a bit off the topic but then it had to go somewhere,chatting to worker at a local tip I was disapointed to find out that he,d had to take down over thirty nest boxe.s cos the 'suit'
said they made the place look untidy

cheers geoff

just an addition to my earlier post, there has not been any problems with misbehaving anybodies for us at any other hides at Penny and i would never be so forward to suggest that access to the park should be restricted in any way, I merely wanted to point out that due to it's almost hidden position slightly off the main path it seems to bring out the worst in people because they are not seen from the main path, we are relatively new to Penny and throughout the spring,summer and autumn months frequented every hide and walked the canal, and the entire trip around the main lake on several occasions and have an absolutley fantastic day birding, walking and chatting with a variety of people, yet three times at Ramsdales we have had to leave due to misbehaviour of one kind or another! This is not a rant or a "Walter Mitty" it's just our observation and in no way intended to upset anyone. We love going to Penny and will continue to do so even though it is not our patch, any problems with foolish behaviour is out of our control and will not stop us enjoying the place. The hard work that has been put in by people to make the area accesible to everyone has to be commended and anyone that gives their time for such should be . Without the playpark being there it would be almost impossible to get my 6 year old to come and have his 10 minute play before hometime! As for us I had to apologise to Helen in teal hide once as my six year old was getting a little over the top so even we are not perfect visiters to the park. My only point in my original post was the hidden nature of the new hide has some draw backs. After all people are people!

Rob Thorpe wrote:

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JOHN TYMON wrote:

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maybe i just should not bother and be like all the other people who winge about the people,dogs etc but turn up everytime a rarity appears at penny.

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I take offence at that!

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good

JOHN TYMON wrote:

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maybe i just should not bother and be like all the other people who winge about the people,dogs etc but turn up everytime a rarity appears at penny.

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I take offence at that!

Helen Jones wrote:

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My comments weren't intended to cause offense, and certainly weren't a dig at anyone on the forum. Apologies if they have been interpreted as such.

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no worries helen,its probably me,im a tetchy begger at times

My comments weren't intended to cause offense, and certainly weren't a dig at anyone on the forum. Apologies if they have been interpreted as such.

My my, late night John

I personally don't see anything wrong with Helens post and I really don't think she was having a dig at you or anyone else. If she was, I certainly can't see it

So, to you all out there...

I'd stayed out of the debate, mainly as I was down at Cornwall at the time and mainly as John had already quite rightly defended the site and said what needed to be said. As a regular of 28 years myself I never have had nor do have a problem with dog walkers, kids, parents or anyone else there, I just know where and when to go to avoid them if needs be. As for the alleged 'scroats', well you should all see their equivilent in and around parts of central Manchester, then you'd think Pennington's youths (of which must avoid me like the plague as I never see any?) weren't actually that bad! Grebe lodge at Pennington (a hide near to where Ramsdales is now) was burned down well over 20 years ago so vandalism is no new thing anywhere.

This thread started out about the destruction of the bird plaques in the hide and Peter Alker who made and painted them knew very well they were likely to be 'removed' as we discussed it a couple of times. Despite this he felt he atleast had to give them a go and either way, one of the Kingfishers ones now looks resplendant on my patio wall (joking of course...).

We live in an urban area and Pennington Flash is THE most popular outdoor recreational location of it's kind in the county, so we all know what to expect. It positively cries out for more birder coverage though, the kind bestowed on sites like Elton Reservoir and with it would definately turn up more birds, no doubt what so ever. Before this forum birders to Pennington would rarely let anyone know about their sightings as most were just passing through but now, with the opportunity to post your sightings, things have improved vastly. What we dont need though is unfounded, factless or over-reacted instances to sour the generally fantastic reputation of the site. There are far, far worse locations in the county and this site and forum are all about promoting our county birding not knocking it. We are all very quick to get out of the county when we can (myself included) to go birding elsewhere and generally rave about those sites and how great they are. But we do little for site within the county, sites that are truely fantastic but don't get visited as there are no hides and are hard work to cover. Get up to the Horwich Moors on a clear day, Light Hazzles on a fresh winter morning, Barrow Bridge or the mosslands on a summers day or Watergrove in spring as there are few locations in the north west that can rival their beauty. Personally, sitting in hides all day with loads of other birders is not my cup of tea so I never go to Martin Mere and rarely Leighton moss, it's all horses for courses.

So, get yourself a full walk around the entire flash and see what you think then, I recon I can amass a species list at most times of the year which would rival if not beat most sites in the north west of England

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Sunday 1st of November 2009 04:21:44 PM

Helen Jones wrote:

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JOHN TYMON wrote:

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brandon mulhern wrote:

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The people issue is the same everywere,go to martin mere at weekends,or leighton moss which is now apparently push chair friendly

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I'm a keen birdwatcher with three kids and so welcome the fact that leighton moss is pushchair friendly. The way to stop kids growing up to be trouble-making scroats is, in my opinion, to introduce them to nature early and teach them to respect it. I encourage my kids to visit the hides, look for birds through their binns, ask questions and generally enjoy places like Pennington Flash and Leighton Moss. And OK, they don't always sit in complete silence - but they're kids.

Kids and families enjoying nature and birds should be encouraged, not frowned upon.

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Try reading my whole post,and you will see how out of contex you have quoted me there,my meaning was the last time i went leighton moss it was about as push chair freindly as the north pole with ,mud,pools that went up to your knees,just trying to get to the hides and hides where you had to climb step ladders to get in,so it must have changed a lot.
i was trying to defend the general public and can only speak of pennington,if i hated push chairs,and children,do you think i would have been a penny flash patcher for 33 years?or spent 2 years of my life digging the areas the general public see for free as a volunteer,
maybe i just should not bother and be like all the other people who winge about the people,dogs etc but turn up everytime a rarity appears at penny.

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Sunday 1st of November 2009 02:03:49 PM

Yesterday the rangers were giving out questionnaires inviting comments on the country park. There is a space at the end where one can add "Any other comments"...
I took 6 for Dave Wilson to give out.

Well said John.

brandon mulhern wrote:

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Having visited the new hide many times over the last few months we find that it seems to be a favourite place for the scroats to hang out and whenever we get settled in there always seems to be some idiot kicking a ball against the wooden fence outside the door or generally making a nuisence of themselves, it may be the fact it's slightly hidden from the main track and therefore gives more opportunity for mischief. This also may be because we only get the opportunity to get there on a weekend when the level of clientele is at it's worse!!

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unfortunately this debate about the north bank of pennington has gone on for 20 years since the play area went in,and to be honest pennington will always be no more than a country park,and anyone who is a regular there will realise that on the whole the birds and the areas at the front of the hides are not disturbed too much by the people who visit,its just the birdwatchers who get disturbed.
but in the end is there anywere in the north west,that has 8 free hides and areas for the birds at the front of these hides ,that a few people put a lot of hard work in to produce,and its still the best birding site anywere in GM.
Over 20 years ago a lot of these sites at pennington were produced on the whole by a few paid wardens(charlie owen etc)and a few unpaid volunteers.i did 2 years almost every day working with spades for no money to produce areas that are now the teal scrape etc,so very few people know the area as well as a small group of us,and there are more people than ever,but the hardy few learn that,the hides at penny are just a small part of of the whole as the slavonian grebe has shown in the last few days,if anyone wants to get away from the hoards of people at the weekends,just do the full circle,and find the birds away from these areas.
The people issue is the same everywere,go to martin mere at weekends,or leighton moss which is now apparently push chair friendly.Without the visitors that are not birdwatchers,and they probably outnumber birders at penny,by about 100 to 1,there wouldn't be any hides,because the revenue from the 10 or so hardy souls who watch the site,would not pay for 1 hide,and the only way you get grants is to prove its worth it for all.
so this is not a rant ,its just to say if anyone these days wants people free birding,then i think pennington is not the place for them,and i daupt there is anywere in britain thats accessable to the general public,free,but only has birders.
so just enjoy penny from that hide if you go early morning or late at night there are some great birds,only last week merlin was seen from there,little egret has been there,plus pintail,goosander,the list goas on,and the few idiots do get on my nerves to,but ive learned to put up with it ,penny is a special place,and theres no where id rather be,and its better than being in the factory all week like i am.No daupt ill be finding a few good birds tomorrow on therejust enjoy it,while you can
And also a hide full of birders,can be just as anoying sometimes as a hide full of none birders.sorry for any spelling mistakes ,it is 3am

Having visited the new hide many times over the last few months we find that it seems to be a favourite place for the scroats to hang out and whenever we get settled in there always seems to be some idiot kicking a ball against the wooden fence outside the door or generally making a nuisence of themselves, it may be the fact it's slightly hidden from the main track and therefore gives more opportunity for mischief. This also may be because we only get the opportunity to get there on a weekend when the level of clientele is at it's worse!!

At least they've got hides......

That's Lobby Gobblers for you! When I called into that hide last weekend (also for the first time) it seemed it wasn't just the birds inside the hide that were missing...

I called in at the new Ramsdales Hide at Pennington today, for the first time since it opened, and was quite frankly miffed. People went to some considerable trouble to produce lifesize painted 'sihouettes' of a number of bird spp that were fixed to the walls and ceiling, and there were also conveniently placed hooks at the side of each window to hang bags etc on. The hide hasnt been open much more than 12 weeks and at least three of the silhouettes have been damaged and all the hooks broken off. This might be a bit Walter Mitty, but it really really brasses me off.