It would seem that apart from birding and perhaps the eurovision song contest, representation usually has an element of loyalty to contributors. Why do people want a county bird that is probably lost or has no sense of direction or only bothers the county with a rare visit. Surely we should be recognising at least an all year resident or breeding resident to represent us. Stonechat or perhaps goosander spring to mind. Ok I may be showing a bit too much upland loyalty but i'd much prefer a bird that belongs here Steve
Adam Davison said
Fri Mar 9 8:20 PM, 2007
Ive some great birds in greater manchester over the last 36 years (been keeping notes since 1971) and think I saw the county bird this morning. The male Desert Wheatear performing in the open, less than 10 meters away filling my scope blew birds like the Black faced bunting and River warbler out of the running by miles.
Dean Macdonald said
Sun Feb 25 11:12 PM, 2007
I must say sorry for the previous post. We're half way through a second bottle of wine and we really shouldn't be on here. Bye for now.
Dean Macdonald said
Sun Feb 25 10:39 PM, 2007
Be carefull guys you're in danger of dissapearing up you're own arses here. Do you want this forum to be popular or elitist? If it's elitist then i'm out of here. I enjoy coming on here, there's some great info about sightings and stuff. I like the fact that most people are serious birders and i learn a lot from that. But don't exclude us potential serious birders, who will be put off by being patronised.
dave broome said
Sat Feb 24 2:12 PM, 2007
Re: toucans, we had a Channel-Billed Toucan in the garden at Ashton-in-Makerfield in 2005, definitely a few hundred miles from its rain-forest home!! In the escapes section of that years annual report it was dismissed as being from the same local aviary as an escaped parakeet - which wasn't the case. Mind you it did have a stonking great metal ring on its leg, which was the only thing stopping me from claiming it as a ship-assisted first for Britain, straight from Liverpool Docks
pete berry said
Fri Feb 16 5:18 PM, 2007
Yes Ian,got to agree with you on this,the fact that there were 5 previous accepted Western Pal. records all of 1st winter birds,and several accepted records since(including Britain),plus the fact that the rumour of someone releasing birds in Holland was found to be unsubstantiated, all lends credence to this being a genuine vagrant.When the record was being assessed Tim Inskip only found 4 records of Black Faced Buntings being offered for sale in this country between 1975 and 1990,not what you would class as a popular cage bird. I would also add that nearly all species of birds are kept in captivity somewhere in the world(I remember seeing a Keel-Billed Toucan flying around the back streets of Mazatalan in Mexico,several hundred miles from its rain forest home),and therefore it is possible that any rare bird could potentially be an escape. This is why we have a rarities committee to assess all such records.Anyway its pn my list!!
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Feb 16 4:09 PM, 2007
An interesting thread this, so here's my two-penneth worth :
Firstly, I couldn't agree more with Tom that you should take with a pinch of salt, a lot of what's written on Birdforum. Whilst there are undoubtably some very well informed and decent birders on there, they are perhaps out-numbered by those ill-informed birders to whom posting stuff on Birdforum, which they know little about, is as close to birding as it gets for them!
Anyway, Black-faced Bunting! For me personally, it remains the county bird, afterall, it was and still remains a first for Britain, not something may counties can claim. What Judith writes is indeed true but the bird was accepted by the British Ornithologists Union Rarities Committee and they are a team of the finest birders and ornithologists in Europe, including a captive bird expert, who extremely carefully decide upon all aspects of firsts for Britain including it's escape potential. That they accepted the bird (a decision not taken likely) is more than enough for me to give it credibility, yes birds are imported and released in Europe but whilst birds have wings they will continue to defy belief and make incredible journeys to reach our shores, Yellow-browed and Pallas Warblers do it regularly and no one questions their validity but a 'grotty' bunting that undertakes a similar migration and ends up in Leigh! How about Eastern Crowned Warbler? They said it would never happen and it has occurred in Europe twice, Ancient and Long-billed Murrelet, Aleutian Tern, Pacific Diver, Baikal Teal, Needle-tailed Swift, there are so many amazing journeys undertaken by vagrants that have reached our shores and long may they continue. I have always maintained that they should be innocent until proven guilty (so no, you can't have the Red-breasted Goose), like the current Red-crested Pochard at Wigan Flashes, yes I think it's 'dodgy' but currently I have no proof of that and until then it remains countable.
That's me anyway, it'll remain my county bird until the next first for Britain that gets found, hopefully somehwere near Leigh and hopefully by me this time
Ian Woosey said
Fri Feb 16 10:05 AM, 2007
Thanks for clarifying both subjects Judith, especially the origins of the Black-faced Bunting.......very interesting !
Judith Smith said
Fri Feb 16 9:12 AM, 2007
The reason why the Whiskered Tern is our county bird - or rather, the motif for the Greater Manchester Bird Recording Group which produces the countybird report, is because the Group was founded just at the time that bird was at Pennington Flash, in May 2002. The Black-faced Bunting: at the time that was found, the Chinese had just freed up their ecomony and were desperate for foreign currency. People were catching and exporting large numbers of birds of any variety, and many of these were going to the Low Countries. Dealers there were suspected of releasing many of the unwanted birds into the wild. One dealer in Holland was reported as having foreign birds "in and around his aviaries"! Black-faced Bunting is not a species particularly wanted by aviculturalists. A released bird in Holland might well attach itself to congenors such as Reed Buntings and move west to mild Wigan. So the answer is that we will never know but circumstantially it is likely to have got as far as Europe on a plane.
Geoff Hargreaves said
Thu Feb 15 9:43 PM, 2007
tom,your just tight,personally it would be a certain smew i know,but a county bird,the peregrine gets it for me,how many other birds offer it,s street cred,
the red blackstarts good,but if you got em in your town hall flaunt em. discuss (quietly)geoff
Tom McKinney said
Thu Feb 15 8:43 PM, 2007
I wouldn't pay too much attention to some of the ramblings on Birdforum!
Black-faced Bunting is probably the 'best' bird, but not exactly a winner in the beauty stakes is it?
Bufflehead would be my choice, for a start it doesn't require colour ink cartridges!
Steven Astley said
Thu Feb 15 7:49 PM, 2007
I wasn't birding when the Black-faced Bunting was found. On Birdforum lots of people believe it was an escapee.
As for county bird what about Willow Tit, seems to be a stronghold around here and lots of out of county birders know of the Pennington Willow Tits. Also what about the City centre Peregrine.
-- Edited by Steven Astley at 19:55, 2007-02-15
Ian Woosey said
Thu Feb 15 7:25 PM, 2007
I`ve just been browsing through the `Fat Birder` website and their link for birding in Greater Manchester. Apparently our `County Bird` is Whiskered Tern` ! Does anyone happen to know why this is and who chose it ?
I`ve not a clue what constitutes a `county bird` anyway but I would have thought a better choice would have been Black-faced Bunting, it being the first for Britain ? ?
Discuss ! ( if you`ve nothing better to do )
Why do people want a county bird that is probably lost or has no sense of direction or only bothers the county with a rare visit.
Surely we should be recognising at least an all year resident or breeding resident to represent us.
Stonechat or perhaps goosander spring to mind.
Ok I may be showing a bit too much upland loyalty but i'd much prefer a bird that belongs here
Steve
I must say sorry for the previous post. We're half way through a second bottle of wine and we really shouldn't be on here.
Bye for now.
Be carefull guys you're in danger of dissapearing up you're own arses here.
Do you want this forum to be popular or elitist?
If it's elitist then i'm out of here.
I enjoy coming on here, there's some great info about sightings and stuff.
I like the fact that most people are serious birders and i learn a lot from that. But don't exclude us potential serious birders, who will be put off by being patronised.
I would also add that nearly all species of birds are kept in captivity somewhere in the world(I remember seeing a Keel-Billed Toucan flying around the back streets of Mazatalan in Mexico,several hundred miles from its rain forest home),and therefore it is possible that any rare bird could potentially be an escape.
This is why we have a rarities committee to assess all such records.Anyway its pn my list!!
Firstly, I couldn't agree more with Tom that you should take with a pinch of salt, a lot of what's written on Birdforum. Whilst there are undoubtably some very well informed and decent birders on there, they are perhaps out-numbered by those ill-informed birders to whom posting stuff on Birdforum, which they know little about, is as close to birding as it gets for them!
Anyway, Black-faced Bunting! For me personally, it remains the county bird, afterall, it was and still remains a first for Britain, not something may counties can claim. What Judith writes is indeed true but the bird was accepted by the British Ornithologists Union Rarities Committee and they are a team of the finest birders and ornithologists in Europe, including a captive bird expert, who extremely carefully decide upon all aspects of firsts for Britain including it's escape potential. That they accepted the bird (a decision not taken likely) is more than enough for me to give it credibility, yes birds are imported and released in Europe but whilst birds have wings they will continue to defy belief and make incredible journeys to reach our shores, Yellow-browed and Pallas Warblers do it regularly and no one questions their validity but a 'grotty' bunting that undertakes a similar migration and ends up in Leigh! How about Eastern Crowned Warbler? They said it would never happen and it has occurred in Europe twice, Ancient and Long-billed Murrelet, Aleutian Tern, Pacific Diver, Baikal Teal, Needle-tailed Swift, there are so many amazing journeys undertaken by vagrants that have reached our shores and long may they continue. I have always maintained that they should be innocent until proven guilty (so no, you can't have the Red-breasted Goose), like the current Red-crested Pochard at Wigan Flashes, yes I think it's 'dodgy' but currently I have no proof of that and until then it remains countable.
That's me anyway, it'll remain my county bird until the next first for Britain that gets found, hopefully somehwere near Leigh and hopefully by me this time
The Black-faced Bunting: at the time that was found, the Chinese had just freed up their ecomony and were desperate for foreign currency. People were catching and exporting large numbers of birds of any variety, and many of these were going to the Low Countries. Dealers there were suspected of releasing many of the unwanted birds into the wild. One dealer in Holland was reported as having foreign birds "in and around his aviaries"! Black-faced Bunting is not a species particularly wanted by aviculturalists. A released bird in Holland might well attach itself to congenors such as Reed Buntings and move west to mild Wigan. So the answer is that we will never know but circumstantially it is likely to have got as far as Europe on a plane.
bird,the peregrine gets it for me,how many other birds offer it,s street cred,
the red blackstarts good,but if you got em in your town hall flaunt em.
discuss (quietly)geoff
Black-faced Bunting is probably the 'best' bird, but not exactly a winner in the beauty stakes is it?
Bufflehead would be my choice, for a start it doesn't require colour ink cartridges!
As for county bird what about Willow Tit, seems to be a stronghold around here and lots of out of county birders know of the Pennington Willow Tits. Also what about the City centre Peregrine.
-- Edited by Steven Astley at 19:55, 2007-02-15