I thought I left a reply yesterday but its gone. It was much longer than this, but in a nutshell I agree with the comments below!

My comments are brief: Proper quality website, no complaints whatsoever

Ian, my perception of you, having never met you, is of someone trying to run a good quality (even great) forum which has been of tremendous use to me these last few months. I completely understand why you want bird names to be spelled correctly and have no problem with it whatsoever. Admittedly though, I have been tempted to type Blackwit or Med Gull when my hands are freezing at seven in the morning in an effort to get the news out, but its still not a problem to me. I also perceive you as trying to be as professional as possible when it comes to birds (and this forum) and it has never entered my head that you are a 10ft ogre. You deleted one of my posts recently due to the sensitivity of the birds involved and I had no problem with it whatsoever and would not have a problem in future - although I hope I don't give you reason to as I've fully read the sticky notes. I also agree that you should simply delete posts you deem unacceptable, as regards spelling birds and sensitivity issues.

I say keep it up Ian, you're doing a magnificent, if not very difficult job. By the way, how tall are you?

And also to Paul, (did I meet you at Rumworth for the Brent Goose?) who said he reports his sightings with some trepidation due to the elitism Ian mentions. I have what I consider a certain amount of experience when it comes to birds, less than other birders in some cases and more than other birders in others - if you get what I mean. I hope that the experience I've gained has made me a better birder and I know that I'm the best birder that I personally could possibly be (forgetting everyone else) and that's what all that matters. Even with 32 years experience I find I'm still on the learning curve and will still be learning up until I pop my clogs. It does not matter in the slightest how far along that learning curve you are as long as you put the birds first, try to be the best birder you can possibly be and forget about the stigma surrounding experience. I never consider myself to be a better birder than anyone else (never will) and I'm sure I'll never learn everything Birds - but I'll try. So please do report your sightings Paul. You never know, you just might get something all the elite guys and gals come flocking to see!

Paul, inexperience matters not one jot anyway. The Manchester Birding website and forum were set up FOR the inexperienced, not those who were already active within the county. There seems to be an underlying feeling of experienced versus inexperienced on here sometimes (not from your comments by the way Paul but from those little whispers that usually end up making their way back to me) with the latter feeling the former finds them irritating.

Put it this way; I've always been lucky, been a very active birder in the county, known the right people, moved in the right circles and therefore had access to all the county's bird information. If you didn't though, then you had practically no idea and felt very isolated. Birders in the west of the county didn't know those in the east, we wondered if the south had any at all and were frightened by the twelve-toed northern lot. This always frustrated me though because as much as this will come as a shock to many it seems, I absolutely despise elitism and looking down on others because of an apparent lack of experience. I know some very good inexperienced birders and some very poor experienced ones!! So, this forum in particular was set up PURELY so everyone, no matter where you lived, who you knew or what experience you had, could access the county's bird sightings as much as 'those in the know' and so we all could get to know each other.

To add my twopenneth worth and as an incomer to all things Manchester I have to say that whatever Ian feels he needs to do to protect the quality of the forum and the wider website is alright by me.
Having had an early mis-identification (Willow / Marsh Tit) corrected by Ian in a manner that allowed me to learn from the experience and was given access to resource that would help me improve through the process I see no shame in having the opportunity to learn from those with more knowledge (experienced or inexperienced) and think the way that they mistakes are corrected shouldn't cause offence to anyone. There is also the private message option which we all have access to to query each others sightings.
I've also used the website to find my way around the birding hotspots of Manchester, to find new sites across the county and to get the most out of some of the better known sites. As well as using the opportunities to put faces to names and engage in conversation all of which have added to the pleasure of birding days.
As for the spelling it's just important to get it right - how hard can it be ????

So a fantastic resource and long may it continue.

I only have one problem with the site and that's the pictures of those bl@@dy gulls in the mystery bird comp - next year I'll get them right I swear.

-- Edited by Jon Bowen on Monday 15th of April 2013 08:35:07 PM

As a novice Birder (and how long will it take me to get beyond that???) I REALLY appreciate this forum and the website, and have massively expanded my birding efforts as a result. What the site has done for me is to get me to local places other than the well-known RSPB reserves, and some of my most exciting observations to date have been at places like Astley Moss which I would never have bothered about without the site guides.

I do sometimes contribute with some trepidation, knowing that when I report having seen a couple of Goldneye, the "pros" are all thinking, "Who is this novice who didn't see the other 23 further over......?" But on two occasions when you had to remove or edit my posts, Ian, I was more than happy and appreciated you doing it because one was a breeding bird, and the other a much maligned duck which might have had its life terminated by officialdom! Can't really object to a bit of editing on that basis, surely?

Recently I found myself reading about my own sins of omission, too: that is, I have never reported my sightings other than on the forum. "I have left undone those things which I ought to have done, and there is no health in me!" I promise to try to remedy this if my inexperienced burblings are of any value to anybody.......!

All part of the exciting learning curve which is Birding.

Keep up the good work - I doubt there's many other such active forums about any subject on the web.

Paul.

As Roger so aptly demonstrates, it's so easy to get hold of the wrong end of the stick

Despite all these emoticons, it's so easy to misinterpret the tone of what someone has typed - a friendly word of advice can easily come across as a critical comment.

Don't worry, Ian, Keep calm and carry on moderating

Your seemingly innocent post on the forum could spell disaster for the birds. Just consider what you post.

............................................................................................................

Couldn't agree with you more on this one Mark .......... the postings that put me more on edge are the "any other wildlife" hare sightings ...... makes it a great resource for the dogging fraternity ...... still more than a few of them knocking about.

Roger.

PS. "dogging fraternity" as in owners of running dogs ....... that's before anybody gets smart !

In my opinion not only the forum but the website (what's this I hear you say-website?) is just fine and the 730,000 views a month sort of proves that. I must say I find it frustrating meeting new and experienced birders who are fully aware of the forum, but are blissfully unaware of the website and the wealth of information it holds.

As for bird names, is it really that difficult to get them right. As Mr.Johnson rightly states "Haven't we all got a suitable bird book as reference? If you weren't sure of a birds ID in the field, would you refer to your field guide or would you take a wild stab in the dark and guess its identity?

At the end of the day, the most important thing is the birds welfare. As Ian says, it's now the time of year where we all have to be mindful of our posts. Not all people who read the post on the forum are doing so for pleasure or looking at it for the latest 'tick', but for something far more sinister. Your seemingly innocent post on the forum could spell disaster for the birds. Just consider what you post.

As for 8 or 10ft, I think 4ft is nearer the mark!

Worth a try. Its a pity there is not one. I was hoping a spellchecker that could be specific for here with all spellings and correct bird names in it too.Like you say other spellcheckers actually miss spell some birds names. I will keep at it with bird book in hand. Keep up the good work. Cheers

Im onside with both comments here, i am really sorry to read that Ian feels some people are not happy about the way this forum is run, im am sure this is a very very very small minority, and to be honest as the saying goes it is hard to please all the people all the time, so may i suggest if these people are so unhappy about things then please just move on, dont ruin it for the rest of us who use, enjoy and are grateful for this great website and forum,


On a more positive note, i am a rubbish speller, always have been and using email with spellchecker for me is a god send, at the top of this typing box there is lots of controls for changing the text, adding url links and stuff, wouldent it be great if it would be possible to add a spellchecker to the website to help the bad spellers like me, the only other easy way is to type out the text somewhere else, spellcheck, then copy and paste to here, a spellchecker on here would be a nice little addition

if were having 730,000 views then the birds names should be spelt correctly or we are actually making it worse by miss-spellings by posting the incorrect spellings and many many people seeing this

I totally agree with Ian in that the 'advertising' the presence of certain sensitive species is not to be tolerated. Yes, its easy to make a mistake, and I personally have fallen foul of this, but as Ian states there is a 'sticky' at the top of the page with the forum rules which every user should have read so there should be no excuses, or even occurrences.

Nor should 'we' the users be spelling bird names incorrectly. Haven't we all got a suitable bird book as reference?

Its a shame that, as Ian observes, users are being over sensitive to edits and corrections when in fact they as the original poster are in the wrong. Can I suggest that those users that have their forum posts corrected etc, talk to Ian directly to understand why he has corrected them. Whilst he will have his reason, he will listen to your pint of view.

At the end of the day though, it's Ian's forum and therefore his rules, which are in place not only to allow all GM birders to enjoy one another sightings, but also to protect birds and their habitats, hence the repeated requests for official submissons for the county report. Surely we whould all make more effort given the effort Ian makes to run the forum, go birding, write the county report, write identification articles, plus go to work and spend time with his family etc etc etc.

We should all be a little more considerate of Ian's requests, edits and corrections, and also his time, of which he gives up a lot in order to maintain this forum when he could be out birding and finding rarities for us all to enjoy!

I can also confirm that he is not a ten foot, fire breathing, binocular wielding beast; more like eight foot

It kinda goes without saying now that as we're coming into the breeding season it is all our responsibilities to be considerate as to what we post regarding breeding, or potentially breeding, birds. Please take the time to read the sticky posts on the top of the sightings page if you're unsure about the guidelines. These guidelines are there strictly for the birds themselves and in many cases are borne out of advice and discussions with many other birders. I will delete any posts not suitable for a public forum entirely and make no apology for that; the birds are what's important here.

While I'm on though, it also seems that I can do no right these days; despite trying extremely hard to keep my head down and remain low profile, people simply perceive me as a forum ogre who over moderates! Last rumour I heard I was ten foot tall, shot fire out of my arse, slaughtered inexperienced birders on sight with my Swarovskis and had a hit out on anyone who dared use 'LRP'. Fact is, if you'd rather I let this forum go the same way as seemingly all others, then here's your chance to let me know.

Do you think misspelled birds names should be okay on this forum? Chiff Chaff, Tree Creeper, Great-spotted Woodpecker etc etc are all increasingly misspelled and why? Because we perpetuate such spelling by getting it wrong on here first and yes, it is no secret that my own spelling is distinctly crap! Does it really matter though? Do the birds deserve the respect of having their names spelled correctly or should we really bother to take the time to get them right anyway? Have your say.

It seems whatever I do I'm damned these days. Over moderation and God forbid, correcting people with only good intentions when they're wrong; its little wonder I don't actually post much myself these days. Yes, its my forum and yes, I think I am right to be proud of its higher than any other other standards which 'we' maintain (all of us) and yes, while I'm paying for the 730,000 views a month I'll have some say but you use it and I am interested for you to have your say too, whether that be privately to me or indeed on this thread; this is your chance (and I promise to suspend all hits for the thread's duration...).

I've looked into a spell checker (it would help me immensely too!) but one isn't currently available, though the ones on my iPhone and laptop work for me when typing into the forum. As I've stated previously though, general spelling isn't really my concern; I'm not going to preach to others when mine can be so bad too but bird's names I can't help feeling we should be taking the time to get them right. I know some users utilise a spell checker for birds names (in a Word document or similar) in order to get them right and in fact it is the spell checker which splits names such as Tree Creeper, Chiff Chaff, Black Bird etc!

And as to why I don't inform individuals of my editing to their posts when I do it (I'm sure you're out there wondering), moderating this forum is practically a full time job in itself in order to keep up with the fantastic amount of daily posts (for which I'm very grateful indeed) and I really just don't have the time to contact each and every user each time I have to amend misspelled birds names; of course you are always welcome to contact me to ask why or indeed complain.

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Sunday 14th of April 2013 10:33:26 PM