Geoff, if I'd seen any of the 'reported' birds, it wouldn't have been points I'd have been scoring

Simon Johnson wrote:

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Its about being in the right place at the right time and having a bit of luck on your side!

you may have not have had much luck this year

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Luck on your side: well said that man . Dave Broome finished work tonight and had a spare few minutes so popped down to Scotmans Flash for a brief look as that's all he could manage. That was all it took for him to find the Red-throated Diver there though!

As for junior Warford not having much luck this year, am I the only one who looks at the list of species he's found and thinks he's had anything but a year lacking luck so far? That's a fair list of self-founds right there and testamony to the big effort he, like many other Touranmenteers, have maintained through thick and thin. I'd wager it's one of the best years (self-found or otherwise) that you've had in the county Simon involving some excellent birds and isn't that why we do this in the first place

The Tournament points are the same for everyone, Little Egret will be worth 20 points next year due to it's elevation to a full county rarity (it was also only worth 7 points when I found one last year and nobody semed to care then ), there will also be other points changes to reflect recent county rarities committee decisions but as for adding other species, how are we supposed to decide which Wigan Flashes Bittern is a new bird or the same as one already there? Black-necked Grebe always looks like a good points candidate until you consider the toing and froing usual Pennington Flash birds and the headache they present to keep track of whats new and what's returning. Same with adult Yellow-legged Gulls, if they were worth points I could be on around 6 or 700 now such is the almost impossibility to prove that birds in nightly roosts aren't the same as ones found on previous nights.

I've said before that I'll always listen to suggestions (but they'll have to be more than an ambiguous comment on this forum) but those who think that I didn't spend some serious time thinking the points system through in the first place should reconsider, it's kept simple for it's entrants and for me to keep a track on it all, which is more of an effort than you might think.

It's been a tremendous effort this year by all concerned and I'm eternally greatful, there is no doubt our impressive county year is due in some respect to your efforts and I'm hopeing next year will be even better with more entrants to make the competition even more competative and find even more decent birds and it will be a shame if people don't enter because they've lost sight of what it's all about in the first place It's all but a game...

Just seen this, hope you have picked yaself up now Warfy?

No one should be feelin demorolised or have their points plans in tatters... it should be giving you more of an incentive to get back out there and find something else! This has been a fantastic year county wise and you CANNOT rule yourself out just yet!

Mr Woosey is right....its not rocket science how it works!!

I dont agree that permits/licences are an advantage...... I dont have a driving licence and I dont feel like im at a dis-advantage. Its about being in the right place at the right time and having a bit of luck on your side!

you may have not have had much luck this year but who knows what next year is gonna hold. 147 points in your first year aint bad Warfy - its lots more than I managed!!

The tournament I think has been a great success, It has done what it was set out to achieve....gettin us lot out there more... birding more.

thanks for the encouragement paul,i,ve glued it back together and will be back out there sunday (all day cos the grandkids are overnighting).mike if you,d been lucky enough to eyeball the 'reported' glaucous 8 points and i can,t work out how many for the goshawk because you,d have to prove it wasn,t a release but as you say nul points
for an lsp which would be as frustrating/ rewarding as the wigan bittern exclusion, but
rules is rules,and god if your reading this, a firecrest in my garden please.

eyes to the skies geoff

Mr Hargreaves,pull yourself together, gather up those tattered plans, and give yourself points and a pat on the back for having a plan.

Its not over till the fat lady sings or warfy cries and I hear no singing

The flocks of ibis, shearwater, petrels and Barnacles must be on the way, dont give up yet, the daylight hours maybe getting shorter but we do have 92 days left yet....

Mr Mc kerchar is only just ahead: he,s not going to stop so gather up your tatters and


KEEP BIRDING

its, nearly october and my plans for points are strewn in tatters across the garage floor,I,ve dropped very lucky to get on the scoreboard (and i,m still owed a black tern)but the fun/luck element of the tourament shouldn,t be overlooked,i,ve been up a silly o,clock most sundays to check dover and abram for godwits etc,who knows how many spoonbills I missed while on the quest,maybe strinesdale would have been a better choice.

nice flock of glossy ibis long overdue,geoff

-- Edited by Geoff Hargreaves at 22:40, 2008-09-30

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Yes Simon. You've had a great year so far at Elton. It's not an easy place to watch - all that bloody mud everywhere, and the dogs! You worked hard and have a record that will be hard to beat. There are some great birds in that record - and many of us lesser birders are very grateful to you for working the site like you have this year.

When you're feeling down, just remember how you felt when you looked up to the sky the other week and shouted "Osprey!". Now - get started on writing "The highs and lows of an Elton year".

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thanks Paul

Paul Heaton wrote:

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hmm Tescos Extra on winter hill they never have enough fresh bread when I call

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I wish! Asda's at the Reebok is my choice (I pass 2 other Asda's to get there) then it's only literally a 4 minute trip up Claypool Road/New Chapel Lane to come out right opposite Georges Lane not before a quick pint on the very pleasant pub on the corner though

The Tournament isn`t Rocket Science, nor has anyone an advantage over anybody else...........you just turn up at your local patch and do your normal birding - if you drop on something then that`s fine. Apart from 4 points for a Hen Harrier up ont moors, all of my points have come from the Wigan & Abram Flashes - my two local patches. There`s been an awful lot of times when I`ve seen bugger all, but that`s birding for you, and it`s the thought of "what might be there" that keeps you going. So, there`s nowt wrong with the Tournament - take it as seriously or as lightly as you want..........

P.S. You can apply for permits for the Flashes at `The Hawk` or `The Dover Lock` public houses during opening times.....

hmm Tescos Extra on winter hill they never have enough fresh bread when I call

So there you go people Patch work is the best and yes its been proved this year, so well done to you patch-workers.

perhaps we could spice up the rules next year Ian with a few subtle changes more in line with the self found rules of the old 250 club.

personally I may still be in with a chance of 100 this year so that where I am heading.

Keep patch working.

Keep having Fun

Keep birding.


ps theres a blooming big hole in the fence at audi that dog walkers come through every day, but dont tell anyone else

thanks for that paul but there's no unfair advantage or weighting involved. Sure we get more time than most off but i know for sure that most of the time i should be doing something else than birding but instead i'm out every available day covering atleast 3 sites a day, some briefly some not but the effort is frankly huge ( i even incorporate my weekly food shop with a trip to smithills moor)and i make more sacrifices than i should in the name of birding. As for permit only sites, shell pool advertised on this site for new members only a year ago and how many took them up? Heaton park reservoir has been available for permits for years and years, it has always featured in county reports as a great site yet the number of permit holders has always been tiny. Its not unfair, we've all had the opportunities but now some people reap the rewards, fact is that as the elton contingent has proved, concentrating on your own patch reaps enough rewards itself

Paul Cliff wrote:

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chin up slugger, just keep punchin!

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Yes Simon. You've had a great year so far at Elton. It's not an easy place to watch - all that bloody mud everywhere, and the dogs! You worked hard and have a record that will be hard to beat. There are some great birds in that record - and many of us lesser birders are very grateful to you for working the site like you have this year.

When you're feeling down, just remember how you felt when you looked up to the sky the other week and shouted "Osprey!". Now - get started on writing "The highs and lows of an Elton year".

Certainly Ian.

Although I do wish we could get a spell check on this forum,The correct sentence should have read, " the tournament is slightly weighted to one side anyway"

refering to the fact that birders without permits and access to private sites are at a disavantage, and there are a few of us, you and me included that have jobs that allow us to bird more than others that are more office based.

Therefore we have a slight advantage which could be viewed as been weighted to one side.

The main point is that it should be for fun the outcome is immaterial and one should just try to improve on last years points, I set myself a target of 100 and even with permits dripping out of my pockets I am finding it hard to get some points.

So no matter what I get this year I hope to improve next year, once I found that blooming flock of barnacle geese


keep birding

Paul Heaton wrote:

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and the tornament it slighlty weighted to one side anyway

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Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining that comment please paul, i'm not entirely sure i understand exactly that you mean

Well said Mr Cliff..

As for you Mr Simon WARFY Warford, in the immortal words of Monty Python, Always look on the bright side of life, ( see you are already humming it )

Bugger the points and the tornament it slighlty weighted to one side anyway..and its all for fun. You have just set a new Elton record well done that Man, and regarding points you have at least double mine, yes I have done well this year but only because of the GM BIRDERS and the info I could not have done it on my own.

Yes 7 points for a Egret does seem abit lean but blooming heck look at it the other way you are the only birder in GM this year to have seen one, I would give you all my points to have saw that this year.

So come on cheer up how many birders can be gutted to have seen a Brown Shrike.

Its not over yet, that county first Barnacle goose flock has yet to be found argued over decriptions put in and whos know what else might turn up

Keep at it you whipper snapper.

Keep birding

chin up slugger, just keep punchin!

Paul well done on your year list pal, looks like we both have set new records this year. Mainly thanks to the speed in which information has been spread in the county which has reached new heights even at Elton! So a big thanks to Ian for that.

Regarding my tournament, I have reached my lowest point of the year so far in the last few days and yes I am bemoaning my luck Mr Rigby. Im gutted at being out of the county for the WWBT at Elton and not finding the Brents on Sunday has left me very demoralised. Seems pointless claiming a Greenshank when I watched 100 points fly off on Sunday morning. Despite over 150 visits to Elton this year I seemed to have missed a lot more than ive found. Even a little egret in which a description is required only bags me a meagre 7 points.

Meagre 20 points, it would nicely enhance your own total so far Mark wouldn't it

Brent goose IS a county rarity, hence their is no distinction within the races for the sake of the county rarities committee (see the county rarity list on the Manchester Birding website), Yellow Wagtail is not a county rarity but Blue-headed Wagtail is, Iceland Gull is not but Kumlien's Gull is etc etc etc

Find that flock Mark and then come and see me

As the Brent Geese were of the pale-bellied form, should they not be worth more than the Dark-bellied form. I was informed by a reliable source that they were the first record of this race in GM(you had better be right, otherwise I will look a right Parus!)

Yellow Wagtail is not a countable species but the Blue Headed race is?-surely Pale-bellied Brents are worth more than a meagre 20 points.

Just a thought for when I find the mega flock at Castlshaw

P.S Well done Warfy on beating the Elton yearlist!

-- Edited by Mark Rigby at 13:33, 2008-09-29

The Elton Brents were infact only worth 100 points (but still flippin' nice) and Barnacle Goose isn't even on the countable species list (nor is it classed as a county rarity) so that bridge would be crossed when it occurs, although you're more likely to bump into the feral roaming flock that visited Pennington (with Red-breasted Goose in tow) a couple of years ago.

If one or two other birders had been in the Manchester Birding Tournament this year it would already have been over, Barry Hulme at Pennington would probably have been over 600 by now, thanks largely to his flock of 28 Brent Geese there! But you gotta be in it to win it

As for champion birder , perhaps not

What a year As the webmaster breaks through the 400 points barrier is anyone able to stop Mr Ian (Champion birder of 2007) Mc Kerchar. Well maybe as the Elton map-master Simon( warfy) Warford watches 300 points fly out of Elton, the history books are re-written as new records are set at this site. The White winged Black Tern at Heaton park has my( Heaton) year list bulging at the seams. Where is it going to end! As we creep into October there is still a chance to change the History books forever, oh yes I am refering to the BARNACLE GOOSE one flock of these flying over the county could give you mega points. So dont be despair look up and as always KEEP BIRDING PS.just thought I would make my mark for my 400th post