Ring-necked Parakeet numbers do "get out of hand" (which they appear to have done so already in the south-east) and we later want to remove it, then it seems likely that our ability to cull this species will be much, much more difficult than it was for the Ruddy Duck? Some limited studies have been undertaken on this impact of this species on native birds (see below) but it seems a matter of urgency for more to be undertaken quickly and some firm conclusions drawn?
So, I thought the two following links to academic studies on how its feeding and nesting behaviour might impact on native birds, might be of relevance. The papers can be read in full, if interested, by looking for the appropriate links on the pages.
It's always interesting to see how findings might be interpreted. Re the study between Ring-necked Parakeets and Nuthatches I read somewhere that the writer thought the impact of the former on the latter was "minimal". Also one of the conclusions drawn in the paper is "Our results suggest that it is unlikely that Ring-necked Parakeets will cause severe declines of native nuthatches". Or another way "Our models indicate that throughout much of their range, and in a variety of habitats, parakeets and nuthatches will compete for nesting cavities, but as the competition strength is only moderate, the total impact of parakeets on nuthatch populations will be limited, with at most one-third of the population at risk". So the effect they may have is minimal, they won't cause severe declines and at worst only one third of the population is at risk. But is that really acceptable or should they as a non-native species not be in a position to have any effect whatsoever on native birds? We all often see only what we want to see. Make up your own minds on what is known to date.
Cheers,
Bill.
rob archer said
Wed Nov 19 7:29 AM, 2014
I quite like the splash of colour they add to our towns and parks... If it was down to me I would leave them alone Rob..
dave broome said
Tue Nov 18 10:25 PM, 2014
As a non-native species it obviously should be given thorough consideration. No obvious conflicts with native species spring to mind, other larger arboreal hole-nesting species occuring at relatively low densities. I know nothing much about the species, but it would be terrible to think 'if only' further down the line. Having said that., I see no particular obvious problem with them. Could be a source of exotic food for increasing urban Peregrines...
Mike Passant said
Tue Nov 18 8:34 PM, 2014
An interesting and appropriate topic to raise Ian; I don't honestly have a view as I don't know enough about the effects they have had (or have not had) in the S.E. Surely there will have been some studies undertaken concerning the effect of their presence? Up here in Durham, for what it is worth, I personally have never seen a Ring-necked Parakeet away from Ward Jackson Park in Hartlepool where there has been an established colony for at least I suppose a decade or more. However, from the latest annual bird report I quote a maximum count in the park itself of 7 birds on 17/2/ 2013, a roost of 37 birds was noted on 02/1/2013 elsewhere in the town, since when birds have been recorded at South Shields to the north and in Durham City to the west. It is felt that birds may very soon be breeding in other sites in the county. So the recent surge of records in various boroughs of G M is mirrored up here. I wonder if a relatively mild winter last year and recent generally hotter summers are facilitating more successful wintering/breeding?
Moving off Ring-necked Parakeets though, the situation in Madrid is that Monk Parakeets (natives of S.America originally) number many thousands across the city as a whole. The city has many extensive parks and avenues of trees, but these pests are seemingly everywhere across the suburbs and I see them as a plague species which can only be to the detriment of native species. I should go as far as to say that in Madrid at least, the situation now seems to be out of control, and heaven forbid that Ring-necks achieve the same dominance here.
Ian Campbell said
Tue Nov 18 7:20 PM, 2014
Am I alone in getting a little concerned about the increasing numbers of these alian birds being reported in our area?. Should we not be concerned about their impact on our native birdlife and I wonder if they should be controlled ( I mean killed obviously) now whilst their numbers are relatively small. I think I was in favour of the kill (cull ) of the Ruddy Duck, just to be even more controversial. What do people think? Cheers Ian
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 09:32:12 PM
Ian,
You can have no idea how much this means to me, but if you started around zero you'd be pretty close.
Just a quick input, friends in Dorset, who run the bird club and one is main editor of the bird report have been looking at Ring-necked Parakeet effect on native species for some time now. The species has had a stronghold in the Studland area since the 1990s so they have had reasonable numbers longer than in GM. The main loser from native bird species during their study were Jackdaws. Several Jackdaws down there were hole-nesters in mature trees and the parakeets usurped the corvids when taking the holes over for their own nests. That's all, not an official study, but an effect was noted down there.
Finally, we agree on something Andy
I personally am not a big fan of any non-native species and I suspect that the Ring-necked Parakeet must have at least some impact on native species? Linking this up next with the Ruddy Duck cull, which the scientific evidence suggested was required and to which I was broadly in favour of. One suspects that if Ring-necked Parakeet numbers do "get out of hand" (which they appear to have done so already in the south-east) and we later want to remove it, then it seems likely that our ability to cull this species will be much, much more difficult than it was for the Ruddy Duck? Some limited studies have been undertaken on this impact of this species on native birds (see below) but it seems a matter of urgency for more to be undertaken quickly and some firm conclusions drawn?
So, I thought the two following links to academic studies on how its feeding and nesting behaviour might impact on native birds, might be of relevance. The papers can be read in full, if interested, by looking for the appropriate links on the pages.
http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?print=1&a=4282
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230305777_Assessing_the_potential_impact_of_invasive_ringnecked_parakeets_Psittacula_krameri_on_native_nuthatches_Sitta_europeae_in_Belgium
It's always interesting to see how findings might be interpreted.
Cheers,
Bill.
Rob..
An interesting and appropriate topic to raise Ian; I don't honestly have a view as I don't know enough about the effects they have had (or have not had) in the S.E. Surely there will have been some studies undertaken concerning the effect of their presence?
Up here in Durham, for what it is worth, I personally have never seen a Ring-necked Parakeet away from Ward Jackson Park in Hartlepool where there has been an established colony for at least I suppose a decade or more.
However, from the latest annual bird report I quote a maximum count in the park itself of 7 birds on 17/2/ 2013, a roost of 37 birds was noted on 02/1/2013 elsewhere in the town, since when birds have been recorded at South Shields to the north and in Durham City to the west. It is felt that birds may very soon be breeding in other sites in the county. So the recent surge of records in various boroughs of G M is mirrored up here.
I wonder if a relatively mild winter last year and recent generally hotter summers are facilitating more successful wintering/breeding?
Moving off Ring-necked Parakeets though, the situation in Madrid is that Monk Parakeets (natives of S.America originally) number many thousands across the city as a whole. The city has many extensive parks and avenues of trees, but these pests are seemingly everywhere across the suburbs and I see them as a plague species which can only be to the detriment of native species.
I should go as far as to say that in Madrid at least, the situation now seems to be out of control, and heaven forbid that Ring-necks achieve the same dominance here.
Cheers Ian
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 09:32:12 PM