Just a footnote here: Tony Darby and myself did make our criticisms of the new hides directly to a staff member Sunday before last. And PPS The staff were all excellent and extremely helpful.
-- Edited by Tim Wilcox on Monday 3rd of October 2011 02:55:09 PM
paul brady said
Mon Sep 26 10:07 AM, 2011
sid ashton wrote:
Ian McKerchar wrote:
.......Worse still, and the real reason I try to avoid them, is what you miss flying over. Sitting in your little wooden box, staring though a little slot, craning your neck trying to make out that interesting raptor that just flew over. So you get up and dash out, the floor bounces like a bouncy castle, ............
I too don't like hides for this reason. Perhaps this was the purpose of having the extra glass above the opening windows in the new hide at Burton
a. Both the Reception Building and the Marsh Covert hide has massive input from several RSPB staff members, thats a lot of years of birdwatching experience
b. The Marsh Covert hide was designed with everybody in mind and with a mind to giving as much view as possible (as Ian and Sid mention)
c. If its raining I generally wouldn't open the windows (but we are looking to sort this problem)
d. The window was designed to accomodate a birdwatcher sitting down AND a tripod user stading up behind them.
e. Any feedback is welcome, there were 4 staff members around yesterday yet none of the negative info recieved via this forum was heard of in person??? Why sit and be angry about this all the way home when you can have a two-way discussion with a person?
Thoughts?
Tim Wilcox said
Mon Sep 26 12:27 AM, 2011
Don't get me wrong folks - the facilities at Frodsham Marsh were excellent!
sid ashton said
Sun Sep 25 9:59 PM, 2011
Ian McKerchar wrote:
One assumes they have little window washers and wipers then Sid...?
Now why didn't I think of suggesting that to Mr Wells ?
Ian McKerchar said
Sun Sep 25 9:43 PM, 2011
One assumes they have little window washers and wipers then Sid...?
sid ashton said
Sun Sep 25 9:19 PM, 2011
Ian McKerchar wrote:
.......Worse still, and the real reason I try to avoid them, is what you miss flying over. Sitting in your little wooden box, staring though a little slot, craning your neck trying to make out that interesting raptor that just flew over. So you get up and dash out, the floor bounces like a bouncy castle, ............
I too don't like hides for this reason. Perhaps this was the purpose of having the extra glass above the opening windows in the new hide at Burton
JOHN TYMON said
Sun Sep 25 8:59 PM, 2011
Ian McKerchar wrote:
I remember Charie's hide there in the early 80's John as it was my local patch then and I still have a shot of nine Green Sandpipers and mega close up Snipe which I took from it! As for someone using it as a toilet, I think you'll find that the sludge lagoons at Tyldelsey SW were infact pretty much open toilets anyway
yer not wrong ,I tripped up as I was leaving the hide,and went face first which led to me being barred from GM buses for life,after the driver stopped the bus at butts bridge and lobbed me off because I had emptied the top deckHe said I smelt like a sewerage farmso I lobbed my camera,and 400mm lens in the nearest bin,and walked it home through the centre of leigh,with everyone giving me a wide birth.
Ian McKerchar said
Sun Sep 25 8:45 PM, 2011
I remember Charie's hide there in the early 80's John as it was my local patch then and I still have a shot of nine Green Sandpipers and mega close up Snipe which I took from it! As for someone using it as a toilet, I think you'll find that the sludge lagoons at Tyldelsey SW were infact pretty much open toilets anyway
JOHN TYMON said
Sun Sep 25 8:23 PM, 2011
Ian McKerchar wrote:
I'm surprised at the level of interest in bird hides recently. I'm really not sure what we expect but typically we forget (or have perhaps never experienced) what bird hides really used to be like. Boy, we've come a long way (anyone remember the wooden packing case hide at then Thelwall Eyes years ago, please don't tell me it's still there?) but I still generally avoid them like the plague unless its absolutely necessary.
They are all too often full of folk talking very loudly (nearly always with what rarity they recently twitched somewhere or where they're going on the holidays, all with the usual "oh, you're going to Tenerife are you, well we went to elevenarife last year" element of trying to out do each other), all seemingly ignoring the birds in front of them. They nearly all bounce when birders come in or out or attempt to scratch their arse and are often full of photographers with six foot footprint tripods, ten foot long lenses which dangle out of the windows and brush the heads of feeding waders and sound like a minigun at full tilt, rattling off a few hundred rounds per seconds (but obviously I really appreciate those images don't forget guys ). Worse still, and the real reason I try to avoid them, is what you miss flying over. Sitting in your little wooden box, staring though a little slot, craning your neck trying to make out that interesting raptor that just flew over. So you get up and dash out, the floor bounces like a bouncy castle, the photographers try to kill you because you ruined their two hundreth Canada Goose shot of the day, the door slams behind you (as they all too often do) and all the birds on the whole scrape get up and depart. You can hear the swearing in the hide, hide clamps being undone in readiness to crack you across the head as you come back in but you're too scared to go back in for your scope, so you leave it and leg it back to the car park. Nah, not my cup of tea
Personally, I think the bus shelter at Hesketh is spot on, real birding with the absolute minumum of comforts. A bit of a roof to direct the howling wind right into your face, some wooden shelves to rest your face on (and get splinters) when you're taking a break from searching through those thousands of waders. Ah yes, that's more like it
John Tymon Wrote
nay lad that sounds like luxury to me that hesketh outmarsh and thellwall packing case,tha should have done 7 hours in the 1 foot wide by 3 foot high hide,in the middle of the sewerage pans on Tyldesley sewage works that charlie used to have on fert waders in the 1970s,in 100 degrees late summer sunshine,and some beggar had been usin it has a toilet for weeks,an as tha time went on threwt day ,the deck chair charlie had left in there sank further and further down till tha was sat flat ont floor,and the only bird I saw all day was a dead snipe .naw thats real birding
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Sunday 25th of September 2011 08:24:14 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Sun Sep 25 7:52 PM, 2011
I'm surprised at the level of interest in bird hides recently. I'm really not sure what we expect but typically we forget (or have perhaps never experienced) what bird hides really used to be like. Boy, we've come a long way (anyone remember the wooden packing case hide at then Thelwall Eyes years ago, please don't tell me it's still there?) but I still generally avoid them like the plague unless its absolutely necessary.
They are all too often full of folk talking very loudly (nearly always with what rarity they recently twitched somewhere or where they're going on the holidays, all with the usual "oh, you're going to Tenerife are you, well we went to elevenarife last year" element of trying to out do each other), all seemingly ignoring the birds in front of them. They nearly all bounce when birders come in or out or attempt to scratch their arse and are often full of photographers with six foot footprint tripods, ten foot long lenses which dangle out of the windows and brush the heads of feeding waders and sound like a minigun at full tilt, rattling off a few hundred rounds per seconds (but obviously I really appreciate those images don't forget guys ). Worse still, and the real reason I try to avoid them, is what you miss flying over. Sitting in your little wooden box, staring though a little slot, craning your neck trying to make out that interesting raptor that just flew over. So you get up and dash out, the floor bounces like a bouncy castle, the photographers try to kill you because you ruined their two hundreth Canada Goose shot of the day, the door slams behind you (as they all too often do) and all the birds on the whole scrape get up and depart. You can hear the swearing in the hide, hide clamps being undone in readiness to crack you across the head as you come back in but you're too scared to go back in for your scope, so you leave it and leg it back to the car park. Nah, not my cup of tea
Personally, I think the bus shelter at Hesketh is spot on, real birding with the absolute minumum of comforts. A bit of a roof to direct the howling wind right into your face, some wooden shelves to rest your face on (and get splinters) when you're taking a break from searching through those thousands of waders. Ah yes, that's more like it
sid ashton said
Sun Sep 25 6:40 PM, 2011
Tim did you pass these comments to Colin Wells and or one of the other RSPB guys over at Burton Mere? I am sure that they would have been interested to hear what you have to say.
I have also visited the new facility, see my Wirral post yesterday and spoke to several folk all of whom seemed to be enjoying their visits. I too had some comments which I passed on to Colin.
Given the fact that they have all put in such a big effort I feel it is unfair to slate them on this open forum so soon into the new venture.
P S You forgot to include the hide at Leighton Moss - re your posting January 31st this year. If the new Burton Mere hide is as bad as you say it should solve that problem for you
Tim Wilcox said
Sun Sep 25 5:28 PM, 2011
Dear oh dear! I've just visited the new 'Burton Mere" visitor centre/hide and the other new hide with Tony Darby. The visitor centre does not work as a combined hide - far too much hubbub - and the window prohibits good scope viewing of the scrape in front of it. The other hide - ostensibly a 'proper' hide is more disappointing still. The windows are lowered outward on hinges mounted at the bottom. They are quite large panes and the device for lowering them onto metal brackets topped with rubber and mounted outside, is just a metal pole with no grip and no proper leverage as it's fixed at the bottom instead of the top. It will not be long before one is dropped dangerously smashing a pane. When they are open they will just fill with rain water which will then tip back into the hide on closing. Or bounce the rain off into you face. There is another pointless window above each openable section and more pointless fixed glass in between. Then the 3/4" ply shelf sticks out too far but is not properly secured so it wobbles about all over the place - even when your hide pole is not being further vibrated by the bouncy floor. Why oh why can't the RSPB/WWT actually consult birders before they bring in architects or landscape gardeners who've never been birding to design these things?
So let's start nominations for HORRIBLE HIDES. I'll start the ball rolling with:
1. Hesketh Out Marsh. Not a hide at all but a pointless elaborate bus shelter with shelves to which it would be impossible to fix a hide pole. The wind whips through. A total waste of timber.
2. What I call the Injun Hide at Martin Mere. An expensive children's playground with mounds of huge planks and glazing piled up to look like some Iroquois chief's Lodge or something. The hatches accessible from bar stools are just weird and the windows don't open in relation to where you need to fix your scope. Luckily there's usually nothing to see except some L Grebes and Tufties.
-- Edited by Tim Wilcox on Monday 3rd of October 2011 02:55:09 PM
a. Both the Reception Building and the Marsh Covert hide has massive input from several RSPB staff members, thats a lot of years of birdwatching experience
b. The Marsh Covert hide was designed with everybody in mind and with a mind to giving as much view as possible (as Ian and Sid mention)
c. If its raining I generally wouldn't open the windows (but we are looking to sort this problem)
d. The window was designed to accomodate a birdwatcher sitting down AND a tripod user stading up behind them.
e. Any feedback is welcome, there were 4 staff members around yesterday yet none of the negative info recieved via this forum was heard of in person??? Why sit and be angry about this all the way home when you can have a two-way discussion with a person?
Thoughts?
I too don't like hides for this reason. Perhaps this was the purpose of having the extra glass above the opening windows in the new hide at Burton
yer not wrong ,I tripped up as I was leaving the hide,and went face first which led to me being barred from GM buses for life,after the driver stopped the bus at butts bridge and lobbed me off because I had emptied the top deck
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Sunday 25th of September 2011 08:24:14 PM
They are all too often full of folk talking very loudly (nearly always with what rarity they recently twitched somewhere or where they're going on the holidays, all with the usual "oh, you're going to Tenerife are you, well we went to elevenarife last year" element of trying to out do each other), all seemingly ignoring the birds in front of them. They nearly all bounce when birders come in or out or attempt to scratch their arse and are often full of photographers with six foot footprint tripods, ten foot long lenses which dangle out of the windows and brush the heads of feeding waders and sound like a minigun at full tilt, rattling off a few hundred rounds per seconds (but obviously I really appreciate those images don't forget guys
Personally, I think the bus shelter at Hesketh is spot on, real birding with the absolute minumum of comforts. A bit of a roof to direct the howling wind right into your face, some wooden shelves to rest your face on (and get splinters) when you're taking a break from searching through those thousands of waders. Ah yes, that's more like it
I have also visited the new facility, see my Wirral post yesterday and spoke to several folk all of whom seemed to be enjoying their visits. I too had some comments which I passed on to Colin.
Given the fact that they have all put in such a big effort I feel it is unfair to slate them on this open forum so soon into the new venture.
P S You forgot to include the hide at Leighton Moss - re your posting January 31st this year. If the new Burton Mere hide is as bad as you say it should solve that problem for you
So let's start nominations for HORRIBLE HIDES. I'll start the ball rolling with:
1. Hesketh Out Marsh. Not a hide at all but a pointless elaborate bus shelter with shelves to which it would be impossible to fix a hide pole. The wind whips through. A total waste of timber.
2. What I call the Injun Hide at Martin Mere. An expensive children's playground with mounds of huge planks and glazing piled up to look like some Iroquois chief's Lodge or something. The hatches accessible from bar stools are just weird and the windows don't open in relation to where you need to fix your scope. Luckily there's usually nothing to see except some L Grebes and Tufties.
3. The New Burton Mere hide cf above
The RSPB do make a good toilet though.