To bring an old thread back to life, just read a post that includes sighting of a "Lappis", what is this? sounds like something a p-erson with a weak bladder might do by accident Cheers Ian
Mark Rigby said
Wed Aug 27 9:14 PM, 2008
Also known as Crested Cormorant, Crested Corvorant, Crested Shag (N England), Green Scout (Ireland) or Shagga (Sussex).
Just for the record-has anybody used it as a chat up line "fancy coming back to mine for a Phalacrocorax Aristotelis"
Paul Heaton said
Wed Aug 27 8:54 PM, 2008
okay,now everyones got a copy of Birds Britannica you will see it informs you of the folklore of the bird and its history, excellent book, but getting back to the name.
SHAG First recorded in 1556 "schagge" next in 1602 shags the term refers to the crest in breeding plumage it is thus a name based on a part of the bird.
In popular use this bird and the cormorant may go under one name Scarf used in the Orkney and Shetland since 1701 which stems from and older Norse word skarfr.
however due to Judith,s injuries it maybe re-name the little sh*t bird.
keep birding.
Jimmy Meadows said
Mon Aug 25 11:24 AM, 2008
This is what i can find on name of shag means skegg in norwegian,which means beard,,the beard is the crest on its head,use to be called green cormorant,,and tufted skart hope that helps Jimmy
Neil Baxter said
Mon Aug 25 10:07 AM, 2008
That Birds Britannica book is a belter - been having a good nosey through... Lapwing being known as "Chewit" in Lancs... my Dad mentioned that previously.
Also - "Sheppies" - now, I've known these were Starlings for may a year - I didn't know they also had the unfortunate nickname of 'Sh*tlegs'.
Some mad stuff in there - all very interesting though!
:)
Neil.
Paul Heaton said
Mon Aug 25 8:31 AM, 2008
I knew we would get down this and there is great scope to go off on a mega tangent with this one, however
I believe a shag was a shag long before the Slang term for sexual intercourse was used, but as with all names many a myth surrounds its origin.
Perhaps the fact that it has a shaggy crest in breeding plumage may be a reason.
According to Birds Britannica The Shetland youth information service has renamed it Scarfie
Whichever way you look at it the morning conversation with Warfy Riggers Skiddo, Dave and Mel did take a slightly smutty tone, and well done on getting your Scarfie warfy, ( sorry could not help it. )
Keep birding
Ian Campbell said
Sun Aug 24 11:22 PM, 2008
Talking about this this morning with Peter Johnson whilst looking for a Shag at Elton; why is the shag called a shag?????? Cheers Ian
Neil Baxter said
Sun Aug 17 8:50 PM, 2008
Gary Marland wrote:
Mark Rigby wrote:
(brace is 2 game birds except Pheasant!).
So what are four game birds called then. A pair of braces.
I'll get my coat.
Gary
I like that one... and of course GOT to be more PC than the predictable 'tits' gags that people throw at you when they know you're into Birding eh?
Neil.
Gary Marland said
Mon Aug 11 2:16 PM, 2008
Mark Rigby wrote:
(brace is 2 game birds except Pheasant!).
So what are four game birds called then. A pair of braces.
I'll get my coat.
Gary
Matt Potter said
Mon Aug 11 1:55 PM, 2008
Mark Rigby wrote:
I have plenty of books that I had forgotten about. To avoid incuring the wrath of Mrs Riggers, when I buy a new book, I stash it out of the way behind other books. Then, when tidying up I come across said book and say "Oh, I forgot I that one-I think I will have a read".
Its only the same as all those dresses and shoes that fall out of Mrs.Riggers wardrobe which she says she has had for years!
What is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander as they say!
Where's that book? lets look up Gander!
I clearly remeber a number of books being sneeked into your house after a birding trip, especially trips to Norfolk when we would decend on Titchwell and spend a bit of time in the shop!
Mark Rigby said
Mon Aug 11 10:24 AM, 2008
I have plenty of books that I had forgotten about. To avoid incuring the wrath of Mrs Riggers, when I buy a new book, I stash it out of the way behind other books. Then, when tidying up I come across said book and say "Oh, I forgot I that one-I think I will have a read".
Its only the same as all those dresses and shoes that fall out of Mrs.Riggers wardrobe which she says she has had for years!
What is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander as they say!
Where's that book? lets look up Gander!
Paul Heaton said
Mon Aug 11 7:42 AM, 2008
I willl take that remark as a complement Mr Riggers, nice fine hope you had a good read but how can you have books and not know you have them.
Jackson Book worth about £10 in good nick with dust jacket. Lodge about £5.
now find that large format book for Tim in your pile.
keep reading check out oil names for kestrel will make you smile.
Keep birding.
Mark Rigby said
Sun Aug 10 11:56 PM, 2008
Oh no!Just found another,"Bird's:Alternative names" by Walter Lodge. No bed for me tonight then!
Mark Rigby said
Sun Aug 10 11:38 PM, 2008
Spent this afternoon indoors fixing a new bookcase to the wall of my study.(actually the box room-but study sounds good).After attaching said bookcase to the wall, I was filling it with books when I came across an old book I bought some years ago called "British Names of Birds" by Christine E Jackson.
I have spent the last 5 hrs flicking through it picking up gems such as a Robin is a falconers name for a male Hobby, a stagg is a one year old swan and that there is no such thing a "a brace of Pheasant"(brace is 2 game birds except Pheasant!).
There is a sedge of Bittern's, a fling of Dunlin, a plump of wildfowl, a knob of Pochard, a bouquet of Pheasants(not brace-dont forget) and a tok of Capercaillie's
Hence, the time is 1135hrs and I am still tidying up!!!!!
I am beginning to sound like Mr. Heaton
-- Edited by Mark Rigby at 23:58, 2008-08-10
Mark Rigby said
Fri Aug 8 10:54 PM, 2008
Just bought a copy of "Birds Britannica" from Amazon for £17. Money well spent!(should be £35)
Just one problem-you can't put it down. There's a bit in the back listing over 500 of the 3000 pub names that a bloke has come across in 20 years!
There is a challenge Mr Woosey-"a pint in a pub with a bird name" list
-- Edited by Mark Rigby at 22:56, 2008-08-08
Neil Baxter said
Wed Jul 9 6:48 PM, 2008
Howdy folks - are we discussing 'local nicknames' for birds here also?
Just recalling - "Sheppies" - escapes me now - is that a local term for Starlings?
And I'm sure my dad's referred to 'Chewits' before now - not the filling-pulling sweets, but Lapwing I think.
:)
Neil.
Mike Chorley said
Tue Jul 1 10:02 PM, 2008
ps If a Balrog was about I bet Warfy would shorten it
-- Edited by Ian Campbell at 18:48, 2008-07-01
That would make it a Bog!
Ian Campbell said
Tue Jul 1 6:47 PM, 2008
Mike, just spent 5 mins laughing at your post( I'm a City fan, don't get much to smile about ). Cheers Ian ps If a Balrog was about I bet Warfy would shorten it and Ian(GOD)Mck would see at least 10 on Astley Moss before anyone else Cheers again Ian
-- Edited by Ian Campbell at 18:48, 2008-07-01
Mike Chorley said
Tue Jul 1 5:59 PM, 2008
Almost my first 'proper' birdbook was a 1961 reprint of the 1941 'New Edition' of T.A. Cowards' "Birds of the Wayside and Woodland" a sort of Observers' Book of Birds for adults. That lists 'Sprosser or EASTERN Nightingale' so this must be a more commonly used name that has fallen out of use.
As for the rest: Oyk (noun of unknown origin: an uncouth or obnoxious person-Complete OED online) is 'acceptable'
Iky ( "sounds like an illness"- if you have maintained the vocabulary of a 5 year old!) is 'unacceptable'
Barwit (Rumpole of the Bailley?) is 'acceptable'
Blackwit (Richard Pryor?) is 'borderline' -rather like some of Melanie's diary entries!
Can't see much difference between the last two. If you use either are the young 'Halfwits'?
Except in official useage can there be any hard and fast rule for something that is obviously a matter of personal taste, usage and opinion?
P.S. How many tournament points for a Balrog?
-- Edited by Mike Chorley at 18:00, 2008-07-01
Alan Warford said
Tue Jul 1 10:50 AM, 2008
Just seen this extract from http://leicesterllama.blogspot.com/ about Sprosser.
Calling a Thrush Nightingale a 'Sprosser' is one that I just don't get.
Everyone knows that it's simply the German name for the species, but when and more importantly why did it enter some British birders' vocabularies? We don't go around saying we've had good views of a Nachtigall, or twitched an Erddrossel or a Gartenbaumläufer for f***'s sake, so why pick on this one? Yes, it's a bit quicker than saying 'Thrush Nightingale', but then 'Streifenschwirl' is shorter than 'Pallas's Grasshopper Warbler' and we don't use that, do we? Although perhaps that's because it looks a bit difficult to pronounce, whereas even the dullest, most linguistically challenged twitcher can cope with Sprosser.
Explains everything ???
Mark Rigby said
Mon Jun 30 10:18 PM, 2008
Ian,
Birds do infact have proper names-what the hell is a Meadow Pipet,Rock Pipet,Water Pipet,Buff-Bellied Pipet,Blyth's Pipet,Richards Pipet,Pechora Pipet,Tree Pipet,Vinaceous-Breasted PipetNilgiri PipetMenzbier's Pipet etc
PIPIT(pip-it) a small bird, resembling a lark (from Collins Dictionary)
Pipet isn't even in the dictionary so I can quote anything funny
Cheers
Riggers
Ian Campbell said
Mon Jun 30 9:58 PM, 2008
OYKS OK Warfy Just read the post about Rumworth Lodge? It sounds like LORD of the RINGS is going on down there! What with Oyks (what do they look like?). There will be Balrogs seen next. BIRDS HAVE PROPER NAMES Cheers Ian ps We now need suggestions for GM birders about who plays GOLLUM etc Only JokingCheers Ian
Paul Heaton said
Fri Jun 27 6:58 PM, 2008
Ok Sean you can be the Narrator, mega pricey that jobling book one in france at the moment for sale at £150.
Also maybe try Birds-their latin names explained A T Gotch and key names to British birds R D McLeod.
keep birding.
Sean Sweeney said
Thu Jun 26 1:58 PM, 2008
Hi All, Fantastic thread this one, just read it today on my lunch. Having got the 'birds names and folklore' book referred to earlier down the thread several years back I went a stage further about 18 months ago and went on a search for a little known but highly prized specialist book: A Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names by James A. Jobling (Oxford Uni Press, 1991). I could not find a copy of this through any book stores online, bird book specailists (including ones at bird fairs) and only occassionally have I found it on Amazon, but it is always for between £150 and £200, so always a non-starter there and once bid up to £60 on ebay for it, but was beaten at the last second Anyway, I finally traced down a copy in the John Rylands University Library, Oxford Road, as I have lifetime membership to this library and all its books and journals (absolutely brilliant resource for all manner of new and old publications). Only issue is that the book is referrence only so can't take it home, but photocopied some pages for bedtime reading!? Well, to get to my point, this book is the real brains behind the scientific names of all species and makes sense of so many strange titles that you always wondered what they meant, if you like Latin that is. The synopsis of the book is as follows: This dictionary gives the derivation and meaning of all valid scientific bird names. Each part of the name is defined separately so that Passer domesticus, for example, will not be found as such, but both Passer and domesticus are explained in their respective alphabetical places. The usefulness of the dictionary will thus not be affected by future taxonomic revisions of generic or species names. About 8500 names are defined, including a selection of historical synonyms. Many unusual details emerge from the author's meticulous work in tracking down obscure meanings. A short but informative introduction explains the history and purposes of scientific nomenclature and the basic features of Latin in this context. It also discusses the ways in which birds have been named for their appearance, for a person or place, or some aspect of their habitat, behaviour, food, or voice, or with reference to their native-language name. This book should prove a valuable reference source for everyone whose work or interests bring them into contact with birds. Well, when it's raining like this you need something to read heh!?
Paul Heaton said
Sun Jun 22 9:38 AM, 2008
The mighty have spoken and I must admit I am not one for straying into other forums or websites but Rob Frays blog is superb an excellent summing up and I bow down to the perfect answer to Bird names.
Book wise.
Birds Brittannica Mark Cocker Oxford book of bird names W B Lockwood All the birds of the Air Francesca Greenoak.
once again an excellent laugh over the past fews days with this thread,
Keep Birding.
Dean Macdonald said
Sat Jun 21 10:47 PM, 2008
When this thread started i had no idea what a "PG Tips" was. A bit of research found the answer. Then, my son bought me "Gripping Yarns" by Bill Oddie for fathers day. One of the stories is about the legendary "white tips". which aren't that obvious, aparently.
This months Birdwatching magazine also has a reference to "PG Tips".
Coincidence or what
Dean
Ian McKerchar said
Sat Jun 21 1:51 PM, 2008
Mark Rigby wrote:
However, exclaiming "Icky at 1 o'clock", will result in a more rapid resonse by the observers and may result in more people "getting on " it
However, I'd be far too busy cringing or rolling about laughing if I heard those words. My sentiments on the abbrevation of birds names are admirably echoed in Rob Fray's birding blog, http://www.robfray.co.uk/ and a bloody good summing up it is
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar at 13:56, 2008-06-21
Mark Rigby said
Sat Jun 21 1:24 PM, 2008
Ian Woosey wrote:
GIVE BIRDS THEIR PROPER NAMES !
Icky ? Melody ?? Sprosser ????????........what`s all that about ?
Ian,
There is a time and a place. Birds should be called by their proper names-with capital letters.
But when out in the field and you are lucky enough to find an Icterine Warbler for example, by the time you have got everybody's attention, by way of "Excuse me everybody but I have managed to find and correctly identify an Icterine Warbler in yonder bush"- it will have buggered off, never to be seen again!!!
However, exclaiming "Icky at 1 o'clock", will result in a more rapid resonse by the observers and may result in more people "getting on " it
Then again, if you say "Excuse me everybody but I have managed to find and correctly identify an Icterine Warbler in yonder bush"- it may give the Willow Warbler that you have mis identified ,enough time to disapear into dense undergrowth and cover up your mistake
Mark Rigby said
Sat Jun 21 1:09 PM, 2008
Paul Heaton wrote:
Riggers is a shepherd and the rest are angels
Paul-would it be wise leaving me on my own with all them sheep I am from "up in them there hills you know", or are the angels there for protection
Ian Woosey said
Sat Jun 21 12:13 PM, 2008
And Now For Something Completely Different..........ie - the origins of this thread !
GIVE BIRDS THEIR PROPER NAMES !
Icky ? Melody ?? Sprosser ????????........what`s all that about ?
It should be made socially unacceptable
Gary Marland said
Fri Jun 20 11:48 PM, 2008
Paul Heaton wrote:
..... What about Mr Mc kerchar.....
I'm relatively new to the forum but I thought he played God
Mike Chorley said
Fri Jun 20 9:46 PM, 2008
After 12 years of birding with him, I have to agree with you, Paul, that Riggers is definately no angel !
Paul Cliff said
Fri Jun 20 9:18 PM, 2008
Paul Heaton wrote:
Right we have to stop this now, my sides will not take it any more, they have split twice already.
The very thought of Warfy wrapped in swaddling clothes and been the saviour of mankind, has me very worried!!!!!
We have the 3 wise men, Judith Smith as mary is ......perfect. so who going to be joseph i think the honors to go Pete Berry...
Riggers is a shepherd and the rest are angels, sorry Mr Wilson but Rob and Sonia get to be Brian and Brain.
so there we go all sorted great fun have not laughed so much in ages, well done to all.
Keep Birding.
What about Mr Mc kerchar, he is to busy, what birding I hear you ask.....no, he is Widow Twankey in the Gm Birders pantomime
rob smallwood as the inn keeper!
Paul Heaton said
Fri Jun 20 6:34 PM, 2008
Right we have to stop this now, my sides will not take it any more, they have split twice already.
The very thought of Warfy wrapped in swaddling clothes and been the saviour of mankind, has me very worried!!!!!
We have the 3 wise men, Judith Smith as mary is ......perfect. so who going to be joseph i think the honors to go Pete Berry...
Riggers is a shepherd and the rest are angels, sorry Mr Wilson but Rob and Sonia get to be Brian and Brain.
so there we go all sorted great fun have not laughed so much in ages, well done to all.
Keep Birding.
What about Mr Mc kerchar, he is to busy, what birding I hear you ask.....no, he is Widow Twankey in the Gm Birders pantomime
Paul Wilson said
Fri Jun 20 5:06 PM, 2008
Can I be Brian? And can my partner be Brian too?
Paul Cliff said
Fri Jun 20 10:03 AM, 2008
Paul Heaton wrote:
Its a pleasure gentlemen.
Now who would you cast in the other roles
keep birding
warfy could be the baby jesus.
Ian Campbell said
Fri Jun 20 9:46 AM, 2008
I know this is getting silly(it's that Heaton's fault), but would Judith make a good virgin MARY Cheers a wise man
Steve Suttill said
Fri Jun 20 9:34 AM, 2008
I suppose I should say that I too am honoured - but who gets the myrrh (whatever that is - please don't answer and start another wierd thread!)?
Steve
Paul Heaton said
Fri Jun 20 8:12 AM, 2008
Its a pleasure gentlemen.
Now who would you cast in the other roles
keep birding
Ian Campbell said
Thu Jun 19 6:45 PM, 2008
I am truely honoured also Thank you Paul Cheers Ian ...................... Even though I can't spell truly
-- Edited by Ian Campbell at 18:47, 2008-06-19
Craig Higson said
Thu Jun 19 11:59 AM, 2008
Paul Heaton wrote:
In fact if we had a GM nativity play I am sure Steve Suttill, craig higson and Ian Campbell would be perfect for the three wise men.
keep it up gentlemen Its nice to be educated.
Keep birding.
I am truly honoured.
Mark Rigby said
Thu Jun 19 11:53 AM, 2008
Steve Suttill wrote: I think I should have lived in the days when they thought Barnacle Geese did hatch from barnacles and Swallows hibernated under water in reedbeds!
Where do they come from thenYou learn something new every day
Steve Suttill said
Thu Jun 19 9:53 AM, 2008
I stand corrected Ian C! However I would contend that it's only a result of scientists not knowing their Latin - "Family" & "Genus" when they both mean the same, I ask you!!!
My Latin may well be better than average but I'm rubbish at science!
All this this stuff is being turned on its head by DNA analysis anyway, though I find it very hard to understand the latest articles on taxonomy in British Birds and the like. It's no fun when ornithology moves from the field and into the lab - I think I should have lived in the days when they thought Barnacle Geese did hatch from barnacles and Swallows hibernated under water in reedbeds!
Steve
Paul Heaton said
Thu Jun 19 8:12 AM, 2008
Oh how I love it when a tangent happens on a thread, where are we going this this one, Latin Greek Grammer etc.
I am sure if Mr Mckerchar had a dentention section on here I would be in it doing lines,
I must learn my latin I must learn my latin,
Sadly been born in Gorton and raised in Wythenshawe Anglo-saxon was our second language, God forbid you ever admitted to been a birdwatcher, you would be hung drawn and laughed at, how i remember school days with fun.
In fact if we had a GM nativity play I am sure Steve Suttill, craig higson and Ian Campbell would be perfect for the three wise men.
keep it up gentlemen Its nice to be educated.
Keep birding.
Gary Marland said
Wed Jun 18 11:08 PM, 2008
You may be interested to know that the football board game Subbuteo was named after the scientific name for the Hobby (Falco subbuteo) when the inventor failed to get permission to register the game's name as a trademark.
Mike Chorley said
Wed Jun 18 10:48 PM, 2008
Craig Higson wrote:
All I know is it makes my head hurt
If you think that's bad, you wouldn't have liked one of the sets of questions from the King William School Christmas Quiz a few years ago. There were ten phrases in English such as ' grass widow from Ithaca' which you had to convert into Latin, Greek or a Classical illusion, which gave you all or part of the scientific name of a British bird. The question was headed simply 'retranslate' and the answers were the birds' English names. This was for secondary school pupils, but, when I took the copy with me on our Norfolk trip it had several groups of adult birders scratchung their heads. I liked yellow-footed chicken best
Craig Higson said
Wed Jun 18 6:08 PM, 2008
All I know is it makes my head hurt
reason for editing is I can tspell fo rtoffee
-- Edited by Craig Higson at 18:09, 2008-06-18
Ian Campbell said
Wed Jun 18 6:07 PM, 2008
Well done Craig, you just beat me to an almost identical post, sorry Stephanos but Family comes before Genus . Cheers Ian ps who cares anyway?, perhaps Trogledytester, the Wren does
Craig Higson said
Wed Jun 18 5:56 PM, 2008
The Hierarchical order with biological names etc is: Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species or 'King Philip Came Over For Great Sex' as my lecturer taught us.
So a Wren would be in the Animal Kingdom, Phylum Chordata (if memory serves correctly) Class Aves - and then you get down to specifics -Order Passerineformes, Family I think is Troglodytidae, Genus Troglodyte Species Troglodytes.
Cheers Ian
Just for the record-has anybody used it as a chat up line "fancy coming back to mine for a Phalacrocorax Aristotelis"
SHAG
First recorded in 1556 "schagge" next in 1602 shags the term refers to the crest in breeding plumage it is thus a name based on a part of the bird.
In popular use this bird and the cormorant may go under one name Scarf used in the Orkney and Shetland since 1701 which stems from and older Norse word skarfr.
however due to Judith,s injuries it maybe re-name the little sh*t bird.
keep birding.
Jimmy
Also - "Sheppies" - now, I've known these were Starlings for may a year - I didn't know they also had the unfortunate nickname of 'Sh*tlegs'.
Some mad stuff in there - all very interesting though!
:)
Neil.
I believe a shag was a shag long before the Slang term for sexual intercourse was used, but as with all names many a myth surrounds its origin.
Perhaps the fact that it has a shaggy crest in breeding plumage may be a reason.
According to Birds Britannica The Shetland youth information service has renamed it Scarfie
Whichever way you look at it the morning conversation with Warfy Riggers Skiddo,
Dave and Mel did take a slightly smutty tone, and well done on getting your Scarfie warfy, ( sorry could not help it. )
Keep birding
why is the shag called a shag??????
Cheers Ian
Neil.
So what are four game birds called then. A pair of braces.
I'll get my coat.
Gary
I clearly remeber a number of books being sneeked into your house after a birding trip, especially trips to Norfolk when we would decend on Titchwell and spend a bit of time in the shop!
Its only the same as all those dresses and shoes that fall out of Mrs.Riggers wardrobe which she says she has had for years!
What is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander as they say!
Where's that book? lets look up Gander!
Jackson Book worth about £10 in good nick with dust jacket.
Lodge about £5.
now find that large format book for Tim in your pile.
keep reading check out oil names for kestrel will make you smile.
Keep birding.
I have spent the last 5 hrs flicking through it picking up gems such as a Robin is a falconers name for a male Hobby, a stagg is a one year old swan and that there is no such thing a "a brace of Pheasant"(brace is 2 game birds except Pheasant!).
There is a sedge of Bittern's, a fling of Dunlin, a plump of wildfowl, a knob of Pochard, a bouquet of Pheasants(not brace-dont forget) and a tok of Capercaillie's
Hence, the time is 1135hrs and I am still tidying up!!!!!
I am beginning to sound like Mr. Heaton
-- Edited by Mark Rigby at 23:58, 2008-08-10
Just one problem-you can't put it down. There's a bit in the back listing over 500 of the 3000 pub names that a bloke has come across in 20 years!
There is a challenge Mr Woosey-"a pint in a pub with a bird name" list
-- Edited by Mark Rigby at 22:56, 2008-08-08
Just recalling - "Sheppies" - escapes me now - is that a local term for Starlings?
And I'm sure my dad's referred to 'Chewits' before now - not the filling-pulling sweets, but Lapwing I think.
:)
Neil.
ps If a Balrog was about I bet Warfy would shorten it
-- Edited by Ian Campbell at 18:48, 2008-07-01
That would make it a Bog!
Cheers Ian
ps If a Balrog was about I bet Warfy would shorten it and Ian(GOD)Mck would see at least 10 on Astley Moss before anyone else
Cheers again Ian
-- Edited by Ian Campbell at 18:48, 2008-07-01
As for the rest:
Oyk (noun of unknown origin: an uncouth or obnoxious person-Complete OED online) is 'acceptable'
Iky ( "sounds like an illness"- if you have maintained the vocabulary of a 5 year old!) is 'unacceptable'
Barwit (Rumpole of the Bailley?) is 'acceptable'
Blackwit (Richard Pryor?) is 'borderline' -rather like some of Melanie's diary entries!
Can't see much difference between the last two. If you use either are the young 'Halfwits'?
Except in official useage can there be any hard and fast rule for something that is obviously a matter of personal taste, usage and opinion?
P.S. How many tournament points for a Balrog?
-- Edited by Mike Chorley at 18:00, 2008-07-01
Calling a Thrush Nightingale a 'Sprosser' is one that I just don't get.
Everyone knows that it's simply the German name for the species, but when and more importantly why did it enter some British birders' vocabularies? We don't go around saying we've had good views of a Nachtigall, or twitched an Erddrossel or a Gartenbaumläufer for f***'s sake, so why pick on this one? Yes, it's a bit quicker than saying 'Thrush Nightingale', but then 'Streifenschwirl' is shorter than 'Pallas's Grasshopper Warbler' and we don't use that, do we? Although perhaps that's because it looks a bit difficult to pronounce, whereas even the dullest, most linguistically challenged twitcher can cope with Sprosser.
Explains everything ???
Birds do infact have proper names-what the hell is a Meadow Pipet,Rock Pipet,Water Pipet,Buff-Bellied Pipet,Blyth's Pipet,Richards Pipet,Pechora Pipet,Tree Pipet,Vinaceous-Breasted Pipet
PIPIT(pip-it) a small bird, resembling a lark (from Collins Dictionary)
Pipet isn't even in the dictionary so I can quote anything funny
Cheers
Riggers
OK Warfy
Just read the post about Rumworth Lodge?
It sounds like LORD of the RINGS is going on down there!
What with Oyks (what do they look like?). There will be Balrogs seen next. BIRDS HAVE PROPER NAMES
Cheers Ian
ps
We now need suggestions for GM birders about who plays GOLLUM etc
Only Joking
Also maybe try Birds-their latin names explained A T Gotch
and key names to British birds R D McLeod.
keep birding.
Fantastic thread this one, just read it today on my lunch. Having got the 'birds names and folklore' book referred to earlier down the thread several years back I went a stage further about 18 months ago and went on a search for a little known but highly prized specialist book: A Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names by James A. Jobling (Oxford Uni Press, 1991). I could not find a copy of this through any book stores online, bird book specailists (including ones at bird fairs) and only occassionally have I found it on Amazon, but it is always for between £150 and £200, so always a non-starter there and once bid up to £60 on ebay for it, but was beaten at the last second
Anyway, I finally traced down a copy in the John Rylands University Library, Oxford Road, as I have lifetime membership to this library and all its books and journals (absolutely brilliant resource for all manner of new and old publications). Only issue is that the book is referrence only so can't take it home, but photocopied some pages for bedtime reading!? Well, to get to my point, this book is the real brains behind the scientific names of all species and makes sense of so many strange titles that you always wondered what they meant, if you like Latin that is. The synopsis of the book is as follows: This dictionary gives the derivation and meaning of all valid scientific bird names. Each part of the name is defined separately so that Passer domesticus, for example, will not be found as such, but both Passer and domesticus are explained in their respective alphabetical places. The usefulness of the dictionary will thus not be affected by future taxonomic revisions of generic or species names. About 8500 names are defined, including a selection of historical synonyms. Many unusual details emerge from the author's meticulous work in tracking down obscure meanings. A short but informative introduction explains the history and purposes of scientific nomenclature and the basic features of Latin in this context. It also discusses the ways in which birds have been named for their appearance, for a person or place, or some aspect of their habitat, behaviour, food, or voice, or with reference to their native-language name. This book should prove a valuable reference source for everyone whose work or interests bring them into contact with birds.
Book wise.
Birds Brittannica Mark Cocker
Oxford book of bird names W B Lockwood
All the birds of the Air Francesca Greenoak.
once again an excellent laugh over the past fews days with this thread,
Keep Birding.
When this thread started i had no idea what a "PG Tips" was. A bit of research found the answer.
Then, my son bought me "Gripping Yarns" by Bill Oddie for fathers day. One of the stories is about the legendary "white tips". which aren't that obvious, aparently.
This months Birdwatching magazine also has a reference to "PG Tips".
Coincidence or what
Dean
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar at 13:56, 2008-06-21
Ian,
There is a time and a place. Birds should be called by their proper names-with capital letters.
But when out in the field and you are lucky enough to find an Icterine Warbler for example, by the time you have got everybody's attention, by way of "Excuse me everybody but I have managed to find and correctly identify an Icterine Warbler in yonder bush"
However, exclaiming "Icky at 1 o'clock", will result in a more rapid resonse by the observers and may result in more people "getting on " it
Then again, if you say "Excuse me everybody but I have managed to find and correctly identify an Icterine Warbler in yonder bush"- it may give the Willow Warbler that you have mis identified ,enough time to disapear into dense undergrowth and cover up your mistake
Paul-would it be wise leaving me on my own with all them sheep
GIVE BIRDS THEIR PROPER NAMES !
Icky ? Melody ?? Sprosser ????????........what`s all that about ?
It should be made socially unacceptable
I'm relatively new to the forum but I thought he played God
rob smallwood as the inn keeper!
The very thought of Warfy wrapped in swaddling clothes and been the saviour of mankind, has me very worried!!!!!
We have the 3 wise men, Judith Smith as mary is ......perfect.
so who going to be joseph i think the honors to go Pete Berry...
Riggers is a shepherd and the rest are angels, sorry Mr Wilson but Rob and Sonia
get to be Brian and Brain.
so there we go all sorted great fun have not laughed so much in ages, well done to all.
Keep Birding.
What about Mr Mc kerchar, he is to busy, what birding I hear you ask.....no, he is
Widow Twankey in the Gm Birders pantomime
warfy could be the baby jesus.
Cheers a wise man
Steve
Now who would you cast in the other roles
keep birding
Thank you Paul
Cheers Ian
......................
Even though I can't spell truly
-- Edited by Ian Campbell at 18:47, 2008-06-19
I am truly honoured.
My Latin may well be better than average but I'm rubbish at science!
All this this stuff is being turned on its head by DNA analysis anyway, though I find it very hard to understand the latest articles on taxonomy in British Birds and the like. It's no fun when ornithology moves from the field and into the lab - I think I should have lived in the days when they thought Barnacle Geese did hatch from barnacles and Swallows hibernated under water in reedbeds!
Steve
I am sure if Mr Mckerchar had a dentention section on here I would be in it doing lines,
I must learn my latin I must learn my latin,
Sadly been born in Gorton and raised in Wythenshawe Anglo-saxon was our second language, God forbid you ever admitted to been a birdwatcher, you would be hung drawn and laughed at, how i remember school days with fun.
In fact if we had a GM nativity play I am sure Steve Suttill, craig higson and Ian Campbell
would be perfect for the three wise men.
keep it up gentlemen Its nice to be educated.
Keep birding.
reason for editing is I can tspell fo rtoffee
-- Edited by Craig Higson at 18:09, 2008-06-18
Cheers Ian
ps who cares anyway?, perhaps Trogledytester
So a Wren would be in the Animal Kingdom, Phylum Chordata (if memory serves correctly) Class Aves - and then you get down to specifics -Order Passerineformes, Family I think is Troglodytidae, Genus Troglodyte Species Troglodytes.
Hows that for remebering your lectures.
Sad or what
-- Edited by Craig Higson at 17:56, 2008-06-18