Hi Keith The only catch is how do we find out how many females there is and that is even harder to fathom out that's for sure.
Jimmy
keith mills wrote:
Jimmy Meadows Posted today.....
''Note it could be that we have up to 6 singing Cettis Warblers on the flashes at present which if right is remarkable !! Jimmy''
Can't help being a little jealous, Jimmy. That could be a great number for Wigan! However there is hope for us over here as I have just read that ''Cetti's Warbler have shown the greatest range expansion(+6,783%) in Britain over the last 40 years of any species''. If I've read this right( and I quote Dawn Balmer the Bird Atlas Coordinator) we might get a few over here sooner than later.
Keith Mills said
Sat Mar 29 8:51 PM, 2014
Jimmy Meadows Posted today.....
''Note it could be that we have up to 6 singing Cettis Warblers on the flashes at present which if right is remarkable !! Jimmy''
Can't help being a little jealous, Jimmy. That could be a great number for Wigan! However there is hope for us over here as I have just read that ''Cetti's Warbler have shown the greatest range expansion(+6,783%) in Britain over the last 40 years of any species''. If I've read this right( and I quote Dawn Balmer the Bird Atlas Coordinator) we might get a few over here sooner than later.
Mike Chorley said
Wed Dec 4 7:12 PM, 2013
Rob Creek wrote:
Hi Mike, A word you mentioned below...Cygnus Cygnus and Cygnet come from Latin for young Swan whereas the Greek for Swan is Kukno or Kuknos. But out of interest the constellation Cygnus the Swan is often depicted as a Swan diving and is actually related to Greek Mythology where a character called Cygnus or Cycnus (best friends with Phaeton) used to reach his head underwater to look for Phaeton's body after he died. The gods turned him into a Swan, and in reality Swans seldom, if ever, dive...but they do spend considerable time looking as though they are in thought or looking for something and then reach their heads underwater as if looking for Phaeton.
Hope this is of interest. Ciao!
Hi Rob,
That's a third mythological "Cygnus" then , to go with the son of Apollo who drowned himself in Lake Canopus when he was unlucky in love, and the son of Poseidon who fought in the Trojan War and was strangled with his own helmet strap! Both candidates for the ornithological metamorphosis Of course it's all just because some Greek astronomer joined up four stars into an asymetric cross and thought it looked like a swan in flight
Incidentally, my friend from Kew says that in botany surnames are pronounced as in their original language, but as long as people can understand what you mean it doesn't have to be too exact. Then he had the cheek to say that ornithologists don't do it properly anyway because we double up family & specific names, like Puffinus puffinus
Rob Creek said
Wed Dec 4 2:17 AM, 2013
Mike Chorley wrote:
Steve Suttill wrote:
Mike Chorley wrote:
Unless you're using the scientific name, in which case, just to confuse things, it should be 'K'!
Surely it's only pronounced with a "K" if it's of Greek origin, Mike?
The species was named after 18th-century Italian zoologist Francesco Cetti.
My Italian is no better than my Greek I have to admit
I'm not quite sure of the rule with Proper Names in scientific nomenclature, but C in Classical Latin seems to be reckoned as a hard 'k' sound (Kaesar, kaput, katapulta, kastra) rather than the soft 'ch' of Church Latin & Italian (Chesare, chinzano, chiao,). The only names I can think of immediately (Clavius, Copernicus) would have had a k sound anyway (Klau, Kopernicus). Having said that there are some scientific names which are spelled with a C which have an S sound - Cygnus, for example!
I've a friend who works at Kew I could ask, but not until the end of next week
Hi Mike, A word you mentioned below...Cygnus Cygnus and Cygnet come from Latin for young Swan whereas the Greek for Swan is Kukno or Kuknos. But out of interest the constellation Cygnus the Swan is often depicted as a Swan diving and is actually related to Greek Mythology where a character called Cygnus or Cycnus (best friends with Phaeton) used to reach his head underwater to look for Phaeton's body after he died. The gods turned him into a Swan, and in reality Swans seldom, if ever, dive...but they do spend considerable time looking as though they are in thought or looking for something and then reach their heads underwater as if looking for Phaeton.
With regards to Cetti's... Everyone who commented below, it is definitely 100% Cetti's (Chetti's) in this case and after the Italian zoologist as Tim says, but beware, just because it's an Italian c, it doesn't mean all are pronounced ch. I work for an Italian company. eg. Cantuccini biscuits. ( kantoocheeni ) Cotechino sausage. ( kotekeeno ) Ricotta. ( rikotta ) Prosciutto Cotto. ( proshooto kotto ) As a general rule if a C is followed by an E or I then it will almost always be pronounced Ch, eg Limoncello and Cetti's.
Hope this is of interest. Ciao!
Mike Chorley said
Thu Nov 14 3:38 AM, 2013
Steve Suttill wrote:
Mike Chorley wrote:
Unless you're using the scientific name, in which case, just to confuse things, it should be 'K'!
Surely it's only pronounced with a "K" if it's of Greek origin, Mike?
The species was named after 18th-century Italian zoologist Francesco Cetti.
My Italian is no better than my Greek I have to admit
I'm not quite sure of the rule with Proper Names in scientific nomenclature, but C in Classical Latin seems to be reckoned as a hard 'k' sound (Kaesar, kaput, katapulta, kastra) rather than the soft 'ch' of Church Latin & Italian (Chesare, chinzano, chiao,). The only names I can think of immediately (Clavius, Copernicus) would have had a k sound anyway (Klau, Kopernicus). Having said that there are some scientific names which are spelled with a C which have an S sound - Cygnus, for example!
I've a friend who works at Kew I could ask, but not until the end of next week
Tim Wilcox said
Thu Nov 14 3:37 AM, 2013
John Doherty wrote:
Tim Wilcox wrote:
Francesco Cetti was a Jesuit priest who studied the flora and fauna of Sardinia. The warbler was named after him so it's FranCHesco and CHetti all the way. After Cetti Alberto della Marmora continued studies of the island and sent specimens to Franco Andrea Bonelli at Turin University. Two more Italians whose names appear in our bird guides. Unfortunately the Italian relationship with nature has not been so enlightened in more recent times
It's easy to remember, it's like the 'ch' it 'twitch'
supporters in the blue half of this fair town will have hoped it's pronounced something akin to 'City's Warbler,' but no ... and so-fa so wrong with Settee's warbler!
It's easy for me to remember as when grasping the Croatian language they have - which corresponds to our 'tch' here; but also 'C' which is like 's' and also which is the softer, subtler 'tch'
Some confusion here John. Neither the naming of the warbler nor our Jesuit Italian priest have anything whatsoever to do with Croatia, Croation (properly Croat or Serbo-Croat) which is a Slavonic language. So no clue as to where that came in! I was hoping there would be more interest in Cetti being part of a group of pioneering Italian zoologists...
John Doherty said
Thu Nov 14 2:57 AM, 2013
Tim Wilcox wrote:
Francesco Cetti was a Jesuit priest who studied the flora and fauna of Sardinia. The warbler was named after him so it's FranCHesco and CHetti all the way. After Cetti Alberto della Marmora continued studies of the island and sent specimens to Franco Andrea Bonelli at Turin University. Two more Italians whose names appear in our bird guides. Unfortunately the Italian relationship with nature has not been so enlightened in more recent times
It's easy to remember, it's like the 'ch' it 'twitch'
supporters in the blue half of this fair town will have hoped it's pronounced something akin to 'City's Warbler,' but no ... and so-fa so wrong with Settee's warbler!
It's easy for me to remember as when grasping the Croatian language they have - which corresponds to our 'tch' here; but also 'C' which is like 's' and also which is the softer, subtler 'tch'
Tim Wilcox said
Thu Nov 14 1:33 AM, 2013
Francesco Cetti was a Jesuit priest who studied the flora and fauna of Sardinia. The warbler was named after him so it's FranCHesco and CHetti all the way. After Cetti Alberto della Marmora continued studies of the island and sent specimens to Franco Andrea Bonelli at Turin University. Two more Italians whose names appear in our bird guides. Unfortunately the Italian relationship with nature has not been so enlightened in more recent times
Steve Suttill said
Wed Nov 13 5:44 PM, 2013
Mike Chorley wrote:
Unless you're using the scientific name, in which case, just to confuse things, it should be 'K'!
Surely it's only pronounced with a "K" if it's of Greek origin, Mike?
The species was named after 18th-century Italian zoologist Francesco Cetti.
My Italian is no better than my Greek I have to admit
Paul Hurst said
Wed Nov 13 6:48 AM, 2013
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Cetti's with a 'ch' Jon
Well, there goes 4 years of "setti's" down the drain.
Mike Chorley said
Wed Nov 13 4:27 AM, 2013
Unless you're using the scientific name, in which case, just to confuse things, it should be 'K'!
Jon Taverner said
Tue Nov 12 6:17 AM, 2013
Thanks Ian.
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Nov 12 6:03 AM, 2013
Cetti's with a 'ch' Jon
Jon Taverner said
Tue Nov 12 5:26 AM, 2013
Over the past week or so, many forum members plus others have visited the Flash to see/hear this bird. Some are convinced that it is said with a 'ch' start whilst others say it is a soft 's' e.g. like the start of 'settee'. Which is correct?
The only catch is how do we find out how many females there is and that is even harder to fathom out that's for sure.
Jimmy
''Note it could be that we have up to 6 singing Cettis Warblers on the flashes at present which if right is remarkable !!
Jimmy''
Can't help being a little jealous, Jimmy. That could be a great number for Wigan!
However there is hope for us over here as I have just read that ''Cetti's Warbler have shown the greatest range expansion(+6,783%) in Britain over the last 40 years of any species''.
If I've read this right( and I quote Dawn Balmer the Bird Atlas Coordinator) we might get a few over here sooner than later.
Hi Rob,
That's a third mythological "Cygnus" then
Incidentally, my friend from Kew says that in botany surnames are pronounced as in their original language, but as long as people can understand what you mean it doesn't have to be too exact. Then he had the cheek to say that ornithologists don't do it properly anyway because we double up family & specific names, like Puffinus puffinus
Hi Mike,
A word you mentioned below...Cygnus
Cygnus and Cygnet come from Latin for young Swan whereas the Greek for Swan is Kukno or Kuknos.
But out of interest the constellation Cygnus the Swan is often depicted as a Swan diving and is actually related to Greek Mythology where a character called Cygnus or Cycnus (best friends with Phaeton) used to reach his head underwater to look for Phaeton's body after he died. The gods turned him into a Swan, and in reality Swans seldom, if ever, dive...but they do spend considerable time looking as though they are in thought or looking for something and then reach their heads underwater as if looking for Phaeton.
With regards to Cetti's...
Everyone who commented below, it is definitely 100% Cetti's (Chetti's) in this case and after the Italian zoologist as Tim says, but beware, just because it's an Italian c, it doesn't mean all are pronounced ch. I work for an Italian company.
eg. Cantuccini biscuits. ( kantoocheeni )
Cotechino sausage. ( kotekeeno )
Ricotta. ( rikotta )
Prosciutto Cotto. ( proshooto kotto )
As a general rule if a C is followed by an E or I then it will almost always be pronounced Ch,
eg Limoncello and Cetti's.
Hope this is of interest.
Ciao!
I'm not quite sure of the rule with Proper Names in scientific nomenclature, but C in Classical Latin seems to be reckoned as a hard 'k' sound (Kaesar, kaput, katapulta, kastra) rather than the soft 'ch' of Church Latin & Italian (Chesare, chinzano, chiao,). The only names I can think of immediately (Clavius, Copernicus) would have had a k sound anyway (Klau, Kopernicus). Having said that there are some scientific names which are spelled with a C which have an S sound - Cygnus, for example!
I've a friend who works at Kew I could ask, but not until the end of next week
It's easy to remember, it's like the 'ch' it 'twitch'
supporters in the blue half of this fair town will have hoped it's pronounced something akin to 'City's Warbler,' but no ... and so-fa so wrong with Settee's warbler!
It's easy for me to remember as when grasping the Croatian language they have - which corresponds to our 'tch' here; but also 'C' which is like 's' and also which is the softer, subtler 'tch'
Surely it's only pronounced with a "K" if it's of Greek origin, Mike?
The species was named after 18th-century Italian zoologist Francesco Cetti.
My Italian is no better than my Greek I have to admit
Well, there goes 4 years of "setti's" down the drain.