Alan Warford wrote:

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I 'm not sure if Bittern has been recorded in the present Bolton Borough before but Doffcocker, Rumworth and Red Moss all have enough Phragmites areas to support wintering Bitterns. Of course Bittern was recorded and seen by some of the present forum members at Belmont reservoir a few years ago, oh for the old boundaries.

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You should spare a thought for Italian birders - their Roman Empire list used to be massive with the old boundaries Mind you, they would have had to wait about another 1600 years for the Wigan Flashes to form, before they could have got Bittern there.

Thanks everyone for a very interesting thread.

I volunteer one day a week with Lancs Wildlife Trust at Wigan Flashes. The possibility of there being more bitterns present than reported is an interesting thought. When you consider that Wigan Flashes is the 2nd largest reedbed in the North West of England after Leighton Moss and that wonderful RSPB resereve has several comfortable hides in which to wait longer periods birding, would suggest you are always likely to have more reports from Leighton Moss.

Thanks again for an interesting discussion.
Gordon

I 'm not sure if Bittern has been recorded in the present Bolton Borough before but Doffcocker, Rumworth and Red Moss all have enough Phragmites areas to support wintering Bitterns. Of course Bittern was recorded and seen by some of the present forum members at Belmont reservoir a few years ago, oh for the old boundaries.

Definitely agree that the flashes could hold more that the two reported. In fact there are 1 or two quite large patches of phragmites in the reserve area at Pennington (out of sight unfortunately) that could hold another 1 or 2. Its great to think that we have such a good wintering population, now all we need is a couple to stay on and breed in the borough (GM that is) and whey hey!!

Nope, not necessarily Geoff. See the photo of one in the 2009 county bird report, roosting birds in a tree in a Doctors garden!

Craig,as Ian say,s the flashes may well play host to half a dozen birds and the recent
reports would indicate a least 2 are bobbing around,having dropped lucky on boxing day and actually watched a bittern at 'work', I was confounded by it,s speed through the reeds and the effectiveness of it,s camaflauge when 'bitterning',i,m sure it,s easy to
walk past one,so we may always be kept guessing about the numbers.

While we are on the subject,there is a picture at the Three Sisters of a bittern in a tree
??? I always thought they,d roost deep in the reed bed,any thoughts or info

cheers geoff

They certainly not commuting Craig. One at Hope Carr a week or so ago too, perhaps likely to be one of the Pennington birds? Frankly, Wigan Flashes could well host half a dozen and other sites (Elton, Rumworth to name two) could easily have birds tucked away.

So, how many do we think there are? There have been reports of two at Wigan Flashes, now two at Pennington. Four Bitterns in the Borough would be fantastic, but is it reasonable to actually state 4, or are we looking at two commuting? Any thoughts?