The 2010 Borough Year List Challenge: Update 2 of 12 February
Thought i'd give the totals a round-up at end of the second month of 2010 already. A big increase to tewlve "competitors" representing 7 of the total of 10 boroughs now:
Rob Thorpe - WIGAN - 98 Dave Broome - WIGAN - 89 Simon Warford - BOLTON - 88 Ian Woosey - WIGAN - 86 John Rayner - STOCKPORT - 79 Henry Cook - TRAFFORD - 77 Craig Higson - WIGAN - 77 Jimmy Meadows - WIGAN - 76 Geoff Hargreaves - WIGAN -73 Simon Johnson - BURY - 59 Steve Atkins - ROCHDALE - 55 Rachael Hill - TAMESIDE - 51
I think round-up is accurate but please correct me if I have outdone anyone a species, or ten?! Just Manchester and Salford remain unrepresented but i'ts never too late to add up your total and put it up on here. Matt for Oldham, and Karen for Tameside, how many species have you seen?
With spring here there's hardly a better time to get out and see lots of new species in the boroughs as some of our summer migrants begin to return by the month's end. Thanks. Henry.
Just a little add on to the lists Charlie Owen-top bloke ,top birder,top leyther had 88 species in 2 days sat and sunday just gone within 5 miles of Leigh town centre-which is a beltin number at this time of year.don't know how many he'd have had if he had been seriously doing it since Jan 1st
Matt Potter said
Mon Mar 1 3:48 PM, 2010
Henry Cook wrote:
Matt for Oldham, and Karen for Tameside, how many species have you seen?
I will be putting my list together soon! I was waiting until I actually got out locally to make the list worthwhile! I should be able to beat Tameside though no probs!!
Rachael Hill said
Mon Mar 1 1:34 PM, 2010
Thanks Henry Wonder why Rob's so happy From one end of the competition to the other....Tameside! Karen has got a few extra than me for Tameside but we are rather enjoying being the underdogs Just think of how many more we can spot Rae
Rob Thorpe said
Mon Mar 1 1:21 PM, 2010
Cheers Henry
Henry Cook said
Mon Mar 1 12:18 PM, 2010
The 2010 Borough Year List Challenge: Update 2 of 12 February
Thought i'd give the totals a round-up at end of the second month of 2010 already. A big increase to fouteen "competitors" representing 8 of the total of 10 boroughs now:
Rob Thorpe - WIGAN - 98 Dave Broome - WIGAN - 89 Simon Warford - BOLTON - 88 Ian Woosey - WIGAN - 86 John Rayner - STOCKPORT - 79 Henry Cook - TRAFFORD - 77 Craig Higson - WIGAN - 77 Jimmy Meadows - WIGAN - 76 Simon Johnson - BURY - 75 Geoff Hargreaves - WIGAN -73 Karen Foulkes - TAMESIDE - 58 Steve Atkins - ROCHDALE - 55 Rachael Hill - TAMESIDE - 51 Phil Owen - MANCHESTER - 49
I think round-up is accurate but please correct me if I have outdone anyone a species, or ten?! Just Salford and Oldham remain unrepresented for now but i'ts never too late to add up your total and put it up on here just for interest.
With spring here there's hardly a better time to get out and see lots of new species in the boroughs as some of our summer migrants begin to return by the month's end. Thanks. Henry.
-- Edited by Henry Cook on Monday 1st of March 2010 10:55:45 PM
Craig Higson said
Fri Feb 5 10:26 PM, 2010
I 'll have a go at keeping up with the fervent county/day/year listing types, although as a non-listing type and definite non twitching type I might struggle slightly to keep up with the pace. I reckon I'm on about 65 - 66 or so at the moment, which isnt bad saying I havent yet ventured out in anger.
I cant promise not to loose the will to live..I mean continue all year, but please Ian, dont make me tell you where I've seen everything ...it was at virridor guv. honest.
Henry Cook said
Thu Feb 4 8:43 AM, 2010
Is that saying you are going to keep a Trafford yearlist Paul? Go for it!
Paul Heaton said
Thu Feb 4 8:08 AM, 2010
Time to get the old notebooks out, I am sure many of the days gone by were spent in Trafford, was going for a Mersey valley list this year, but will now look more at the boundaries.
Have fun Keep Birding
Geoff Hargreaves said
Wed Feb 3 10:39 PM, 2010
Well then,gloves off it seems,I,ve adopted Trafford borough and I might not go to Bolton very often but i,ll keep a list ,feral pigeons should be counted on all lists(if you see one that is).Altrincham has a healthy population of white doves where do they fit in?
cheers geoff
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Feb 3 7:23 PM, 2010
All species should be seen IN the borough they are being claimed for.
Acceptable species follow the guidelines used for all list on the Manchester Birding website.
I suggest anyone not fully aware of where the boundary for their borough lies should invest a few quid in the Greater Manchester birders bible. The Manchester A to Z. It not only obviously gives you all the site maps etc but the county borough boundaries are clearly marked on there too.
Note, Rochdale birders can't count White Holme
For the purposes of lists on the website a full list of species seen (with atleast those other than the common ones also giving the location and date) should be submitted at the end of the year so it can be published for all to see (probably, unless it involved too much typing for me).
I also welcome a short monthly 'diary'(submitted after each month, no deadline though ) from any borough year listers to be included on a new page on the website. Anyone interested (and there are more than a few agreed to do one) or requiring more details of what it involves (not much!) should contact me by email.
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Wednesday 3rd of February 2010 07:36:06 PM
Ian Woosey said
Wed Feb 3 6:59 PM, 2010
This is a great response from everybody - have you also thought about adding up your Borough Life Lists and submitting it to Ian for the Website ? Look in the "Listing and Listers" section.....
Keep Local
-- Edited by Ian Woosey on Wednesday 3rd of February 2010 07:01:55 PM
Nick Hilton said
Wed Feb 3 6:34 PM, 2010
Now are the rules the bird has to be within the boundaries or just seen from within the boundaries ???????
Henry
My Trafford list stands at 126, excludes Feral Pigeons and Greylags (which are always dodgy) but could be 127 depending on where I scoped the Ferruginous Duck from, when it used to frequent Chorlton Water Park.
Watch those boundaries !!!!!!!
Steve Atkins said
Wed Feb 3 6:10 PM, 2010
OK I will get the ball rolling as far as Rochdale is concerned, as the Tournament trophy currently resides in this borough with every single point awarded for birds seen in Rochdale. My total stands at a staggering 55 species Don't laugh, we go for quality rather than quantity in Rochdale! Anyway, we have a massive handicap at present in our upland district, with the harsh weather having driven all the birds to warm, sunny locations such as Wigan. I'm sure there are a few other Rochdale birders out there who will want to join in, even though some amongst prefer to spend all their time birding outside of Rochdale. I can't think why If anyone is unsure of which borough a site is in, drop me a pm. The all knowing GM database will have the answer!
Steve
Rachael Hill said
Tue Feb 2 10:10 PM, 2010
Karen Foulkes wrote:
I'm happy to go for it and try to see what I can get without the benefit of an Audenshaw permit.
-- Edited by Karen Foulkes on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 08:12:19 PM
That's why I was thinking Paul for Audenshaw Res Maybe if we get really desperate we could talk him into a visit just for the Borough's sake!! & the black redstart was definitely Tameside's (forgetting the Manchester one!!). I know, clutching at straws, we're not exactly known for our flashes.... Rae
Karen Foulkes said
Tue Feb 2 8:11 PM, 2010
Rachael Hill wrote:
Rob Thorpe wrote:
That's great stuff Henry! That just leaves: OLDHAM ROCHDALE SALFORD STOCKPORT TAMESIDE & MANCHESTER (didn't know there was such a borough) The above boroughs should all be ashamed of themselves
RE Tameside Ha Ha, I'm happy if I get over 100 full stop! I think Karen sees quite a good range and what about our Paul Hammond?! I can't wait until I've finished my degree in May and may be get my life back!! Where does Audenshaw reservoirs fit in on boundaries? Got to be a Tameside council area!!! Rae
My total's embarrassingly measly at the moment but haven't done much birding in the Borough. (snow, work and weekends away and too much OOC birding).
I'm happy to go for it and try to see what I can get without the benefit of an Audenshaw permit.
Don't think I quite got the hang of the quotes there, oops!
-- Edited by Karen Foulkes on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 08:12:19 PM
John Rayner said
Tue Feb 2 5:14 PM, 2010
What does Borough listing get you? It gets you a good soaking in pouring rain
But also, this afternoon, my first ever Barn Owl sighting in the Greater Manchester side of my recording area SJ98 . Sorry I can't be more specific about the exact location, it's both private and sensitive. I'll be submitting the record of course.
Also saw a bedraggled pheasant.
Cheers, John
Rachael Hill said
Tue Feb 2 4:35 PM, 2010
Just done my count for Tameside & hit 33 My problem is we like going for walks around stockport/etherow. What are the boundaries for Tameside we kinda merge with Manchester?.... where does Haughton Dale count (Haughton Green)? Anyway, I'll keep a tally BUT I hope someone else from Tameside will step up to the challenge Rae
Matt Potter said
Tue Feb 2 3:13 PM, 2010
Rob Thorpe wrote:
That's great stuff Henry! That just leaves: OLDHAM ROCHDALE SALFORD STOCKPORT TAMESIDE & MANCHESTER (didn't know there was such a borough) The above boroughs should all be ashamed of themselves
Go on then, I will keep tabs on an Oldham list, probably with the help of Riggers and Chorley!
I wll tot up numbers for me so far, but I know it wont be very high at the moment, roll on light nights etc!
-- Edited by Matt Potter on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 03:14:12 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Feb 2 2:57 PM, 2010
Audenshaw Reservoirs are indeed in the borough of Tameside.
Rachael Hill said
Tue Feb 2 2:42 PM, 2010
Rob Thorpe wrote:
That's great stuff Henry! That just leaves: OLDHAM ROCHDALE SALFORD STOCKPORT TAMESIDE & MANCHESTER (didn't know there was such a borough) The above boroughs should all be ashamed of themselves
RE Tameside Ha Ha, I'm happy if I get over 100 full stop! I think Karen sees quite a good range and what about our Paul Hammond?! I can't wait until I've finished my degree in May and may be get my life back!! Where does Audenshaw reservoirs fit in on boundaries? Got to be a Tameside council area!!! Rae
John Rayner said
Tue Feb 2 12:36 PM, 2010
Rob Thorpe wrote:
That's great stuff Henry! That just leaves: OLDHAM ROCHDALE SALFORD STOCKPORT TAMESIDE & MANCHESTER (didn't know there was such a borough) The above boroughs should all be ashamed of themselves
Go On then Rob,
I'll keep a casual tab on what I see in Stockport Borough. Lack of wader habitat and any decent body of water is a handicap though. I think 100 would be a very respectable target.
Cheers, John
Simon Warford said
Tue Feb 2 12:13 PM, 2010
Aye, know your boundaries
And its Quality not Quantity that matters..
Dave, interesting benchmark that 152 im aiming for 145 as its only a casual attempt for me.
-- Edited by Simon Warford on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 12:22:50 PM
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Feb 2 11:51 AM, 2010
Just following on from a comment Henry made, the actual initial point of the borough year list is not to compete with the other boroughs. Obviously it may very well go on, but the point it to see how well your particular borough fares. To set a target for future years and attempts and hopefully to increase your own local birding and discover some good birds along the way.
So don't be put off by the 'I'll never compete with Wigan borough so what's the point' attitude, as the first month has already proved it's worth in other boroughs . It's only as intense as you make it.
But watch those boundaries though. I'll be putting completed lists on the website along with all the species locations so no cheating
David Winnard said
Tue Feb 2 11:06 AM, 2010
I know the Rochdale birders had a great year in 2006 when we all did a Rochdale year list. In 2006 i was on a year out so was able to give it a real go. 152 was my final score and included Hawfinch, Little Gull (difficult bird in Rochdale), Shag, Red Kite and a few other bits and pieces. It was fun, but would'nt do it again in a hurry
Best of Luck to everyone!
Dave
Rob Thorpe said
Tue Feb 2 10:50 AM, 2010
That's great stuff Henry! That just leaves: OLDHAM ROCHDALE SALFORD STOCKPORT TAMESIDE & MANCHESTER (didn't know there was such a borough) The above boroughs should all be ashamed of themselves
Matt Potter said
Tue Feb 2 10:31 AM, 2010
I was going to suggest Oldham, but I dont think I will have the time to get any sort of decent list!
-- Edited by Matt Potter on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 10:47:22 AM
Henry Cook said
Tue Feb 2 10:23 AM, 2010
Count me in for Trafford Borough. Doubt i'll be much competition for the Wigan big listers but wil be interesting to see what Trafford has to offer. I've seen 61 species in the Borough so far this year. Thanks. Henry,
Rob Thorpe said
Mon Feb 1 11:17 PM, 2010
Nice one Si I've added you to the "update" below, hope you don't mind...
Simon Johnson said
Mon Feb 1 10:30 PM, 2010
Hadn't been doing a borough list until this yesterday when had count up! I'll do a Bury Borough list - just to see how it fits in wi all the others!
Bury Borough list 2010 so far - 59! gonna have to get out a bit more!
Si
Rob Thorpe said
Mon Feb 1 10:01 PM, 2010
Go for it Geoff! One can never have too many lists, "million lists" Woosey is testament to that! It's just a shame that no other boroughs are represented... Come on Stockport, come on Bury, where's ya lists?!
Geoff Hargreaves said
Mon Feb 1 9:48 PM, 2010
Rob ,very nice link to your list,works a treat,I was pondering the ethics of keeping two borough lists cos i,ve got a cracker to start my bolton list.It would be nice to walk the borough line and bird each side of it.
cheers geoff
JOHN TYMON said
Mon Feb 1 1:13 PM, 2010
Rob Thorpe wrote:
The 2010 Borough Year List Challenge: Update 1 of 12 JANUARY
So it's the end of the first month, six "competitors" representing just two boroughs so far, and here's how they stand: Rob Thorpe - WIGAN - 91 Dave Broome - WIGAN - 83 Simon Warford - BOLTON - 80 Ian Woosey - WIGAN - 80 Geoff Hargreaves - WIGAN -68 Jimmy Meadows - WIGAN - 67
is anybody else keeping a borough year list? And if not then why not? If you are then let us know, don't borough list in silence! Mr Warford has already shown the potential rewards for any would be year-lister, so get out there and... Start birding!
JOHN TYMON WROTE sorry but this year im on the can't be bothered keeping any lists list
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Monday 1st of February 2010 01:14:47 PM
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Monday 1st of February 2010 01:15:47 PM
Rob Thorpe said
Mon Feb 1 11:15 AM, 2010
The 2010 Borough Year List Challenge: Update 1 of 12 JANUARY
So it's the end of the first month, eight "competitors" representing four boroughs so far, and here's how they stand: Rob Thorpe - WIGAN - 91 Dave Broome - WIGAN - 83 Simon Warford - BOLTON - 80 Ian Woosey - WIGAN - 80 Geoff Hargreaves - WIGAN -68 Jimmy Meadows - WIGAN - 67 Henry Cook - TRAFFORD - 61 Simon Johnson - BURY - 59
is anybody else keeping a borough year list? And if not then why not? If you are then let us know, don't borough list in silence! Mr Warford has already shown the potential rewards for any would be year-lister, so get out there and...
Start birding!
-- Edited by Rob Thorpe on Monday 1st of February 2010 11:15:02 PM
-- Edited by Rob Thorpe on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 10:33:46 AM
Ian Woosey said
Sun Jan 24 9:20 PM, 2010
Upon further research, it transpires that there were two auxiliary armies involved in this epic battle; on the side of the Boltonians were a strange tribe with incomprehensible accents armed with black-puddings, whilst stood shoulder to shoulder with the Wiganers were a crazy band of men bearing pons of lobbies. Recent archaeological evidence suggests that this latter army rode into battle mounted on pit ponies and wearing hard-hats. Contemporary chroniclers referred to them simply as "degenerates".......
History is indeed an interesting and useful tool in helping us to understand modern day borough rivalries.......
Ian Woosey said
Sun Jan 24 8:06 PM, 2010
Geoff Hargreaves wrote:
and if push comes to shove in december the ancient battle of borsdane wood may be the decider.
As legend has it, in ye olden days, two massed armies faced each other on either side of the Borsdane Brook; one army was armed with out-of-date prater pies, and the other with festering pigs trotters - it was a sight to behold, but many men perished that day with food poisoning..........let us pray it does not come down to that again.. Mr Warford, check your boundries, and keep out of Lancashire.
Simon Warford said
Sun Jan 24 6:56 PM, 2010
Its been very hard work so far indeed, I need gee-ing up already! If nothing else it will prove how Wigan has by far superior habitats Confounded by the fact that most of the best waters in Bolton (Rivington, Wayoh & Belmont) are all classed as Lancs/Blackburn, whats that all about
Rob Thorpe said
Sun Jan 24 5:48 PM, 2010
Geoff, you forgot Mr Broome (aka "Tufty"). Also, Warfy is doing a Bolton Borough year list... but no other boroughs seem to be represented as yet.
Geoff Hargreaves said
Sun Jan 24 3:22 PM, 2010
We wigganers are having a little contest this year to improve our borough list and add a little colour and interest to the year.It,s open to anyone and free to enter, the winner gets the '2010 golden pie' to keep forever.Lists should follow the 'rules' from the web site.Currently myself mr thorpe,woosey,meadows are the declared runners.It was suggested that we form the Wigan Borough 200 club,but I notice that it already exists and has 3 fully paid up members so it,ll have to be the sub 200 club for now,other borough birders are to be encouraged to help us out as and when possible,and if push comes to shove in december the ancient battle of borsdane wood may be the decider.
just for fun geoff
Just a little add on to the lists
Charlie Owen-top bloke ,top birder,top leyther had 88 species in 2 days sat and sunday just gone within 5 miles of Leigh town centre-which is a beltin number at this time of year.don't know how many he'd have had if he had been seriously doing it since Jan 1st
I will be putting my list together soon! I was waiting until I actually got out locally to make the list worthwhile! I should be able to beat Tameside though no probs!!
Wonder why Rob's so happy
From one end of the competition to the other....Tameside!
Karen has got a few extra than me for Tameside but we are rather enjoying being the underdogs
Rae
Update 2 of 12
February
Thought i'd give the totals a round-up at end of the second month of 2010 already. A big increase to fouteen "competitors" representing 8 of the total of 10 boroughs now:
Rob Thorpe - WIGAN - 98
Dave Broome - WIGAN - 89
Simon Warford - BOLTON - 88
Ian Woosey - WIGAN - 86
John Rayner - STOCKPORT - 79
Henry Cook - TRAFFORD - 77
Craig Higson - WIGAN - 77
Jimmy Meadows - WIGAN - 76
Simon Johnson - BURY - 75
Geoff Hargreaves - WIGAN -73
Karen Foulkes - TAMESIDE - 58
Steve Atkins - ROCHDALE - 55
Rachael Hill - TAMESIDE - 51
Phil Owen - MANCHESTER - 49
I think round-up is accurate but please correct me if I have outdone anyone a species, or ten?! Just Salford and Oldham remain unrepresented for now but i'ts never too late to add up your total and put it up on here just for interest.
With spring here there's hardly a better time to get out and see lots of new species in the boroughs as some of our summer migrants begin to return by the month's end.
Thanks. Henry.
-- Edited by Henry Cook on Monday 1st of March 2010 10:55:45 PM
I cant promise not to loose the will to live..I mean continue all year, but please Ian, dont make me tell you where I've seen everything ...it was at virridor guv. honest.
Have fun Keep Birding
very often but i,ll keep a list
cheers geoff
Acceptable species follow the guidelines used for all list on the Manchester Birding website.
I suggest anyone not fully aware of where the boundary for their borough lies should invest a few quid in the Greater Manchester birders bible. The Manchester A to Z. It not only obviously gives you all the site maps etc but the county borough boundaries are clearly marked on there too.
Note, Rochdale birders can't count White Holme
For the purposes of lists on the website a full list of species seen (with atleast those other than the common ones also giving the location and date) should be submitted at the end of the year so it can be published for all to see (probably, unless it involved too much typing for me
I also welcome a short monthly 'diary'(submitted after each month, no deadline though
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Wednesday 3rd of February 2010 07:36:06 PM
Keep Local
-- Edited by Ian Woosey on Wednesday 3rd of February 2010 07:01:55 PM
Henry
My Trafford list stands at 126, excludes Feral Pigeons and Greylags (which are always dodgy) but could be 127 depending on where I scoped the Ferruginous Duck from, when it used to frequent Chorlton Water Park.
Watch those boundaries !!!!!!!
My total stands at a staggering 55 species
I'm sure there are a few other Rochdale birders out there who will want to join in, even though some amongst prefer to spend all their time birding outside of Rochdale. I can't think why
If anyone is unsure of which borough a site is in, drop me a pm. The all knowing GM database will have the answer!
Steve
That's why I was thinking Paul for Audenshaw Res
I know, clutching at straws, we're not exactly known for our flashes....
Rae
My total's embarrassingly measly at the moment but haven't done much birding in the Borough.
I'm happy to go for it and try to see what I can get without the benefit of an Audenshaw permit.
Don't think I quite got the hang of the quotes there, oops!
-- Edited by Karen Foulkes on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 08:12:19 PM
But also, this afternoon, my first ever Barn Owl sighting in the Greater Manchester side of my recording area SJ98
Also saw a bedraggled pheasant.
Cheers, John
My problem is we like going for walks around stockport/etherow.
Anyway, I'll keep a tally BUT I hope someone else from Tameside will step up to the challenge
Rae
Go on then, I will keep tabs on an Oldham list, probably with the help of Riggers and Chorley!
I wll tot up numbers for me so far, but I know it wont be very high at the moment, roll on light nights etc!
-- Edited by Matt Potter on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 03:14:12 PM
RE Tameside
Ha Ha, I'm happy if I get over 100 full stop! I think Karen sees quite a good range and what about our Paul Hammond?! I can't wait until I've finished my degree in May and may be get my life back!!
Where does Audenshaw reservoirs fit in on boundaries? Got to be a Tameside council area!!!
Rae
Go On then Rob,
I'll keep a casual tab on what I see in Stockport Borough. Lack of wader habitat and any decent body of water is a handicap though. I think 100 would be a very respectable target.
Cheers, John
And its Quality not Quantity that matters..
Dave, interesting benchmark that 152 im aiming for 145 as its only a casual attempt for me.
-- Edited by Simon Warford on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 12:22:50 PM
So don't be put off by the 'I'll never compete with Wigan borough so what's the point' attitude, as the first month has already proved it's worth in other boroughs
But watch those boundaries though. I'll be putting completed lists on the website along with all the species locations so no cheating
Best of Luck to everyone!
Dave
That just leaves:
OLDHAM
ROCHDALE
SALFORD
STOCKPORT
TAMESIDE
& MANCHESTER (didn't know there was such a borough)
The above boroughs should all be ashamed of themselves
-- Edited by Matt Potter on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 10:47:22 AM
I've seen 61 species in the Borough so far this year.
Thanks. Henry,
I've added you to the "update" below, hope you don't mind...
Bury Borough list 2010 so far - 59! gonna have to get out a bit more!
Si
cheers geoff
-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Monday 1st of February 2010 01:15:47 PM
Update 1 of 12
JANUARY
So it's the end of the first month, eight "competitors" representing four boroughs so far, and here's how they stand:
Rob Thorpe - WIGAN - 91
Dave Broome - WIGAN - 83
Simon Warford - BOLTON - 80
Ian Woosey - WIGAN - 80
Geoff Hargreaves - WIGAN -68
Jimmy Meadows - WIGAN - 67
Henry Cook - TRAFFORD - 61
Simon Johnson - BURY - 59
is anybody else keeping a borough year list? And if not then why not? If you are then let us know, don't borough list in silence!
Mr Warford has already shown the potential rewards for any would be year-lister, so get out there and...
Start birding!
-- Edited by Rob Thorpe on Monday 1st of February 2010 11:15:02 PM
-- Edited by Rob Thorpe on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 10:33:46 AM
History is indeed an interesting and useful tool in helping us to understand modern day borough rivalries.......
As legend has it, in ye olden days, two massed armies faced each other on either side of the Borsdane Brook; one army was armed with out-of-date prater pies, and the other with festering pigs trotters - it was a sight to behold, but many men perished that day with food poisoning..........let us pray it does not come down to that again..
Mr Warford, check your boundries, and keep out of Lancashire.
If nothing else it will prove how Wigan has by far superior habitats
Confounded by the fact that most of the best waters in Bolton (Rivington, Wayoh & Belmont) are all classed as Lancs/Blackburn, whats that all about