Re the discrepancy in the number of species seen at Pennington Flash (and elsewhere), it must be remembered that a lot of rarities are claimed but descriptions are never submitted, so they can't be added to the list. Or they may have been rejected by BBRC, but still added to the list kept by certain people. Back in the mid 1990s I chased a few of these up which had been reported in LOS reports etc but never submitted, and got some accepted retrospectively - notably I remember (at PF) Great Reed Warbler. There were others in other parts of the county.
I will spare certain observers' blushes by not naming names! The same applies at Audenshaw Resrs, which, when I did the assessment for SSSI status back in 1995, just failed to make the grade of 150, but might have done had some claimed rarities been supported by descriptions.

Steve Atkins wrote:

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Hi Pete,
Based on records in the GM database (1992 - 2006) the top 10 sites in the county for the most species seen are as follows:
1. Pennington - 208 species
2. Audenshaw - 184
3. Elton Resr - 179
4. Rumworth Lodge - 178
5. Shell Carrington - 170
6. Scotmans Flash - 163
7. Hollingworth Lake - 162
8. Hope Carr NR - 159
9. Watergrove Resr - 155
10. Piethorne Valley - 151
I have deducted from the Pennington list escapes and feral species. The figures from the other sites include these. If anyone is interested in a species list for a particular site please e-mail me: steveatkins@tiscali.co.uk
Without giving away too much Ian and I should in the near future be able to produce all time species lists for all the major GM sites. I am pleased to see that my local patch makes it into the top ten without any statistical trickery on my part!

Steve

Correction to earlier post - The Piethorne Valley is in 10th place. Apologies Bill! So there are 3 Rochdale sites in the top 10!!!! Does that make Rochdale the best borough in GM for birdwatching?

-- Edited by Steve Atkins at 15:45, 2007-08-04

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Thanks to Steve Atkins, and some research by myself (pre 1992) I`ve come up with the total number of species (BOU) for the whole of the Wigan Flashes (from 1976) ;

Species Total - 211

The very latest addition was the Cattle Egret on the 4th May 2008.

Ian McKerchar wrote:

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I've said it before and I'll say it again , best birding site is about much more than what rare birds it has recorded or how many it has on it's species list. Consider viewing facilities (not forgetting for wheelchair users), parking and toilet facilities, hides, available information, paths and access and most importantly what birds there are to see at all times of the year (not just rarities). Consider these factors and there is absolutely no doubt Pennington is the clear winner, you can circumnavigate the hides, spend hours in the feeding station (especially in winter) or get away from them all by walking the entire route round the flash, all seasons there have birds and mostly the views are fantastic. Sure it can get very busy with screaming kids and ice-cream munchers sometimes, the car park isn't cheap (well not as cheap as when it used to be free anyway!) and sitting in hides isn't everyone's cup of tea but the variety of habitats and possibilities they behold are the key for me personally

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These are my thoughts aswell Ian. Pennington Flash is great for beginners and people like me, the casual dude type. Also breeding birds interest me. Any way of getting a list of breeding birds for these sites.

Also theres the mosslands as an unbroken whole area, should have a mention.

Purely a personal opinion here but working off Craig's total I think around the late 220's, perhaps early 230's should be about right. I might have a more 'official' total in the not too distant for Pennington as I've more than a better idea of exactly what's been seen there

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar at 20:36, 2007-09-10

ON THE 31ST DEC 1984 THE SPECIES LIST FOR PENNINGTON FLASH(ACCORDING TO DAVE WILSONS BOOK-BIRDS AND BIRDWATCHING AT PENNINGTON FLASH)STOOD AT 206. SINCE THAT DATE OVER 20 YEARS AGO MANY SPECIES HAVE BEEN ADDED AND OTHERS SEPARATED i.E YELLOW LEGGED GULL ETC-SO NOW I THINK IT WOULD BE NEARING 240-250-ONLY IN MY OPPINION MIND

It's in my mind that the Black-eared Wheatear at Elton has been "struck off" by BBRC fairly recently - I msu look it up on my new CD copy of BB!

Ian McKerchar wrote:

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As for the Pennington list Craig, there are species on the list in the foyer that for official county purposes we can't currently include. I appreciate that they may have thier own particular reasons but several were never submitted to the county rarities committee (and it would be unfair to accept them in good faith when other birders would have to submit theirs), although this is something which in time I'd very much like to 'sort out'.

p>

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Cheers Ian I did wonder about that. Hopefully like you say some of it might get sorted out in the future.

As you know Ian the 208 species is based on records in the database which only go back as far as 1992. However last night whilst supping a pint, I went through Judith's article in the 1993 report: The Status of Species in Greater Manchester, and came up with an additional 11 species taking the total to 219. (I was still able to count at that stage!) Even this figure is almost certainly lower than the real total, as the sites for the commoner rarities, such as Wryneck, are not listed in the article. Judith and I are intending to put historical records prior to 1992 into the database at some future point. However due to other work that we are currently engaed in, it will not be possible to do this in the immediate future. In the meantime if anyone is interested in receivng a copy of the provisonal list I'd be happy to supply it. SImon mentioned the Black-eared Wheatear which is listed for Bury rather than Elton Resr. The same article also includes an addiitional 5 species for Audenshaw and 3 for Elton Resr.

I'll be interested to see any of these fabled lists I apparently have in my possesion too they may well come at a later date but for the moment they don't exist (not for me anyway) and with county rarities to deal with, running this very busy website, a full-time job, the start of a new rugby season, family life and of course attemting to get out birding everyday, I don't see it happening in the immediate future

As for the Pennington list Craig, there are species on the list in the foyer that for official county purposes we can't currently include. I appreciate that they may have thier own particular reasons but several were never submitted to the county rarities committee (and it would be unfair to accept them in good faith when other birders would have to submit theirs), although this is something which in time I'd very much like to 'sort out'.

That said, I think Charlie Owen's Pennington Flash list must be around that 208 anyway, so the list from the database does seem well short somewhere (especially when I consider my own list against the birds I know I haven't seen there but have been recorded), perhaps I'll make a little more time somewhere...

Steve Atkins wrote:

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Hi Pete,
Based on records in the GM database (1992 - 2006) the top 10 sites in the county for the most species seen are as follows:
1. Pennington - 208 species
2. Audenshaw - 184
3. Elton Resr - 179
4. Rumworth Lodge - 178
5. Shell Carrington - 170
6. Scotmans Flash - 163
7. Hollingworth Lake - 162
8. Hope Carr NR - 159
9. Watergrove Resr - 155
10. Piethorne Valley - 151
I have deducted from the Pennington list escapes and feral species. The figures from the other sites include these. If anyone is interested in a species list for a particular site please e-mail me: steveatkins@tiscali.co.uk
Without giving away too much Ian and I should in the near future be able to produce all time species lists for all the major GM sites. I am pleased to see that my local patch makes it into the top ten without any statistical trickery on my part!

Steve

Correction to earlier post - The Piethorne Valley is in 10th place. Apologies Bill! So there are 3 Rochdale sites in the top 10!!!! Does that make Rochdale the best borough in GM for birdwatching?



-- Edited by Steve Atkins at 15:45, 2007-08-04

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I could be completely wrong here but...when I worked at Pennington I did a checklist of species recorded (including Feral spp such as Feral Rock Dove but not Bar Headed Goose) and I'm sure it was round about the 230 mark. It used to be posted in the foyer on the notice board on the left. Since then I cant think of any species that have occurred there that wouldnt have been on that list (this was around 2003/4) so it will be interesting to compare the list Ian has with the one I complied.

Ian, come on lets see them all time site lists

Very interested to see where Elton would be with old records of Black Eared Wheater and the like

Forget I ever wrote this!!

Should look more closely in future - promise!

-- Edited by Bill Myerscough at 18:52, 2007-08-31

Park for free just across the canal bridge on Common Lane - just as near to the hides and your car is safe.

rezMole wrote:

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I think you can apply for a seaon ticket.

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yes you can get a parking permit, forms from the ranger station on the right as you go through the door.

the charge is £37-00 for 12 months.

Ken.

thanks ill try that next time i go.

I've said it before and I'll say it again , best birding site is about much more than what rare birds it has recorded or how many it has on it's species list. Consider viewing facilities (not forgetting for wheelchair users), parking and toilet facilities, hides, available information, paths and access and most importantly what birds there are to see at all times of the year (not just rarities). Consider these factors and there is absolutely no doubt Pennington is the clear winner, you can circumnavigate the hides, spend hours in the feeding station (especially in winter) or get away from them all by walking the entire route round the flash, all seasons there have birds and mostly the views are fantastic. Sure it can get very busy with screaming kids and ice-cream munchers sometimes, the car park isn't cheap (well not as cheap as when it used to be free anyway!) and sitting in hides isn't everyone's cup of tea but the variety of habitats and possibilities they behold are the key for me personally

How long has "Greater Manchester" existed as a county?

I think we have to be careful here, because Steve's figures are only from 1992 onwards, when the database started. Ian McKerchar has mentioned to me that he might possibly have a look at the all-time county list in the coming winter, and that might produce some surprises. For example, Altrincham sewage works had some real crackers in the days when there were lots of old-fashioned sludge lagoons, in the 50s and 60s.
For those who have the 1993 bird report, that was the last time the all-time list was published.

Elton Res in 3rd place??? That is a surprise.

Hi Pete,
Based on records in the GM database (1992 - 2006) the top 10 sites in the county for the most species seen are as follows:
1. Pennington - 208 species
2. Audenshaw - 184
3. Elton Resr - 179
4. Rumworth Lodge - 178
5. Shell Carrington - 170
6. Scotmans Flash - 163
7. Hollingworth Lake - 162
8. Hope Carr NR - 159
9. Watergrove Resr - 155
10. Piethorne Valley - 151
I have deducted from the Pennington list escapes and feral species. The figures from the other sites include these. If anyone is interested in a species list for a particular site please e-mail me: steveatkins@tiscali.co.uk
Without giving away too much Ian and I should in the near future be able to produce all time species lists for all the major GM sites. I am pleased to see that my local patch makes it into the top ten without any statistical trickery on my part!

Steve

Correction to earlier post - The Piethorne Valley is in 10th place. Apologies Bill! So there are 3 Rochdale sites in the top 10!!!! Does that make Rochdale the best borough in GM for birdwatching?

-- Edited by Steve Atkins at 15:45, 2007-08-04

You can get bacon butties / ice-cream and a cup of tea at Pennington and sit in the dry in hides, so it's deffo the best for overall birding.

Audenshaw may have had better birds but you also run the risk of hypothermia !

I think you can apply for a seaon ticket.

DEFFO PENNY FLASH BUT IM LAZY AND THE CAR PARKS COSTING ME A FORTUNE MAYBE US BIRDERS SHOULD GET ONTO THE COUNCIL FOR SOME SORT OF DISCOUNT IE YEAR PASS.

pennington-no contest

Surely china town car park in the city is the now the best site in the county?

Yeah got to be Pennington Pete - where else has a july Leach's

I've been thinking about which is the best site in the county,it has to be either Audenshaw or Pennington(unless you know different)Off the top of my head Audies had White Billed Diver,Green Winged Teal,Purple Sand,Velvet Scoter,Ringed Bill gull, Sabines Gull.Penningtons had Blue Winged Teal,Canvasback,Lesser Scaup,Whiskered Tern,White Winged Black,Nightinggale,Little Auk,Pec Sand,Long Tailed and Pom Skua,Ringed Bill Gull, Ring-necked Duck, American Wigeon and last but not least Black faced Bunting,a first for Britain.My vote has to go for Pennington,I can't think of anywhere else in the county with such an impressive list.Wots your thoughts on this,all contributions gratefully received.

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar at 22:10, 2007-08-04