Late afternoon some signs of birds being frozen off other local waters
56 Goosander
5 Snipe
14 Pochard
24 Goldeneye
5 Snipe
1 Grey Wagtail
1 Adult Mediterranean Gull
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 30th of January 2019 06:38:00 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Jan 30 4:43 PM, 2019
This afternoon:
1 Little Egret
4 Oystercatcher
11 Pochard
1 Cetti's warbler showing well feeding in Ramsdales Reedbed, from the leaning posts
34 Goosander
3 Kingfisher
2 skeins of Pink-footed Geese over west around and just after midday, but unseen due to fog
Ian McKerchar said
Mon Jan 28 1:44 PM, 2019
This morning:
adult Mediterranean Gull
3 Oystercatcher
3 Pochard
2 Greylag Geese
Info thank to Bill Harrison
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Jan 25 6:05 PM, 2019
This morning a Golden Plover was flying around the spit calling with the Lapwings but eventually flew off west.
Perhaps more interestingly, a Yellowhammer was in the feeding station at Bunting Hide.
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
colin davies said
Thu Jan 24 5:26 PM, 2019
3rd winter Iceland gull and adult Mediterranean gull in the roost again this evening. With Phil Rhodes.
JOHN TYMON said
Mon Jan 21 6:06 PM, 2019
3rd winter Iceland and adult Mediterranean Gulls present in this evening's roost and an Adult Yellow Legged Gull seen earlier,the regular bird.
Ian McKerchar said
Sat Jan 19 10:01 PM, 2019
3rd winter Iceland and adult Mediterranean Gulls present in this evening's roost.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Jan 18 9:54 PM, 2019
Earlier this morning:
Male Brambling on the mulch pile at the back of Horrocks Hide
2 Oystercatcher
11 Pochard
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
Steven Heywood said
Fri Jan 18 8:31 PM, 2019
Couple of hours' worth of testing my Christmas present gloves 1:40pm 3:40pm. Of note:
2 oystercatchers
1 second-Winter yellow-legged gull
9 goldeneye
14 reed buntings and 2 willow tits on Bunting Hide
Kingfisher on the brook as you walk into the car park
JOHN TYMON said
Wed Jan 16 6:36 PM, 2019
In the Roost tonight of note
2 Adult Yellow Legged Gull
2 Adult Mediterranean Gull
Roost was aborted for me as I was fed up of the single boat criss /crossing the flash than came on at 3pm surely there should be some restriction when a site is used by so many gulls ,that boats should stop and hour before dusk ,and I think at one time single boats were not allowed to sail on their own ,as there is no rescue boat on if anything goes wrong,seems there are no rules these days .
colin davies said
Tue Jan 15 9:34 PM, 2019
Two adult Mediterranean gulls in the roost this evening, both with almost full hoods.
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Jan 15 12:47 PM, 2019
500 Jackdaw out of the roost this morning. Also present were 12 Goosander, 2 Shelduck, 56 Gadwall, 3 Pochard, 2 Oystercatcher.
Info thanks to Barry Hulme
JOHN TYMON said
Mon Jan 14 6:27 PM, 2019
A Good afternoon at the flash
firstly on my own
1 Little Egret
2 Waxwing - 14.55 on the south bank ,flew west towards the boat clubs only my second ever at the flash .
In the Roost( with Colin Davies and Ray Banks)
2 Adult Yellow Legged Gulls- 1 was the regular 4th Winter/5th CY Bird that has been at the flash in the winter on and off since it was a Juvenile
The 3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted tonight, along with an adult Mediterranean Gull.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Craig Higson said
Sat Jan 12 1:57 PM, 2019
08:00 - 10:30 in Horrocks hide this morning was very quiet. However, the sight of 30 adult Great Black-backed Gulls at the end of the spit is something I don't think I've ever seen before in more than 20 years birding the site. Also nice to see 6 Pochard, which also feels a bit weird to be saying, seeing as not that long ago I'd have been counting into 3 figures.
Paul Richardson said
Sat Jan 12 12:20 PM, 2019
Quick stroll for about an hour on the south side of Penny 9.30-10.30 mainly Aspull Common end
Willow Tit - 4 with 2 behaving like a pair
Siskin - 7 in a tall bush on edge of wildflower meadow which has quite a few alders. They were not feeding at the time - kind of roosting and preening, making a pleasant twittering noise! I don't think I'd have spotted them otherwise. They sounded a bit like a rather muted group of House Sparrows!
Goldfinch - charm of about 25 feeding on ash keys. Treecreeper - 1 Goldcrest - 1 Long Tailed Tit - 5
Ian McKerchar said
Sat Jan 12 7:48 AM, 2019
Late news for yesterday evening when a third winter Caspian Gull roosted which appeared to probably be the ringed bird from Redgate, Gorton X106 (though ring not seen).
Also an adult Yellow-legged Gull and Mediterranean Gull.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Gordon Newman said
Fri Jan 11 8:57 PM, 2019
Little Egret in Ramsdale's mid morning viewed from canal bank as I was passing on my way to Lightshaw
JOHN TYMON said
Thu Jan 10 12:18 PM, 2019
Also this morning 2 little egret in the brook by the golf course brings east of teal hide and 40 redwing in the same area
Ian McKerchar said
Thu Jan 10 11:45 AM, 2019
So far this morning:
adult Iceland Gull still present in the roost early this morning, flew off east at 08:10am
1 Woodcock
2 Oystercatcher
4 Pochard
1 Shelduck
67 Gadwall
12 Siskin
7 Lesser Redpoll
9 Goosander
Info thanks to Bill Harrison and Barry Hulme
JOHN TYMON said
Wed Jan 9 6:45 PM, 2019
Good Gull roost tonight at Pennington Flash with Colin Davies and Phil Rhodes were we managed to find 2 Iceland Gulls ,1 Adult and 1x 3rd Winter an Adult Yellow Legged Gull and a Adult Mediterranean Gull ,so even though it was freezing it was a good afternoon .
pictures the Adult and 3rd winter Iceland Gull digiscoped and a landscape of the roosters
3rd win Iceland gull in the roost tonight, also adult winter Mediterranean gull and leucistic black-headed gull. A very small roost tonight, and nothing came very close to Green Lane.
Ian McKerchar said
Mon Jan 7 6:58 PM, 2019
The 3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted tonight, along with an adult Mediterranean Gull.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
JOHN TYMON said
Sun Jan 6 5:58 PM, 2019
Massive Gull Roost tonight but only thing of note was 1x adult Yellow Legged Gull and 1x 2nd Winter Yellow Legged Gull.
steven burke said
Sat Jan 5 6:27 PM, 2019
I managed to spot the 2 iceland gulls in the roost, I was viewing from next to horrocks hide opposite from Colin & phil. Also a peregrine falcon was over the flash probably keeping an eye on the lapwings that were flying around. Sparrowhawk low over the flash also.
Phil Cunliffe said
Sat Jan 5 5:15 PM, 2019
11:00 to 13:00 today:
Pied Wagtail, Goldeneye, Canada Goose, Mallard, Teal, Tufted Duck, Mute Swan, Herring Gull, Oystercatcher, Lesser Black Backed Gull, Lapwing, Cormorant, Carrion Crow, Black Headed Gull, Moorhen, Magpie, Great Crested Grebe, Chaffinch, Shoveler, Little Egret, Grey Heron, Robin, Gadwall, Goosander, Long Tailed Tit, Blue Tit, Wren (heard only), Nuthatch, Willow Tit, Bullfinch, Reed Bunting, Dunnock, Stock Dove, Coal Tit, Blackbird, Goldfinch, Woodpigeon and last but not least Great Tit.
colin davies said
Sat Jan 5 3:56 PM, 2019
Two Iceland gulls currently in roost, adult and 3rd winter. Also little egret in Ramsdales earlier.
With Phil Rhodes at the roost.
Photos of 3rd win Iceland gull.
-- Edited by colin davies on Saturday 5th of January 2019 05:12:26 PM
Third winter Iceland Gull and an adult Yellow-legged Gull present early this morning, probably left over from the overnight roost.
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
JOHN TYMON said
Tue Jan 1 6:01 PM, 2019
PM
Wigeon- 1 male
Pochard- 4
Goldeneye-16
Great Crested Grebe-19
Little Grebe-2
Oystercatcher-2
In the Gull roost
Yellow Legged Gull - 1 Adult
Iceland Gull - 1 x 3 w came in very late to the roost
Caspian Gull- 1 1st winter (looked like the one from 5 weeks ago)
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Tuesday 1st of January 2019 07:08:58 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Mon Dec 31 12:35 PM, 2018
Female Common Scoter present this morning, along with 2 Oystercatcher and 26 Pink-footed Geese over west.
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
JOHN TYMON said
Sun Dec 30 5:09 PM, 2018
Of note this morning 1adult Yellow legged gull and 2 Oystercatcher.
PHIL GREENWOOD said
Sat Dec 29 2:42 PM, 2018
Sorry for my post getting curtailed. Only the Siskin were at the feeding station hide.
PHIL GREENWOOD said
Sat Dec 29 2:39 PM, 2018
Late morning I managed just 1 Oystercatcher. Also a lone Pink foot over the flash. 10 Goldeneye, 20 Goosander, 1 Little Egret, 1 male Pochard and 5+ Siskin at the feeding station hide, or whatever it
Craig Higson said
Sat Dec 29 12:34 PM, 2018
Very very quiet this morning. Two Oystercatchers (one the resident bird) best this morning.
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Dec 28 8:49 PM, 2018
The third winter Iceland Gull roosted again this evening.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Dec 25 12:10 PM, 2018
Oystercatcher still knocking about this morning but quiet otherwise on a walk around.
colin davies said
Mon Dec 24 9:59 PM, 2018
Third winter Iceland gull in the roost again tonight, also a possible adult yellow-legged gull.
Late on, 20 minutes after sunset, we picked up a very odd looking gull, basically an immature (1st win?) lesser black-back but with a bright white head. Probably just an abberrant lesser black-back but worth a look if anybody is doing the roost in the next few days. Photo attached.
JOHN TYMON said
Sun Dec 23 3:23 PM, 2018
4 Hours round the North bank with Karl Bishop
of note
Reed Bunting - 26
Gadwall - 126 (possibly the largest number ive had at the flash)
Goosander- 21
Great Black Backed Gull -21
Shoveler- 26
Goldeneye- 19
Nuthatch-2
plus the usuals
Ian McKerchar said
Sun Dec 23 12:17 AM, 2018
3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted again yesterday evening.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Dec 21 10:23 PM, 2018
3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted this evening.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Ian McKerchar said
Fri Dec 21 9:40 AM, 2018
Highlights so far this morning:
1 Little Egret
300 Lapwing
65 Gadwall
Info thanks to Barry Hulme
JOHN TYMON said
Thu Dec 20 5:55 PM, 2018
roost done with Colin Davies
In the Roost tonight
Iceland Gull - 1 x 3rd Winter
Yellow Legged Gull- 2 Adults
Mediterranean Gull - 1 Adult
also of note today
Kingfisher-2
Sparrowhawk-1
Song thrush - 12 on one field on the south side
Buzzard-2
Lapwing-c150
Oystercatcher-1
Goosander 19
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Thursday 20th of December 2018 09:12:32 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Thu Dec 20 11:53 AM, 2018
As I see it there is certainly no argument over the identification of this gull, discussion yes, but either way if it evolves any further could it please be continued on a separate thread on the discussion forum where it could be continued at length as necessary
Dave Cropper said
Thu Dec 20 10:59 AM, 2018
Without wanting to get into the argument over this particular individual bird, for those birders who saw the bird at Sale WP recently, the fact that it was SO white-headed made it easy to locate amongst the other large gulls and then enable a study of all the other features to confirm the identity. (Without the need of photographic evidence).
I have probably seen tens of thousands of Yellow-legged Gulls in range in Europe over the last 20 years but have struggled to get DEFINITE sightings in the UK - they are not as easy as people may now think.
Alex Lees said
Thu Dec 20 9:52 AM, 2018
JOHN TYMON wrote:
I am happy that its a Yellow Legged Gull ,in fact ive no daupts about it ,I have been watching it for 2 weeks plus ,unfortunately I have been the only one apart from Phil doing the roosts in the main this Winter and I am sure I am capable of identifying adult Yellow Legged Gull and other ages of YLG in the field , also Caspian as well which I have found the last 3 at least at the flash. Don't always go off the one photograph posted lighting conditions can play tricks I have sent shots of that bird in between LBBG, and Argentatus Herring and its spot on in Mantle colour in the correct light ,Ian has had many more pics of this bird off me and has posted it in the Gallery also as Yellow Legged Gull on the main site ,Phil has also seen it on several occasions without me and its been posted as Yellow legged Gull . It Looks nothing like a Hybrid either to me but I have watched it for hours in the field.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 03:29:17 PM
Hi John
Please don't take offence at my questioning, and even more importantly please don't stop posting pictures, and more than one for tricky birds - do you have others of this bird? The whole point of internet fora is to promote discussion and our knowledge of the ecology and identification of these birds improves iteratively one bird at a time. I am not a gull guru but see enough of them to know they are very hard and routinely send images to friends to get a second opinion, in your case because if it is a YLGU then I needed to rethink my search image for them. My interest is in understanding the community ecology of gulls and where they are in space and time. It would be very useful if more rather than less people posted pics of purported YLGUs as we would expect them to be potentially outnumbered by hybrids which superficially resemble YLGulls https://www.flickr.com/photos/fyldebirdclub/28456601856/ sometimes very closely https://www.flickr.com/photos/fyldebirdclub/39426451414 and until we can identify them with some certainty these patterns of occurrence are occluded.
A cursory glance at images of YLGUs from Iberia in Dec-Jan shows that birds with head streaking would be very unusual - https://ebird.org/media/catalog?bmo=12&taxonCode=yelgul1&mr=MCUSTOM&emo=1&q=Yellow-legged%20Gull%20-%20Larus%20michahellis and your bird also has a domed head which is more typical of LBBG - in addition to the subtleties of primary patterns. Mantle colour may be a good way of finding candidate YLGUs but it isn't a foolproof way of confirming that they are YLGUs. I saw quite a few in the states - see some purported hybrids here - https://ebird.org/media/catalog?bmo=12&taxonCode=x00057&mr=MCUSTOM&emo=1&q=Herring%20x%20Lesser%20Black-backed%20Gull%20(hybrid)%20-%20Larus%20argentatus%20x%20fuscus from the same period all with extensive head streaking.
Some discussion of Pete's birds - thanks for posting - would be instructive...
best
-- Edited by Alex Lees on Thursday 20th of December 2018 10:40:25 AM
Pete Kinsella said
Wed Dec 19 7:46 PM, 2018
Hi folks, I've read with interest this discussion on Yellow-legged Gulls or hybrids. I have visted the Viridor waste management centre at Atherton on a few occasions recently. There have been a few hybrids resembling Yellow-legged Gulls present there. I guess just like the 3rdw Iceland Gull that uses the Viridor site and then roosts at Pennington Flash, then maybe these hybrids may do the same? I've attached a few pics of the hybrids from Atherton. I realise these may be more appropriate on the Atherton thread, but thought they may provide some reference to the discussion on this thread,
Also the head streaking looks a bit too much for this time of year,yl gulls can show a bit of" pencil streaking" but only earlier in the autumn,by now it should really be white headed and the white mirrors look a little too big for yl gull?
I am happy that its a Yellow Legged Gull ,in fact ive no daupts about it ,I have been watching it for 2 weeks plus ,unfortunately I have been the only one apart from Phil doing the roosts in the main this Winter and I am sure I am capable of identifying adult Yellow Legged Gull and other ages of YLG in the field , also Caspian as well which I have found the last 3 at least at the flash. Don't always go off the one photograph posted lighting conditions can play tricks I have sent shots of that bird in between LBBG, and Argentatus Herring and its spot on in Mantle colour in the correct light ,Ian has had many more pics of this bird off me and has posted it in the Gallery also as Yellow Legged Gull on the main site ,Phil has also seen it on several occasions without me and its been posted as Yellow legged Gull . It Looks nothing like a Hybrid either to me but I have watched it for hours in the field. I don't know who Chris Batty is either? probably a Gull Guru ,but I don't know him ,but he may know me ,I don't know everyone by name,same with Alex ,I may have met him but not sure, as I never seem to see anyone but Phil at the roost. ,and I tend to tread my own path and spend my hours in the field normally on my own . So probably best to for me not to post single shots of Yellow legged Gull in a post on here and just send them in with a Rarities form as I normally do,and as everyone else should ,no exceptions as we all make mistakes. I probably won't in future bother adding pics of rare gulls to the forum ,I will just do like everyone else and just post what I see as, I don't see many pics from many of the others claimed . I have seen Yellow Legged Gulls with head streaking at this time of year before.
p.s
I do know Chris Batty, I just had to think for a min ,I have spoken to him in the past but if hes had my picture its not come off me ,so someone else must have sent it him,which without my permission is not right.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 03:29:17 PM
pete berry said
Wed Dec 19 9:39 AM, 2018
Also the head streaking looks a bit too much for this time of year,yl gulls can show a bit of" pencil streaking" but only earlier in the autumn,by now it should really be white headed and the white mirrors look a little too big for yl gull?
Alex Lees said
Wed Dec 19 9:30 AM, 2018
JOHN TYMON wrote:
and the 2 yellow legged Gulls Digiscoped
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Friday 14th of December 2018 08:07:53 AM
I noticed the middle Yellow-legged Gull pic the other day which looks better for an adult LBBGxHEGU hybrid, given the head pattern and head shape, Chris Batty agreed and added 'long white tip to P10 is rare in michahellis away from the eastern Med' - hybrids seem to be far more abundant (by an order of magnitude) in the NW than actual YLGUs, which is surprising considering how regular YLGU is as close as the Peak District in late summer.
Late afternoon some signs of birds being frozen off other local waters
56 Goosander
5 Snipe
14 Pochard
24 Goldeneye
5 Snipe
1 Grey Wagtail
1 Adult Mediterranean Gull
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 30th of January 2019 06:38:00 PM
This afternoon:
1 Little Egret
4 Oystercatcher
11 Pochard
1 Cetti's warbler showing well feeding in Ramsdales Reedbed, from the leaning posts
34 Goosander
3 Kingfisher
2 skeins of Pink-footed Geese over west around and just after midday, but unseen due to fog
This morning:
adult Mediterranean Gull
3 Oystercatcher
3 Pochard
2 Greylag Geese
Info thank to Bill Harrison
This morning a Golden Plover was flying around the spit calling with the Lapwings but eventually flew off west.
Perhaps more interestingly, a Yellowhammer was in the feeding station at Bunting Hide.
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
3rd winter Iceland gull and adult Mediterranean gull in the roost again this evening. With Phil Rhodes.
3rd winter Iceland and adult Mediterranean Gulls present in this evening's roost and an Adult Yellow Legged Gull seen earlier,the regular bird.
3rd winter Iceland and adult Mediterranean Gulls present in this evening's roost.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Earlier this morning:
Male Brambling on the mulch pile at the back of Horrocks Hide
2 Oystercatcher
11 Pochard
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
Couple of hours' worth of testing my Christmas present gloves 1:40pm 3:40pm. Of note:
In the Roost tonight of note
2 Adult Yellow Legged Gull
2 Adult Mediterranean Gull
Roost was aborted for me as I was fed up of the single boat criss /crossing the flash than came on at 3pm surely there should be some restriction when a site is used by so many gulls ,that boats should stop and hour before dusk ,and I think at one time single boats were not allowed to sail on their own ,as there is no rescue boat on if anything goes wrong,seems there are no rules these days .
Two adult Mediterranean gulls in the roost this evening, both with almost full hoods.
500 Jackdaw out of the roost this morning. Also present were 12 Goosander, 2 Shelduck, 56 Gadwall, 3 Pochard, 2 Oystercatcher.
Info thanks to Barry Hulme
A Good afternoon at the flash
firstly on my own
1 Little Egret
2 Waxwing - 14.55 on the south bank ,flew west towards the boat clubs only my second ever at the flash .
In the Roost( with Colin Davies and Ray Banks)
2 Adult Yellow Legged Gulls- 1 was the regular 4th Winter/5th CY Bird that has been at the flash in the winter on and off since it was a Juvenile
Iceland Gull- 1 3rd Winter
Mediterranean Gull - 1 Adult
Black Headed Gull - 1 Leucistic bird in the roost
Picture the regular 4th W/ 5cy Yellow Legged Gull
The 3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted tonight, along with an adult Mediterranean Gull.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Willow Tit - 4 with 2 behaving like a pair
Siskin - 7 in a tall bush on edge of wildflower meadow which has quite a few alders. They were not feeding at the time - kind of roosting and preening, making a pleasant twittering noise! I don't think I'd have spotted them otherwise. They sounded a bit like a rather muted group of House Sparrows!
Goldfinch - charm of about 25 feeding on ash keys.
Treecreeper - 1
Goldcrest - 1
Long Tailed Tit - 5
Late news for yesterday evening when a third winter Caspian Gull roosted which appeared to probably be the ringed bird from Redgate, Gorton X106 (though ring not seen).
Also an adult Yellow-legged Gull and Mediterranean Gull.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
So far this morning:
adult Iceland Gull still present in the roost early this morning, flew off east at 08:10am
1 Woodcock
2 Oystercatcher
4 Pochard
1 Shelduck
67 Gadwall
12 Siskin
7 Lesser Redpoll
9 Goosander
Info thanks to Bill Harrison and Barry Hulme
Good Gull roost tonight at Pennington Flash with Colin Davies and Phil Rhodes were we managed to find 2 Iceland Gulls ,1 Adult and 1x 3rd Winter an Adult Yellow Legged Gull and a Adult Mediterranean Gull ,so even though it was freezing it was a good afternoon .
pictures the Adult and 3rd winter Iceland Gull digiscoped and a landscape of the roosters
3rd win Iceland gull in the roost tonight, also adult winter Mediterranean gull and leucistic black-headed gull. A very small roost tonight, and nothing came very close to Green Lane.
The 3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted tonight, along with an adult Mediterranean Gull.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Massive Gull Roost tonight but only thing of note was 1x adult Yellow Legged Gull and 1x 2nd Winter Yellow Legged Gull.
Also a peregrine falcon was over the flash probably keeping an eye on the lapwings that were flying around.
Sparrowhawk low over the flash also.
Two Iceland gulls currently in roost, adult and 3rd winter. Also little egret in Ramsdales earlier.
With Phil Rhodes at the roost.
Photos of 3rd win Iceland gull.
-- Edited by colin davies on Saturday 5th of January 2019 05:12:26 PM
Third winter Iceland Gull and an adult Yellow-legged Gull present early this morning, probably left over from the overnight roost.
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
PM
Wigeon- 1 male
Pochard- 4
Goldeneye-16
Great Crested Grebe-19
Little Grebe-2
Oystercatcher-2
In the Gull roost
Yellow Legged Gull - 1 Adult
Iceland Gull - 1 x 3 w came in very late to the roost
Caspian Gull- 1 1st winter (looked like the one from 5 weeks ago)
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Tuesday 1st of January 2019 07:08:58 PM
Female Common Scoter present this morning, along with 2 Oystercatcher and 26 Pink-footed Geese over west.
Info thanks to Bill Harrison
10 Goldeneye, 20 Goosander, 1 Little Egret, 1 male Pochard and 5+ Siskin at the feeding station hide, or whatever it
The third winter Iceland Gull roosted again this evening.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Oystercatcher still knocking about this morning but quiet otherwise on a walk around.
Third winter Iceland gull in the roost again tonight, also a possible adult yellow-legged gull.
Late on, 20 minutes after sunset, we picked up a very odd looking gull, basically an immature (1st win?) lesser black-back but with a bright white head. Probably just an abberrant lesser black-back but worth a look if anybody is doing the roost in the next few days. Photo attached.
4 Hours round the North bank with Karl Bishop
of note
Reed Bunting - 26
Gadwall - 126 (possibly the largest number ive had at the flash)
Goosander- 21
Great Black Backed Gull -21
Shoveler- 26
Goldeneye- 19
Nuthatch-2
plus the usuals
3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted again yesterday evening.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
3rd winter Iceland Gull roosted this evening.
Info thanks to Phil Rhodes
Highlights so far this morning:
1 Little Egret
300 Lapwing
65 Gadwall
Info thanks to Barry Hulme
roost done with Colin Davies
In the Roost tonight
Iceland Gull - 1 x 3rd Winter
Yellow Legged Gull- 2 Adults
Mediterranean Gull - 1 Adult
also of note today
Kingfisher-2
Sparrowhawk-1
Song thrush - 12 on one field on the south side
Buzzard-2
Lapwing-c150
Oystercatcher-1
Goosander 19
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Thursday 20th of December 2018 09:12:32 PM
As I see it there is certainly no argument over the identification of this gull, discussion yes, but either way if it evolves any further could it please be continued on a separate thread on the discussion forum where it could be continued at length as necessary
Without wanting to get into the argument over this particular individual bird, for those birders who saw the bird at Sale WP recently, the fact that it was SO white-headed made it easy to locate amongst the other large gulls and then enable a study of all the other features to confirm the identity. (Without the need of photographic evidence).
I have probably seen tens of thousands of Yellow-legged Gulls in range in Europe over the last 20 years but have struggled to get DEFINITE sightings in the UK - they are not as easy as people may now think.
Hi John
Please don't take offence at my questioning, and even more importantly please don't stop posting pictures, and more than one for tricky birds - do you have others of this bird? The whole point of internet fora is to promote discussion and our knowledge of the ecology and identification of these birds improves iteratively one bird at a time. I am not a gull guru but see enough of them to know they are very hard and routinely send images to friends to get a second opinion, in your case because if it is a YLGU then I needed to rethink my search image for them. My interest is in understanding the community ecology of gulls and where they are in space and time. It would be very useful if more rather than less people posted pics of purported YLGUs as we would expect them to be potentially outnumbered by hybrids which superficially resemble YLGulls https://www.flickr.com/photos/fyldebirdclub/28456601856/ sometimes very closely https://www.flickr.com/photos/fyldebirdclub/39426451414 and until we can identify them with some certainty these patterns of occurrence are occluded.
A cursory glance at images of YLGUs from Iberia in Dec-Jan shows that birds with head streaking would be very unusual - https://ebird.org/media/catalog?bmo=12&taxonCode=yelgul1&mr=MCUSTOM&emo=1&q=Yellow-legged%20Gull%20-%20Larus%20michahellis and your bird also has a domed head which is more typical of LBBG - in addition to the subtleties of primary patterns. Mantle colour may be a good way of finding candidate YLGUs but it isn't a foolproof way of confirming that they are YLGUs. I saw quite a few in the states - see some purported hybrids here - https://ebird.org/media/catalog?bmo=12&taxonCode=x00057&mr=MCUSTOM&emo=1&q=Herring%20x%20Lesser%20Black-backed%20Gull%20(hybrid)%20-%20Larus%20argentatus%20x%20fuscus from the same period all with extensive head streaking.
Some discussion of Pete's birds - thanks for posting - would be instructive...
best
-- Edited by Alex Lees on Thursday 20th of December 2018 10:40:25 AM
Hi folks, I've read with interest this discussion on Yellow-legged Gulls or hybrids. I have visted the Viridor waste management centre at Atherton on a few occasions recently. There have been a few hybrids resembling Yellow-legged Gulls present there. I guess just like the 3rdw Iceland Gull that uses the Viridor site and then roosts at Pennington Flash, then maybe these hybrids may do the same? I've attached a few pics of the hybrids from Atherton. I realise these may be more appropriate on the Atherton thread, but thought they may provide some reference to the discussion on this thread,
All the best, Pete.
A minimum of 71 Gadwall present this morning.
Info thanks to Barry Hulme
I am happy that its a Yellow Legged Gull ,in fact ive no daupts about it ,I have been watching it for 2 weeks plus ,unfortunately I have been the only one apart from Phil doing the roosts in the main this Winter and I am sure I am capable of identifying adult Yellow Legged Gull and other ages of YLG in the field , also Caspian as well which I have found the last 3 at least at the flash. Don't always go off the one photograph posted lighting conditions can play tricks I have sent shots of that bird in between LBBG, and Argentatus Herring and its spot on in Mantle colour in the correct light ,Ian has had many more pics of this bird off me and has posted it in the Gallery also as Yellow Legged Gull on the main site ,Phil has also seen it on several occasions without me and its been posted as Yellow legged Gull . It Looks nothing like a Hybrid either to me but I have watched it for hours in the field. I don't know who Chris Batty is either? probably a Gull Guru ,but I don't know him ,but he may know me ,I don't know everyone by name,same with Alex ,I may have met him but not sure, as I never seem to see anyone but Phil at the roost. ,and I tend to tread my own path and spend my hours in the field normally on my own . So probably best to for me not to post single shots of Yellow legged Gull in a post on here and just send them in with a Rarities form as I normally do,and as everyone else should ,no exceptions as we all make mistakes. I probably won't in future bother adding pics of rare gulls to the forum ,I will just do like everyone else and just post what I see as, I don't see many pics from many of the others claimed . I have seen Yellow Legged Gulls with head streaking at this time of year before.
p.s
I do know Chris Batty, I just had to think for a min ,I have spoken to him in the past but if hes had my picture its not come off me ,so someone else must have sent it him,which without my permission is not right.
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 03:29:17 PM
I noticed the middle Yellow-legged Gull pic the other day which looks better for an adult LBBGxHEGU hybrid, given the head pattern and head shape, Chris Batty agreed and added 'long white tip to P10 is rare in michahellis away from the eastern Med' - hybrids seem to be far more abundant (by an order of magnitude) in the NW than actual YLGUs, which is surprising considering how regular YLGU is as close as the Peak District in late summer.
Anyone any thoughts?