Hi Simon and Henry, I'm sure Simon is correct in saying Amur Wag.( M. leucopsis) is a subspecies of M. alba in terms of the BOU current treatment. I got thoroughly tired of the constant juggling about; - lumping/splitting/lumping with "Clements" and have neither bought (nor followed) the 6th edition amendments, so am stuck in a "time warp" still using the 5th edition, in which M.leucopsis is treated differently, i.e. as a subspecies of Black-backed Wagtail (M. lugens). There are various treatments, with some proposing to lump virtually all these under White Wagtail, whereas others (possibly the Dutch) proposing to split them all!
I basically am a fan of the good old concept of retaining stuff as subspecies (wherever possible) as the contentious groups are evolving over varying time scales according to the particular selection pressures impacting on them. Who are we at any given time to pontificate in every case as to what stage in the speciation process every such subspecies/species has reached? As regards Amur Wagtail though, having seen it in China and counted it then as a Lugens subspecies following Clements, when I was lucky enough to see the Seaham bird, I own up; - I do count it as Lugens here as well; - after all it was a corker! Cheers, Mike P
Paul Wilson said
Thu Jul 23 10:09 AM, 2009
Simon Warford wrote:
Pacific Diver
That's an armchair tick for Sue and I. Still yet to see a BT Diver though!
Simon Warford said
Wed Jul 22 10:09 PM, 2009
Henry Cook wrote:
Am I right in presuming the wagtail is added as a subspecies of White Wag Simon?
Henry yeah, 3 races now Pied, White and Amur I believe.
Henry Cook said
Wed Jul 22 7:34 PM, 2009
Am I right in presuming the wagtail is added as a subspecies of White Wag Simon?
Simon Warford said
Wed Jul 22 2:01 PM, 2009
BOURC have today added the following to Cat A of the British List,
I must visit Crooke soon and put it on my `Escapes, Dodgy, & Potential Split` List
Now theres and interesting list Mr Woosey, I do believe i may have a chance with that list
keep birding
Ian Woosey said
Fri Jan 30 5:09 PM, 2009
Sadly it`s stuck in Category E at the moment Jimmy, but you never know........
I must visit Crooke soon and put it on my `Escapes, Dodgy, & Potential Split` List , the latest addition to which was a superb Harris`s Hawk at Birkdale beach yesterday !
Jimmy Meadows said
Fri Jan 30 4:12 PM, 2009
Ian Does that mean i still cant have me Chiloe Wigeon at Crooke
Jimmy
Ian Woosey said
Fri Jan 30 10:58 AM, 2009
This round-up is from the latest edition of `Birdwatch` magazine (Feb `09) ;
Hooded Merganser, Great Blue Heron, and Wilson`s Snipe have been accepted onto Category A.
Naumann`s and Dusky Thrush have been split as full species, as has Black-throated and Red-throated Thrushes. A further split is Green Warbler.
Deleted from the List is Madeiran Storm-petrel (from 1911, due to lack of supporting evidence).
If you follow BOU guidelines (which you should do, coz we`re British !) you can keep your G.M. Green-winged Teal !
Hi Simon and Henry,
I'm sure Simon is correct in saying Amur Wag.( M. leucopsis) is a subspecies of M. alba in terms of the BOU current treatment.
I got thoroughly tired of the constant juggling about; - lumping/splitting/lumping with "Clements" and have neither bought (nor followed) the 6th edition amendments, so am stuck in a "time warp" still using the 5th edition, in which M.leucopsis is treated differently, i.e. as a subspecies of Black-backed Wagtail (M. lugens).
There are various treatments, with some proposing to lump virtually all these under White Wagtail, whereas others (possibly the Dutch) proposing to split them all!
I basically am a fan of the good old concept of retaining stuff as subspecies (wherever possible) as the contentious groups are evolving over varying time scales according to the particular selection pressures impacting on them. Who are we at any given time to pontificate in every case as to what stage in the speciation process every such subspecies/species has reached?
As regards Amur Wagtail though, having seen it in China and counted it then as a Lugens subspecies following Clements, when I was lucky enough to see the Seaham bird, I own up; - I do count it as Lugens here as well; - after all it was a corker!
Cheers,
Mike P
That's an armchair tick for Sue and I. Still yet to see a BT Diver though!
Henry yeah, 3 races now Pied, White and Amur I believe.
Pacific Diver, Yellow Nosed Albatross,Glaucous Winged Gull, Amur Wagtail, Brown Flycatcher.
I must visit Crooke soon and put it on my `Escapes, Dodgy, & Potential Split` List
Jimmy
Hooded Merganser, Great Blue Heron, and Wilson`s Snipe have been accepted onto Category A.
Naumann`s and Dusky Thrush have been split as full species, as has Black-throated and Red-throated Thrushes. A further split is Green Warbler.
Deleted from the List is Madeiran Storm-petrel (from 1911, due to lack of supporting evidence).
If you follow BOU guidelines (which you should do, coz we`re British !) you can keep your G.M. Green-winged Teal !
www.bou.org.uk/recbrlst1.html
-- Edited by Ian Woosey at 11:23, 2009-01-30