And for that reason Paul you've every reason to feel sad too, I think we all do in that respect.
Paul Richardson said
Fri Feb 7 10:11 PM, 2014
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Recent improvements to the site such as the superb Ramsdales Ruck and the recent Ramsdales Reedbed only add to the huge value of the site but there is much more in the pipeline to bring some of the old site back but more importantly to look forward and improve what we already have. Hopefully some of that work will be done this year but money is always the issue and we are reliant on grants etc, for which those involved do a great job in getting the coppers together. So, yes, there are people working very hard to improve the habitats for both birds and birders around the flash but in this modern era things are not as easy as they might first appear and the days of just going out and digging something, chopping something down or planting something are long gone I'm afraid. Planned work takes time, longer than I or anyone else would like, but time nonetheless and we just have to be patient but all I can say is that its future looks as bright and the proposed work is exciting for both birds and birders alike.
There may well be more mileage in voluntary work, something I have discussed previously at site meetings there, but there'll be more on that as, when and if its possible.
I couldn't agree more, Ian - Ramsdale's whole area is amazing, and as the theme of my original post clearly stated, I think Pennington is really something to value and appreciate. Of course it's very multifunctional, and I guess it IS unrealistic to expect a return to past local authority resourcing. Don't get me wrong - nothing about PF makes me feel sad, except that we are apparently as a society unable to find a way to give such a gem of a place something more than the (it seems) overstretched personpower it is relying on at the moment.
I really hope voluntary work is something that can be expanded, and thanks Mr Woosey for the info about LWT - really interesting to know all that is going on and I will certainly be looking at joining up.
Mr Woosey said
Fri Feb 7 9:02 PM, 2014
Paul Richardson wrote: I don't know what goes on locally or in a wider context to try to improve the situation. Is there anything like a "Friends of the Flash" group? I would be very keen to get together with others or to join in with anything that is already happening to preserve/improve Penny.
Hi Paul,
As John has stated, Lancashire Wildlife Trust does occasional habitat work at Pennington Flash. They have an office in Wigan (at Three Sisters), and work very closely with Wigan Leisure and Culture Trust. LWT manage all the LNRs in Wigan (Wigan Flashes, Low Hall, Borsdane Wood, Three Sisters, Greenslate), as well as Lightshaw Meadows, Kirkless and Amberswood nature reserves. They carry out practical Consevation work four days every week. Last week, for instance, I worked on a Rhododendron & Japanese Knotweed "bashing day" at Greenslate Water Meadows, and this Sunday is coppicing work at Amberswood. These days, as has been pointed out, local councils do not have the resourses to manage nature reserves. It is down to volunteers. I would advocate to everyone the importance of joining Lancashire Wildlife Trust, and then volunteering with them to help maintain and protect our nature reserves. Nobody else is going to do it for us.......
-- Edited by Mr Woosey on Friday 7th of February 2014 09:03:45 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Feb 7 1:41 PM, 2014
Inevitable deterioration of the site? Was Pennington Flash really that much better for birds and birding in the 80's, 90's or indeed any other time?
There has admittedly been some deterioration of the site, and with no offence intended to anyone whatsoever, much of that has come from a time when there were plenty of rangers available too but do we see more bird species than ever at the flash on any particular visit? Yes. Though there is a mink problem on site the same as anywhere else these day it seems, a problem which is undergoing the long process of being addressed I might add, the number of red and amber bird species breeding on site is higher than any year before too.
I agree that work done in the 80's was fabulous but many things were different then and the site was pretty much a blank canvas too. Those who remember the flash from those years will remember a site reasonably treeless and pretty baron in parts and whilst many may wish for those days again, the diversity of species now found on site could never be replicated in those days.
Recent improvements to the site such as the superb Ramsdales Ruck and the recent Ramsdales Reedbed only add to the huge value of the site but there is much more in the pipeline to bring some of the old site back but more importantly to look forward and improve what we already have. Hopefully some of that work will be done this year but money is always the issue and we are reliant on grants etc, for which those involved do a great job in getting the coppers together. So, yes, there are people working very hard to improve the habitats for both birds and birders around the flash but in this modern era things are not as easy as they might first appear and the days of just going out and digging something, chopping something down or planting something are long gone I'm afraid. Planned work takes time, longer than I or anyone else would like, but time nonetheless and we just have to be patient but all I can say is that its future looks as bright and the proposed work is exciting for both birds and birders alike.
With regards the rangers though, we just have to unfortunately accept the modern climate and the manner in which cuts to council budgets impacts on easy targets like wildlife and the like. With cuts to public services running into hundreds of millions of pounds, as much as we might not like it, we can't expect them to throw money at places like the flash. Its a fact of life, as much as I might not like it but no amount of 'pressure' is going to bring that back currently. There may well be more mileage in voluntary work, something I have discussed previously at site meetings there, but there'll be more on that as, when and if its possible.
So, I wonder why we might feel 'sad' when we wander around the site, a site which lies in a now very highly populated county/borough but a site which has better paths, more hides, a greater diversity of species and habitats at any time of year and available walks ranging from five minutes to five hours? Rather than looking back at what the site used to be we should be looking forward at was is being done or what could be done. To that end, I as always, remain more than happy to accept suggestions for the site (privately please) from birders, which I might then take forward to be discussed at future site meetings. It is 'your' site after all
JOHN TYMON said
Fri Feb 7 11:48 AM, 2014
Paul Richardson wrote:
I agree that it is sad to see the inevitable deterioration at this great site. Being a newbie and not (as yet) involved in the local society, etc, I don't know what goes on locally or in a wider context to try to improve the situation. Is there anything like a "Friends of the Flash" group? Can those of us who are concerned apply pressure in the right quarters and, as Martyn suggests, try to raise people's awareness of how we are watching the decline of a very precious facility? I would be very keen to get together with others or to join in with anything that is already happening to preserve/improve Penny.
There has been a pennington flash users group as long as I can remember with representatives from the Leigh Ornithological society,and local fishing clubs etc but as with many country parks these days the rangers have felt the brunt of redundancies as they are not classed as vital services to councils.and to have volunteer groups these days its a nightmare with health and safety regs and risk assessments,that make most manual work difficult. These days you need to wear a hard hat to put peanuts out for the birds. There is currently at penningon flash some work being done by the Lancashire wildlife trust volunteers,but that will never replace what they used to have in the 1980s,when all the work was in the main habitat work ,which was done for in the main birds,and was led by a team of likeminded rangers and a few dedicated volunteers like myself and headed by Charlie Owen,who created all the scrapes and habitats we have used and enjoyed for so long.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 7th of February 2014 09:06:46 PM
Paul Richardson said
Fri Feb 7 8:59 AM, 2014
I agree that it is sad to see the inevitable deterioration at this great site. Being a newbie and not (as yet) involved in the local society, etc, I don't know what goes on locally or in a wider context to try to improve the situation. Is there anything like a "Friends of the Flash" group? Can those of us who are concerned apply pressure in the right quarters and, as Martyn suggests, try to raise people's awareness of how we are watching the decline of a very precious facility? I would be very keen to get together with others or to join in with anything that is already happening to preserve/improve Penny.
JOHN TYMON said
Fri Feb 7 6:49 AM, 2014
Martyn Jones wrote:
I think you may have misunderstood me John, I was (admittedly rather obscurely) referring to the fact that we value Penny highly and so the powers that be i.e. Wigan, should be looking after it instead of disbanding the ranger service, closing hides at 3pm in Spring, allowing the boating area to expand and letting Mink predate the Wildlife. If it was in the local news more often with stories like this one, perhaps they'd realise how much we value it and do more to keep it one of the best birding sites in the region.
John Tymon Wrote
That is a worrying situation at penny now. The lack of a ranger service is impacting on the place as anyone who goes regularly knows, I remember a time when there were 9 rangers on site and a thriving visitors centre, and talk of a café etc, now the ranger service has gone and the ones left do their best covering many sites and basically ensure the toilets are clean and gates locked at local parks etc, which is a shame for a fantastic site like penny. :(
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 7th of February 2014 06:50:13 AM
Martyn Jones said
Thu Feb 6 11:35 PM, 2014
I think you may have misunderstood me John, I was (admittedly rather obscurely) referring to the fact that we value Penny highly and so the powers that be i.e. Wigan, should be looking after it instead of disbanding the ranger service, closing hides at 3pm in Spring, allowing the boating area to expand and letting Mink predate the Wildlife. If it was in the local news more often with stories like this one, perhaps they'd realise how much we value it and do more to keep it one of the best birding sites in the region.
JOHN TYMON wrote:
I don't think penny needs its birding profile raised much as its been the premier county site for over 50 years,and still is by the way! , and any local birder who does not know that already, isn't a birder at all and as for the general public needing to know about penny, Its like Blackpool even on a wet winter Sunday, so I think penny is well known Enough already by the people who read the local papers.
The Penny thread has more posts than any other on the this site, with almost daily postings on here. and the Leigh ornithological society was formed 43 years ago basically to record the birds that were being seen at the flash, so a lot of people have been doing something wrong for a very long time, if its local public profile needs raising at all, but its great that Pauls family enjoyed penny more than any other place they visited and not a surprise as the north bank reserve is one of the most compact reserves, with more hides per mile than any other free reserve possibly in the country.
-- Edited by Martyn Jones on Thursday 6th of February 2014 11:38:40 PM
Dennis atherton said
Thu Feb 6 11:07 AM, 2014
I always enjoy my visits here. There is always a good chance of something turning up at any time of year. Not just migration periods. I actually started my birding interest here as a youngster and saw my first rare bird. 1983 Great Grey Shrike with Dave thacker if I remember correctly.
Bernard McGurrin said
Wed Feb 5 12:14 PM, 2014
Penny Flash is invaluable on bad weather days like today, as already stated the hides are quite close together and if you wish you can still get a good days birding in and keep reasonably dry, and of course the number of relatively scarce birds that drop in mean you are always capable of spotting something out of the ordinary, as John says THE premier county site and bar the small parking charge if you come by car, absolutely free.
JOHN TYMON said
Tue Feb 4 10:08 PM, 2014
Martyn Jones wrote:
Great to have such a 'good news' story as this Paul. You should send it in to the local papers along with some of your photos and help raise the profile of Penny in our own area too.
I don't think penny needs its birding profile raised much as its been the premier county site for over 50 years,and still is by the way! , and any local birder who does not know that already, isn't a birder at all and as for the general public needing to know about penny, Its like Blackpool even on a wet winter Sunday, so I think penny is well known Enough already by the people who read the local papers.
The Penny thread has more posts than any other on the this site, with almost daily postings on here. and the Leigh ornithological society was formed 43 years ago basically to record the birds that were being seen at the flash, so a lot of people have been doing something wrong for a very long time, if its local public profile needs raising at all, but its great that Pauls family enjoyed penny more than any other place they visited and not a surprise as the north bank reserve is one of the most compact reserves, with more hides per mile than any other free reserve possibly in the country.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 5th of February 2014 07:49:53 AM
Martyn Jones said
Tue Feb 4 5:38 PM, 2014
Great to have such a 'good news' story as this Paul. You should send it in to the local papers along with some of your photos and help raise the profile of Penny in our own area too.
Paul Richardson said
Tue Feb 4 12:38 PM, 2014
We had family staying with us this last weekend who are keen birders. In view of the stormy weather coming in from the west, we took a trip over to Fairburn Ings near Leeds (RSPB reserve) and had a great few hours in very pleasant scenery, with a good tally of 40 species.
That said, it was Sunday afternoon at Pennington Flash which proved the more interesting occasion for our guests from SE England. Penny was heaving with people enjoying the almost spring-like sunshine, the sailing club was out racing on the main flash, meaning that Ramsdale's was incredibly dense with gulls, grebes, and goosander. OK our Swarovsky-scopers didn't find any unusual gulls, but the big count of goosander, 35 pochard, even more great crested grebe, all within excellent observation range from Rammie's reedbed area, and no less than 16 pairs of gadwall from Teal hide, made for an impressive start.
The icing on the cake for them, interestingly, was the time spent in Bunting Hide. Now here's a place we take for granted, but when chatting afterwards, they made the point that the vast majority of reserves put their feeding station out near the entrance, and have at most an observation screen. Birds are prone to be put up en masse by passing groups of people, or photographers trying to get closer. To have a sizeable hide right up close to the feeders is a real bonus. And of course, Penny gave us "the usuals" - bullfinch (quite a rarity for our guests), nuthatch, stock doves, even a redwing on the ground! Finally, having had a mere glimpse of a willow tit at Fairburn Ings, we had a great view (as usual of course) of one of our Pennington willow tits just before we left.
All of which goes to show that while Penny has its frustrations, it's a brilliant place for the sheer variety of viewpoints on offer, and the locations of the hides themselves. For all that we sometimes feel "things ain't what they used to be" there, with predation, lack of wardens etc, it definitely got a big thumbs up from our visitors.
I couldn't agree more, Ian - Ramsdale's whole area is amazing, and as the theme of my original post clearly stated, I think Pennington is really something to value and appreciate. Of course it's very multifunctional, and I guess it IS unrealistic to expect a return to past local authority resourcing. Don't get me wrong - nothing about PF makes me feel sad, except that we are apparently as a society unable to find a way to give such a gem of a place something more than the (it seems) overstretched personpower it is relying on at the moment.
I really hope voluntary work is something that can be expanded, and thanks Mr Woosey for the info about LWT - really interesting to know all that is going on and I will certainly be looking at joining up.
Hi Paul,
As John has stated, Lancashire Wildlife Trust does occasional habitat work at Pennington Flash. They have an office in Wigan (at Three Sisters), and work very closely with Wigan Leisure and Culture Trust. LWT manage all the LNRs in Wigan (Wigan Flashes, Low Hall, Borsdane Wood, Three Sisters, Greenslate), as well as Lightshaw Meadows, Kirkless and Amberswood nature reserves. They carry out practical Consevation work four days every week. Last week, for instance, I worked on a Rhododendron & Japanese Knotweed "bashing day" at Greenslate Water Meadows, and this Sunday is coppicing work at Amberswood.
These days, as has been pointed out, local councils do not have the resourses to manage nature reserves. It is down to volunteers. I would advocate to everyone the importance of joining Lancashire Wildlife Trust, and then volunteering with them to help maintain and protect our nature reserves. Nobody else is going to do it for us.......
-- Edited by Mr Woosey on Friday 7th of February 2014 09:03:45 PM
There has admittedly been some deterioration of the site, and with no offence intended to anyone whatsoever, much of that has come from a time when there were plenty of rangers available too but do we see more bird species than ever at the flash on any particular visit? Yes. Though there is a mink problem on site the same as anywhere else these day it seems, a problem which is undergoing the long process of being addressed I might add, the number of red and amber bird species breeding on site is higher than any year before too.
I agree that work done in the 80's was fabulous but many things were different then and the site was pretty much a blank canvas too. Those who remember the flash from those years will remember a site reasonably treeless and pretty baron in parts and whilst many may wish for those days again, the diversity of species now found on site could never be replicated in those days.
Recent improvements to the site such as the superb Ramsdales Ruck and the recent Ramsdales Reedbed only add to the huge value of the site but there is much more in the pipeline to bring some of the old site back but more importantly to look forward and improve what we already have. Hopefully some of that work will be done this year but money is always the issue and we are reliant on grants etc, for which those involved do a great job in getting the coppers together. So, yes, there are people working very hard to improve the habitats for both birds and birders around the flash but in this modern era things are not as easy as they might first appear and the days of just going out and digging something, chopping something down or planting something are long gone I'm afraid. Planned work takes time, longer than I or anyone else would like, but time nonetheless and we just have to be patient but all I can say is that its future looks as bright and the proposed work is exciting for both birds and birders alike.
With regards the rangers though, we just have to unfortunately accept the modern climate and the manner in which cuts to council budgets impacts on easy targets like wildlife and the like. With cuts to public services running into hundreds of millions of pounds, as much as we might not like it, we can't expect them to throw money at places like the flash. Its a fact of life, as much as I might not like it but no amount of 'pressure' is going to bring that back currently. There may well be more mileage in voluntary work, something I have discussed previously at site meetings there, but there'll be more on that as, when and if its possible.
So, I wonder why we might feel 'sad' when we wander around the site, a site which lies in a now very highly populated county/borough but a site which has better paths, more hides, a greater diversity of species and habitats at any time of year and available walks ranging from five minutes to five hours? Rather than looking back at what the site used to be we should be looking forward at was is being done or what could be done. To that end, I as always, remain more than happy to accept suggestions for the site (privately please) from birders, which I might then take forward to be discussed at future site meetings. It is 'your' site after all
There has been a pennington flash users group as long as I can remember with representatives from the Leigh Ornithological society,and local fishing clubs etc but as with many country parks these days the rangers have felt the brunt of redundancies as they are not classed as vital services to councils.and to have volunteer groups these days its a nightmare with health and safety regs and risk assessments,that make most manual work difficult. These days you need to wear a hard hat to put peanuts out for the birds.
There is currently at penningon flash some work being done by the Lancashire wildlife trust volunteers,but that will never replace what they used to have in the 1980s,when all the work was in the main habitat work ,which was done for in the main birds,and was led by a team of likeminded rangers and a few dedicated volunteers like myself and headed by Charlie Owen,who created all the scrapes and habitats we have used and enjoyed for so long.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 7th of February 2014 09:06:46 PM
Can those of us who are concerned apply pressure in the right quarters and, as Martyn suggests, try to raise people's awareness of how we are watching the decline of a very precious facility? I would be very keen to get together with others or to join in with anything that is already happening to preserve/improve Penny.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 7th of February 2014 06:50:13 AM
I don't think penny needs its birding profile raised much as its been the premier county site for over 50 years,and still is by the way! , and any local birder who does not know that already, isn't a birder at all
The Penny thread has more posts than any other on the this site, with almost daily postings on here. and the Leigh ornithological society was formed 43 years ago basically to record the birds that were being seen at the flash, so a lot of people have been doing something wrong for a very long time, if its local public profile needs raising at all, but its great that Pauls family enjoyed penny more than any other place they visited and not a surprise as the north bank reserve is one of the most compact reserves, with more hides per mile than any other free reserve possibly in the country.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 5th of February 2014 07:49:53 AM
That said, it was Sunday afternoon at Pennington Flash which proved the more interesting occasion for our guests from SE England. Penny was heaving with people enjoying the almost spring-like sunshine, the sailing club was out racing on the main flash, meaning that Ramsdale's was incredibly dense with gulls, grebes, and goosander. OK our Swarovsky-scopers didn't find any unusual gulls, but the big count of goosander, 35 pochard, even more great crested grebe, all within excellent observation range from Rammie's reedbed area, and no less than 16 pairs of gadwall from Teal hide, made for an impressive start.
The icing on the cake for them, interestingly, was the time spent in Bunting Hide. Now here's a place we take for granted, but when chatting afterwards, they made the point that the vast majority of reserves put their feeding station out near the entrance, and have at most an observation screen. Birds are prone to be put up en masse by passing groups of people, or photographers trying to get closer. To have a sizeable hide right up close to the feeders is a real bonus. And of course, Penny gave us "the usuals" - bullfinch (quite a rarity for our guests), nuthatch, stock doves, even a redwing on the ground! Finally, having had a mere glimpse of a willow tit at Fairburn Ings, we had a great view (as usual of course) of one of our Pennington willow tits just before we left.
All of which goes to show that while Penny has its frustrations, it's a brilliant place for the sheer variety of viewpoints on offer, and the locations of the hides themselves. For all that we sometimes feel "things ain't what they used to be" there, with predation, lack of wardens etc, it definitely got a big thumbs up from our visitors.