Had quite a few grasshoppers on my local patch last year. Not sure whether I noticed them because of the lack in previous years or not.....if you see what I mean.

Mike Passant wrote:

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Concerning insect populations, is it just me up here, or have grasshoppers all but disappeared?

As a kid I used to see them everywhere in virtually any grassy patches, but I realised a while ago I haven't seen a single one for a long time (years in fact).

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Good point Mike, I hadn't thought of this but I now hear more Grasshopper Warblers around Elton than Grasshoppers, this can't be good for our birdlife.
Cheers Ian

-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Tuesday 12th of May 2015 05:07:46 PM

Concerning insect populations, is it just me up here, or have grasshoppers all but disappeared?

As a kid I used to see them everywhere in virtually any grassy patches, but I realised a while ago I haven't seen a single one for a long time (years in fact).

Thanks for your message, Steve. The empty places are well away from arable land: I'm convinced that there's a serious problem regarding insect populations, at least among some lowland grassy areas.

The populations of both Meadow Pipits and Skylarks on the eastern moors in the county seems healthy enough - but little, if any, insecticide is used up here. Is the decline due to spraying in arable farmed areas?

Apart from an early April flock of migrant Meadow Pipits, the Atherton South area appears to have failed to attract any breeding pairs, and Skylark numbers are certainly well down from the 20 or so last month. There also appears to be a dearth of Meadow Pipits at Bickershaw and a few regular haunts on moorland edges. Is this worrying situation widespread? The shortage of insects among the grassy ares where I've plodded recently could well be a serious factor in explaining their absence.

-- Edited by Dave Wilson on Monday 11th of May 2015 11:14:46 AM

Bill,

what an interesting and informative post - thanks.

I see meadow pipits all year above Stalybridge, ranging from hundreds in the summer months to a handful in winter, and knew some moved to lower levels and the coast, but assumed those remaining were local birds. Your post leaves room for doubt about that. I now have a vision in my head of Wild Bank Moor being a type of "Time Share" for meadow pipits!

Thanks again,

David

Not in GM but was surprised to see a flock of 37 Meadow Pipits cross the ridge west of Moel Famou late on this evening - and that was in addition to all the small parties of birds I usually see up there. It was this thread that made me pay more attention than normal, so thank you!

Neil Ferguson wrote:

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I thought they were resident?

Where are they going?

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Hi Neil,

To some the Meadow Pipit might be classed neither as a resident nor as a migrant species but as a partial migrant, in that it is thought , as Craig noted, that whilst many of our summering population clear out to farther flung areas for the winter months, some are thought to remain more locally. Some of the following snippets are not my own thoughts but selected bits picked out largely from the weighty but excellent 2002 BTO publication "The Migration Atlas".

As to where they are going to? Some movements might involve altitudinal movements (this species largely but not totally vacating their upland breeding areas) and moving to lower levels inland and to coastal areas too. I know from my own experiences at Piethorne that in some year's very small numbers of Meadow Pipits can sometimes be found on the moorlands in the winter months. Whether these are some of the same birds that were there in the summer might well be open to debate? Additionally, as Craig has mentioned earlier Iberia is a favoured destination and The Migration Atlas states that "Although most British and Irish Meadow Pipits winter in the Iberian Peninsula, many remain within Britain and Ireland all year." Maybe one additional point worth mentioning is that the wintering range is thought (like several other species) to depend on the severity of the winter weather. The lowlands of Britain and Ireland; western continental Europe; the Mediterranean basin and northwest Africa are suggested as likely wintering areas. I suppose the "thinking" behind such a migration strategy is, why travel considerable distances unnecessarily (with all the inherent risks) if you don't really have to?

I often wonder where birds have originated from that are counted at local watch points and seen migrating over GM airspace. My own thoughts (for what they are worth!) on the birds seen moving through post-breeding. Logic might suggest that earlier movements might be British birds, who largely seem to have vacated their breeding areas by August and one would think that those seen/heard in late September and October might be foreign birds? If these later birds are indeed foreign birds then I have no information on where they might end up wintering. However logic may not always be a safe bet - perhaps somewhat surprisingly the 2010 GM County Bird Report notes that for visible migration of Meadow Pipits on the Horwich Moors that year that up until the last week of September birds passed through in a north-westerly direction, before movements turn to possibly the more expected southerly based directions. Was this just a one-off for that particular year or part of a regular pattern? Where are these birds moving north-west going to? Do they then remain where they are headed or are these just temporary movements and are they then counted again, if they later decide to move back southwards?

Going slightly off at a tangent but other bits which I thought of interest were that The Migration Atlas suggests that alongside the movement of British and Irish birds there is a substantial through passage of Icelandic and Scandinavian birds. It is reported that there was strong evidence that the origins of Meadow Pipits on west coast passage in the UK lay in south-east Greenland, Iceland and the Faeroes, whereas east coast passage probably involves continental birds. Limited ringing data hints that Britain and Ireland may be important from a conservation viewpoint as a stopover area for this species? However, there was no evidence to show that foreign Meadow Pipits winter in Britain and Ireland.

So still lots of sizeable gaps in our knowledge and plenty of further interesting questions being thrown up. Why do some species appear to have a strategy of partial migration, where some of the population moves good distances, whilst others remain more locally? What are the costs and benefits to that population of having such a strategy? What factors come into play on who "decides" to stay and who goes? A whole, massive topic in itself! Quite, quite fascinating to think about though.

Phil - I too really enjoyed reading your article - plenty of interesting observations on weather factors and timing of daily movements and certainly more to ponder on too.

Regards,


Bill.

Hi

Circa 800 Meadow Pipit over Burton Outer Marsh yesterday morning between 9.00am and midday, but I think that the overall movement over the marsh as a whole, was far greater than just the birds that passed over where I was sat.









Denzil

Phil Barnett wrote:

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When I lived in Wilmslow in the 90's I was wheelchair-bound due to illness
- I got to do a lot of garden birdwatching!

I did a daily count of meadow pipits flying over the garden in the autumn of 1996.

My report was published here
http://www.cawos.org/bn35.pdf (page 25)



-- Edited by Phil Barnett on Saturday 28th of September 2013 03:12:31 PM

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Very interesting report Phil.

I've got something similar to you regarding the cloud vs clear sky results. When I go birding on my patch, I count the number of Meadow Pipits I hear overhead, and yesterday (when it was a beautiful day) I got nowhere near as many birds as the week before (when there was a complete cloud cover and the weather was pretty rotten).

Of course other factors could have been involved in my case (I can't make a conclusion based on two counts!), but I'll certainly pay more attention to the effect of the weather on the current Meadow Pipit migration.

Cheers

Paul

Craig Higson wrote:

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Neil - Many breeding birds head off to France and Iberia, with a few making N. Africa. But yes, some do remain all year. Well, at least that's my understanding.

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Thanx Craig

Neil - Many breeding birds head off to France and Iberia, with a few making N. Africa. But yes, some do remain all year. Well, at least that's my understanding.

When I lived in Wilmslow in the 90's I was wheelchair-bound due to illness
- I got to do a lot of garden birdwatching!

I did a daily count of meadow pipits flying over the garden in the autumn of 1996.

My report was published here
http://www.cawos.org/bn35.pdf (page 25)



-- Edited by Phil Barnett on Saturday 28th of September 2013 03:12:31 PM

I thought they were resident?

Where are they going?

Totally agree , I have watched the numbers build up over the past couple of weeks on Bickershaw Rucks. I haven't managed to get out for first light this year, so will have missed the bulk of them in the first hour, but in the past have watched them stood on Top Rucks, (you can see Wales, Peak District, Fiddlers Ferry power station, the hills round Wigan and of course Winter Hill), so is a good vantage point as they pass overhead. Quite a spectacle even on a misty morning when you can hear them but not see them.

There's no better time of the year than now! 1,600 over Winter Hill on Sunday Craig, although numbers are well down on previous years by the looks of it, unless we've got lots more to come yet!? Its great watching flocks of 30 and 40 flying over the moor and carrying across over Manchester at about a 1,000 feet up. Numbers through Spurn seem to be similar to last year though according to Trektellen.

Yes, it's definitely a phenomena that is easily overlooked, but once noticed is quite addictive. I've not had opportunity so far this autumn to indulge in any visible migration counts, but have still enjoyed hearing Meadow Pipits passing over home in the morning, or over town as I walk to the office. It's surprising how the high-pitched call of the Pipits is easily heard over traffic noise once you're tuned in to it. About ten years ago I war curious as to the extent that they passed over in a broad front and how many you could log passing over Wigan town centre, so I made sure to go to the top level of the multi-storey on a couple of occasions. Spending half an hour by the car before leaving the car park showed that it was a good vantage point for picking up Pipits passing over the town centre - though given the choice I'd rather be somewhere else to watch the migration!

I agree Craig. I love this time of year when everything is on the move and at the heart of it you have this mass movement of Meadow Pipits. I always record any movement on my own patch and on several occasions over the years I've had over 100 birds pass over during short visits. Their call as they migrate is as much a part of autumn as the leaves dropping from the trees.

Is it just me that thinks this is one of the most under 'appreciated' phenomena in GM. Don't get me wrong I appreciate its not like the big thrush or geese movements where flocks fill the sky. Nor is it as easy to see as it would be at, say, Spurn. But, for the past few mornings as I've been going to the car there has been numerous Sreep calls going over. There must have been a sizeable movement over the past few days but how many people are seeing ( or recording) it?