Not saying they can't/shouldn't Ian, but if you start simple and get them hooked on making the list it can start better habits than trying to get them to write everything down (speaking from experience) - more fun ticking than writing. Obviously I'm talking about kids here.

Its the way I started, tick list then moved on to a notebook and have carried one ever since.

Regardless of 'gottaspot' website (do we have to say 'spot') why can't young birders start 'proper' recording now, while they're young? I submitted my first sightings to the Leigh Ornithological Society in my very young teens and that was before the plethora of modern recording methods, otherwise I don't doubt it would have been earlier.

As for 'recording for science', probably 60% (likely much, much more) of users of this website DON'T submit their sightings despite me bending over backwards to help them do so; and they're all fully grown adults! (insert shaking head/disappointed looking emotion...)

Agreed John. An electronic 'I Spy' were my thoughts exactly. I think it's a great idea to try and get new birders hooked. The recording for science can come later. This is more of the thing you'd have on your phone or tablet and use in the same way you would one of the ones WWT and RSPB used to provide for aday tick list. At least that's how I saw it.

I have just had a look at this and I don't think Steve will be losing any records from its user base. Seems more aimed at children - like a sort of electronic I-Spy book of birds. If it taps into any youngster's collecting instincts (look no further than the success of Panini stickers) and develops their interest then it is laudable, as is the plug for the RSPB. The order the birds are presented in is rather odd though being in alphabetical order of families. Why not just alphabetical order of birds or, better still, a systematic list.

Cheers John

Don't want to appear negative, but do we really need another bird recording system?

Recording the birds we see is vitally important for their protection and preservation of important habitats so, if we are going to record birds, we need to make sure we submit those records to the right people in the right format.

Our county bird records should be sent to the Greater Manchester Bird Recording Group (using Mapmate or Excel spreadsheet). GMBRG shares its records with the GM Local Records Centre (to whom records can also be submitted via the Rodis system). You can also submit records via the BirdTrack website and these will also be shared locally and nationally.

Every new system makes life harder for the overworked person who has to check and reformat all the data. Please have pity on him

There's plenty of information on the accepted recording systems on this forum and elsewhere on the Manchester Birding website.

End of sermon!

Hi all :) I hope it's okay to post external links here - this is not for profit or commercial gain, simply a bird lover's personal initiative!

A friend of mine has set up a website aimed at beginner and novice birdwatchers (though anybody might benefit!) centred around a downloadable list of 259 British bird species. The challenge to those starting out is to spot as many of the 259 as possible and record them on the free bird tracker. As well as hoping that people will discover the pure joy of watching birds it's also an attempt to raise awareness of the precarious situation of many of our bird species.

Although it's aimed at getting beginners and novices involved in birdwatching and conservation, my friend would massively appreciate any feedback any resident experts might have on the site and/or bird tracker. If you know of somebody who might be interested in using the site please do also spread the word!

Any feedback I can pass on (or you can also send a message directly using the form at the bottom of the website) would be really appreciated.

The website is at http://www.birdsgottaspotemall.co.uk