It seems I might have mis-read your post concerning the Wigan Bitterns John and it is only me who doesn't read my own rules after all Damn and blast

John Rayner wrote:

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Having signed up can I make a comment on the scoring system.

I would be ecstatic to find a Bittern anywhere and think even Wigan Bitterns should count for something.


Cheers, John

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So it's not just me who doesn't read my onw rules then After re-jigging the points recently I realised Bittern was always on there and always worth points away from the Wigan Flashes I have no excuse other than I wrote them two years ago and have a head full of magic!

Thanks to everyone who's entered so far, this year looks like it might be the closest yet and is set for some great finds. If you're name's not down however...

put me down for tournament please. Hope not to be right at bottom again but like many others work and other vital commitments mean not being able to spend time in the field. Im hoping pinch Elton points from the regular band of reprobates !

Best put my name down Ian for 2009, i have a hunch that Paul Cliffs Red-footed Blue Rimmed Albatross will turn up at AMR this year!!!

Dave

Don't hold your breath boys

The status of some birds fluctuates year on year, this year was very poor for Wood Sands but others previously haven't and I'm not intending on fettling with the points too much. It will basically reflect changes in county rarity status and perhaps one or two others but nothing more really, it's always easy to think certain species should be countable but it's an absolute nightmare to keep track of individuals of some species. Bitterns should be countable but there is no way to track individuals at Wigan and considering there could, theoretically atleast, be half a dozen of them there, roaming about, there is no fair way to distribute points. Waxwings are an absolute no no, they're beautiful enough and rare enough to be worth points but tracking roaming flocks and the huge variation in the same flock counts make them nigh on impossible. In actual fact, at the start of the Tournament Garden Warblers were a west county scarcity and usually found in the east which gave birders resident over there chance to cash in but their expansion west has enabled us to find more and by the same token Grasshopper Warblers are much commoner in the west than the east, also their late summer/autumn singing makes assigning them to the same or different individuals probmatical.

Points have been assigned to species which create the least problems both for you as birders claiming them and for me to track them, this avoids arguments and strops and has worked well up to now.

All you've got to do now is get out there and find them, they're out there

No need to worry about finishing last because i am in again this year and it looks as if i will be propping every one up again

Cheers Jimmy

Simon Johnson wrote:

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as for taking it easy what happend to trying to beat me warfy?!

Tournemont 2009 - Bring it on!

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I thought you told me you were taking it easy next year Simon, yeah right!

Get your excuses ready now thats all i will say haha

John, I think Ian is amending some of the points scoring for next year, surely a few more points for these difficult waders such as little stint and wood sand, alot more for Greenshanks too I reckon

Count me in for my first Manchester Tournament. I dont have any wild expectations as I have just looked back over the past year and, although Ive spent many hours in the field (it has to be said a lot of it was in Cheshire), I would have scored a total of 10 in Manchester. I therefore expect to be propping up the table and my only ambition is to enjoy 2009 as much as I have 2008.

Having signed up can I make a comment on the scoring system.

I would be ecstatic to find a Bittern anywhere and think even Wigan Bitterns should count for something.

Can't see why Garden Warbler scores points but Grasshopper Warbler, which is far rarer, doesn't

It's a pity that Waxwings can't count for something. Perhaps 1 points for flocks up to 10, 2 points for flocks up to 20 etc.

Cheers, John

I'd also like to compete this coming year, in the knowledge that my little birded part of the county will get me a few points, can't promise another Honey Buzzard though!
Thanks. Henry.

i'm in next year - we need the people at the bottom to prop up the people at the top!

Count me in for next year too Ian!!

Warfy better pray that Heaton park has some shore line next year or he'll have to be watching out that the Elton "biggie" doesnt get swipped from under his nose!

as for taking it easy what happend to trying to beat me warfy?!

Tournemont 2009 - Bring it on!

Go for it Warfy find the big one at Elton, meanwhile I will attempt to find one on the Carrington moss, so we wont know which way to run

Check out 'GOING FOR THE BIGGY' by Stuart J Gibson excellent book .

keep Birding.

Paul Wilson wrote:

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You can put my name down for next year even though i'm going to be lucky to get any more points than i got this year - unless Warfy stops getting up to Elton before me every morning!

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Paul, Im hoping to have a much more relaxed year next year, so im sure you will find some good birds, I will be concentrating on finding the "biggie" that i failed to find this year.

Have you put your name down yet Mr Campbell??? Its about time you did isnt it? See if you can keep Elton rocking next year..

All the best for 2009.

Warfy

I entered this year for fun only and my only aim was not to finish bottom! I have been bottom most of the year but have been rescued by a Firecrest.

You can put my name down for next year even though i'm going to be lucky to get any more points than i got this year - unless Warfy stops getting up to Elton before me every morning!

Excuse me Mr Suttill what am I meant to be hijacking.

The Tournament is fantastic and my aim was to get 100 points this time, not quite done that, but will have another go next year, so you can count me in Ian.

The trophy was always something for fun but did cost me a farthing or two, it good quality stuff, as for Ian new prize again its my contribution for a well deserved effort that has my mind boggling, 500 points the mans a star and deserves the accolade of Greater Manchester Birder of the Year again.
well done that man and as he says the points are round the next corner and its not over yet so

KEEP BIRDING

Not at all Steve, there's nothing wrong with comparing birding (yes, you did just say that ), just that more prizes etc aren't really necessary, the whole Tournament was really only meant for a bit of fun and in an attempt to increase all our efforts just a little if nothing else, to make the most of out little county, I had no plans for trophies or prizes. Perhaps bragging rights, but nothing else

Anyway, it may all be inconsequential if I don't get more entrants by the end of the year, it's all down to supply and demand

I'll take this opportunity to thank everyone who took part this year, points monsters or not, it doesn't matter, it really is the taking part that counts and as Warfy has rightly pointed out further down this thread, just look at the birds we 'Tournamenteers' have found this year, I think you'll find it's a large proportion of the rares and scarce in the county as a whole. Cheers everyone

OK Ian, you're the boss and it is your tournament! I'm not trying to hijack it like that Heaton chap!!!

I just thought it might be interesting for folks to compare their birding (did I just use that word!) from year to year. I didn't realise that there were people desperately trying to win the competition - I'm sure someone said "it's just a bit of fun"!

Cheers, Steve

-- Edited by Steve Suttill at 18:01, 2008-12-22

Steve Suttill wrote:

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I foolishly said at the start of the year that I was prepared to offer a prize (unspecified!) for the winner of the Tournament on a handicap basis.

Put my name down for next year Ian - I've got to get more than 12points sometime!

Steve

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Thanks for the entry Steve.

As for any handicap basis, this was specifically left off the Tournament for a reason. It just isn't fair! There is only one winner, he or she who accumulates the most points through the year otherwise there could be prizes for the most species found, the most countable birds found, the most locations points found in etc etc, the list could go on. That someone might not have put much effort in one year and then tried much harder the next (which is the case with more than one or two entrants that have said so much to me in person) doesn't to me seem worthy of a prize, the idea is to get out each year and try as hard as you can to enjoy county birding and if you're lucky enough, find good birds worth points along the way. They're all still out there, anybody checking Pennington Flash's gull roost lately? No, thought not (me included ). Do we still think there's any Crossbills about (I do!) or one or two Snow Buntings up on those cold, bleak hills? Some guys, the Woosey's, Thorpe's and Warford juniors of this county (not to mention many, many more), plug away relentlessly at their patches, quietly working them day in day out and they work very hard for their Tournament rewards but someone who happens to land a single biggy after a blank year previously winning some accolade doesn't seem right? The Tournament is what it is, winner take all and several birders have this year proved their intentions and just what they're capeable of, new name on the trophy next year. Bring it on (oh, that's as long as there's enough entrants to make it worth while of course!)

My maths aren't brilliant either, Paul. I've just got a copy of "Statistics for Ornithologists" and it does my head in!

Andy Isherwood scored 35 last year and is currently on 110 this year. 110 divided by 35 = 3.14 ( i.e. over 3 times as many points).

I've got 12 points (!) in both years, which gives a score of 1 (100%)

Steve Atkins (for example) got 150 points last year and only 89 so far this year (too much atlas data to study on the computer and not enough time up at Watergrove, I suspect!). 89 divided by 150 = 59.333 (59%).

There's still another 9 days to go - all it needs is one of last year's low scorers to get few points and it could all change dramatically - get out there and bag the points!

Merry Xmas everyone, Steve

Steve, I have never been very good with figures, you may have to explain all of the below in detail:

As for Mr McKerchar, whats with the cryptic notes on the website ' there will be a new name on the trophy next year'

Now I know you are not moving nor changing your birding habits, so I do hope your not thinking of not putting your name forward I am sure that if someone won the tournament three years running they would get to keep the trophy.

And as we were so close to catching you this year you have to let someone catch you up, the tournament would not be the same without you buddy, so tell me your are in.



Keep birding.

I foolishly said at the start of the year that I was prepared to offer a prize (unspecified!) for the winner of the Tournament on a handicap basis.

A quick totting up based on the scores so far gives the following table:

1. Andy Isherwood - 314% of last year's score
2. Simon Johnson - 212%
3. Ian McKerchar - 186%

Obviously you had to take part last year to qualify.

Put my name down for next year Ian - I've got to get more than 12points sometime!

Steve

Paul Heaton wrote:

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whats that pager message 13 SNOW GEESE in Lincs in a field, oh my just imagine if they flew into out borders, what a field of points that would be, ( we can only dream)

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I think it's Yorkshire (south at that) which has a history of escaped Snow Geese which has have accumulated into a flock(s) and whilst I'm not exactly branding this particular flock as escapes, it seem a bit...well...coincidental

As for their appearance in Greater Manchester, bring it on and let the squabballing over their validity as wild and countable birds commence

Welcome back Warfy your abscene has been noted.

The Tournament oh yes what a contest had set my goal on 100 points but not there YET

So Mr Mc Kerchar does appear to be well in front, but wait, whats that pager message 13 SNOW GEESE in Lincs in a field, oh my just imagine if they flew into out borders, what a field of points that would be, ( we can only dream)

So the Trophy looks like its staying put for another year, ian it was designed to have names added to it however it will be your choice I think this year, I do have a very good prize as well.

But lets not be hasty as ian says the points are round the next corner as we have 55 days left yet, the points are out there.


KEEP BIRDING.

Its been a while since we discussed the Tournament so just thought id say what a bloody tremendous effort by all involved to find some cracking stuff! What a bunch of birds we have found between us including-

Caspian Gulls(3), Kumliens Gull, Icelands and Glaucs, YL Gulls, Alpine Swift, Temmincks Stint, White Winged Black Tern, Ospreys(6), Spoonbill, Cattle Egret, Yellow Browed Wblr, Red Throated Diver(2), Avocets(3), Honey Buzzard, Red Kite, Marsh Harriers, Garganeys, Sandwich Terns, Little Egret, Brent Geese, Blue Headed Wag, Spotted Redshank, Short Eared Owls, Whoopers galore and all the birds inbetween.

I think its been a pretty good year in the county myself

I wonder what is going to pop up in the next month or so

lol. you think you lot have it bad. i found 21 whooper swans on my 'patch' tother week only to find they wouldn't count as i wasn't already in!

so i joined after the whoopers bolted - *terry wogan* - nil point!

Ive decided to make the tournament more of a challenge5 countable birds-5 points. only another 270 birds to get to last years winning total Who need Avocets, Red Throated Divers, Capian Gulls, Brent Geese............................

and memaybe a few points for a few less rare birds

geoff dont worry i'm in the same predicament

I.m not bitter or twisted but having not found a single countable thingy,despite casually trying hard,my glum mood and strop about green wing teal being refound'my local patch' was lightened
when i read about the 60 twite sneaking passed everyone on the mosses,120 points thrown to the wind ,just show,s what we miss.

cheers geoff

With now 22 entrants for the 2008 Tournament I would like to thank you all for your fantastic support, with all the major sites in the county (and pretty much most of the others inbetween) being covered it should make for an excellent competition, good luck to you all

As for those not yet entered, it is never too late (you are welcome to still join in part way through the year) so don't be left out and join in today

Oh. go on then, stick my name down. I'll end up propping you all up, but maybe my garden will come good again and pick me up a few points.

what,s this only 15 runners so far, come on peeps get your name down or you,ll be kicking yourself when you see that 'countable' and try to backdate your entry.I.ve been very lucky and scored a few points in 2007 and will be trying in 2008, 'i,ll get to dover basin before you' has a certain ring to it.

cheers geoff

whats this? In from a christmas bash full of dirty beer at 1 in the wee hours and still checking the manchester birding website, thats the sort of spirit i love to see but you really ought not to have been capable of seeing the screen let alone typing.

I will enjoy adding your name, keep up the good support pal!

Whats this, just in from a Christmas Booze up.. Mr McKerchar read my email dated 13th Dec bottom paragraph, will resend it to you

I look forward to seeing his name up there! The 'runners and riders' for 2008 is now up, minus a couple of late entries who shall go on soon.

As I am his twin brother I will put his name forward he will not mind, he says he is going to win it anyway

Have been working on it the past two days (I wish it was all as easy as it looks when you're just clicking on the flippin' thing) so it'll be there soon. Anyway, you've not officially put your name down yet

Ian, when are the "Runners and Riders" going to appear so we can way up the competition

its a fair point guys but i'm afraid the short answer is...er, no!

The commoner species are not countable basically because it would be nigh on impossible to track which individuals are which and would lead to huge over counting, also try to understand that i am trying to make it as uncomplicated and uncontroversial as i can (for myself as much as anyone else). It might not look like it i agree but i spent a lot of time considering which species to include and every birder i meet has their own opinion but i'm afraid what you see is what you get. Remember we've all got the same opportunities!

i know this may be a daft idea but some more less rare birds could be added so we all can at least get a few points

eg. buzzard, kestrel, peregrine and possibly owls or as rob said migrants

this was just an idea and may be a bit daft

That sounds like a great idea Rob, no need for loads of points but enough to encourage everyone out more often in search of allsorts, not just mega rarities.

Ian, will there be any points up for grabs for the people who get the first Willow Warb, Sand Martin, Swallow, Wheatear (and other summer visitors) of 2008? Personally, I think there should be...

Exactly Pete, that's the whole point of being in the Tournament, your fortune can change in one go at any time.

There's no limit to age Jake, 13 or 113 but I feel sure you'll be the youngest, so he's hopeing you show a few oldies a thing or two I remember being a 13 year old county birder myself, cycling to Pennington, Tyldesley Sewage Works and....

Plenty time yet. 20th Dec 2006, 21 Bewick's Swan at Chorlton WP would have amassed 168 points, by just turning in for work

just a quick note im only 13 but i love birding is that still ok

But of course it will be a pleasure, good luck

ian could i join the 2008 tournament ? :)