Ian McKerchar wrote:

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Of course Anne, never a problem.

As for feeling embarrassed, I think your clearing up this episode for us is very commendable. Many would have buried their heads and let it all blow over without saying a word but owning up to what seems to be a genuine mistake only goes to enforce that it was just that. A mistake. We all make them and so long as we learn by them they can only go to making us better birders. Fortunately no harm was done along the way and hopefully we've all had the importance of our actions around any breeding birds brought to the fore.

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yep i second every word of that,don't let it worry you Anne ,we all make mistakes,me more than most even after 30+ years birding.keep posting

Of course Anne, never a problem.

As for feeling embarrassed, I think your clearing up this episode for us is very commendable. Many would have buried their heads and let it all blow over without saying a word but owning up to what seems to be a genuine mistake only goes to enforce that it was just that. A mistake. We all make them and so long as we learn by them they can only go to making us better birders. Fortunately no harm was done along the way and hopefully we've all had the importance of our actions around any breeding birds brought to the fore.

I am sorry Ian. I did not want to publicise my own name because I feel so embarrassed and traumatised by the whole incident. I am a Mancunian living in Lancashire and I meet many of the posters on here when I am birding in Manchester. I have been able to establish the true facts since I first communicated with Tony Cooper and I felt I had a moral obligation to defend the reputations of the GM birdwatchers. As far as I am aware, the only birdwatchers caught under the tree, on other occasions, were from Lancashire.

I will start posting on here in my own name in due course, but I cannot see how to change my user name. I also have to admit that I cannot open your private message to me. Could you email me please and explain it to me.

Thanks for that Tim do you really think I let my own guidelines slip and need reminding already in hand.

Pandion haliaeteus - the Osprey. Ian can you let people know they should use their real names not pseudonyms or usernames

Firstly it wouldn't be my buisness to portion blame in this instance (nor any other come to that). I never accuse or judge others without the full facts and my personal request for information was merely so that if the alleged county birders involved were not Manchester Birding website/forum users then I could atleast attempt to bring it to their attention.

It is highly admirable for Pandion (eh?) to give us the full story although Tony had already informed me of as much as he knew. It just goes to show how easy it is to let something slip and I'd urge any one with sensitive information to carefully consider who they give that information to. Basically, ask youself if they have any reasonable requirement to know?

Cheers




-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 14th of August 2009 11:30:00 PM

Ian Campbell wrote:

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I also read this on the ELOC site today, but was upset to read from Ian McK's post that it was a" birder from Bury", to blame. Hope the said person is feeling suitably gullity. Still, any Hobby would be very welcome at Elton.
Cheers Ian
Just realised that this sounds like I'm being flipant about disturbance of rare birds which is not my intention at all, sorry if that was the impression

-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Friday 14th of August 2009 10:19:59 PM

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Ian, I have just posted. The person to blame was not a Bury Birder.

I was present at the incident which led to Tony Coopers notice. I would like to put on record the fact that the people standing underneath the nest tree were photographers with expensive cameras, and a party of ramblers. (The nest tree is on a public footpath.) The birdwatcher (me) was at a safe distance. The birdwatchers from GM had left the site.

They had in fact been told about the Hobby nest by a resident of Rossendale when they were in a hide at Leighton Moss. It was not a case of one GM birdwatcher passing on the information to the others. No doubt the photographers got their information from the same source.

I know the four people from Bury and Greater Manchester who have visited this nest, and I can categorically state that they are all responsible birdwatchers who would never willfully disturb ANY bird, let alone a Sched 1. The fact that two of them did not locate the nest at all and were content to watch food passes says it all.

And for the record, I was the person who foolishly digiscoped a juvenile when it returned to the nest and I have been suitably reprimanded for not having a licence. With hindsight I should have realised that even a record shot of a Sched 1 bird at the nest is an offence.

The whole affair has been a salutary lesson to us all. The wartime slogan 'Careless talk costs lives' is just as relevant in the birdwatching environment as it was all those years ago. And its not enough to arm yourself with expensive optics and all the other paraphernalia, and bury your head in guidebooks and lists. You've got to get up to speed with the Wildlife and Countryside Act and most of all - you've got to use your common sense.

Pandion.
Lancashire

I also read this on the ELOC site today, but was upset to read from Ian McK's post that it was a" birder from Bury", to blame. Hope the said person is feeling suitably gullity. Still, any Hobby would be very welcome at Elton.
Cheers Ian
Just realised that this sounds like I'm being flipant about disturbance of rare birds which is not my intention at all, sorry if that was the impression

-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Friday 14th of August 2009 10:19:59 PM

Think this is a reminder to all us photographers,the birds welfare must always come first.such a rare breeding bird should never be desturbed when nesting,in fact no bird should be knowingly disturbed during the breeding season,ive witnessed a few photographers trying to get too close to birds only to scare them off
I found A birder this year flattening a reedbed at penny so he could get a clear shot through his scope,when he was that close he could have got it with his phoneyou can imagine what i said to him and he left,leaving me to pull the reeds back upbut i was rewarded a few weeks later with shots of the young on the adults back below horrocks hideso all of us give the birds a chance and they may become that common,that we can get good photographs of themand if you were thinkingmy avatar hobby shot was at pennington on passage and nowere near any nest.

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 14th of August 2009 06:50:06 PM

Some might think that this would be better placed in the 'out-of-county' birding section but as it has a great deal of relevance for us in Greater Manchester, here it is. I've often been accused of being 'over-zealous' in my removal and protocol of the posting of breeding species in the county but I'm afraid it's with good reason. In the last 2 or 3 days there has been considerable disturbance at a Hobby nest site in East Lancashire. It would appear that the precise location of the site has been made known by a birder from Bury and that a number of birders from Greater Manchester have been visiting the site. The section below has been sent to me by Tony Cooper of the East Lancashire Ornithologist' Club who has brought the events to my attention and I have included it here for all to hopefully read. I have left it un-altered and although it is directed at their county birders you can obviously see the relevance for us. If any one has any information on the events/persons involved then could they please contact me (for my benefit, no other reason) or if you were involved and have a different story of proceedings then please do so also. Cheers, Ian It is an offence to photograph Schedule 1 birds at the nest without a license, or to wilfully disturb them. In order to help protect such species the ELOC website does not publish nest site details of Schedule 1 birds. Might I request that local birders also think very carefully before passing on sensitive information about Schedule 1 bird’s nests either verbally or by email to any third party. Hobby is a Schedule 1 bird and sightings in East Lancashire have increased in recent years; at least one pair is known to have bred. Although this year’s young have now fledged, they are still at or around the nest site and completely dependent on the parents. Unfortunately, the precise location of this nest has become known. The result is that an increasing number of ‘birders’ have been visiting the site and actually standing under the nest tree. This disturbance is making the parents very agitated and preventing them from feeding the young; such deliberate visits to a known nest site of a Schedule 1 bird count as wilful disturbance and are therefore an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act. If you know where it is, please do NOT visit this nest site NOR pass on the location to any further persons. If, as seems likely, further nests are discovered in the future, do please pass the information in confidence to the club recorder, Derek Cook, but no further. The club does liaise with the Police Wildlife Protection Team on these matters and this will enable the sites to be discretely monitored.