Look forward to it

Hardback/softback? Makes no odds really as it should never be taken out into the field It is there to be absorbed each and every night with many a cup of tea whereupon your next encounter with a difficult species it can be recollected and regurgitated or if not field notes made and then cross referenced with the book which should be keep in the car at best

After to-ing and fro-ing I decided to order one based on Ians review and some other reviews ont tinternet. My only misgiving is that this is a hardcover Hopefully the paperback will be out soon.

I'll let you know if I agree Ian

Paul Heaton wrote:

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For a birder who is not big on books, Mr Mckerchar has given us an excellent review on the new Collins 2nd Edition.

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I think I've been misrepresented there Paul . My bookshelves are packed with books but they are pretty much all identification based or relating to countries abroad that I have visited. Either way, a book lover such as yourself would be horrified by the treatment they receive in my hands as I'm a believer that they're there to be used and abused so that includes flattening the pages, scribbling in them, underlining stuff etc. A friend of mine once lent me his prized set of old county reports for research purposes and I was only allowed to peep inside the pages by opening them an inch or so! I love reading books, but I much prefer getting out in the field and utilising the information I glean from them

Paul Heaton wrote:

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Sorry steve delay from the printers on this book, its on order and as soon as I have it will let you know perhaps Ian will do another stunning review

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"delay from the printers" - absolutely typical

Cheers, Steve

Paul,

have you got the new New Naturalist "Books & Naturalists" yet? I'd be interested in your opinion before forking out all that dosh

Steve

For a birder who is not big on books, Mr Mckerchar has given us an excellent review on the new Collins 2nd Edition.

A perfect review top marks my man, however your old copy is also outstanding and deserves a place in the 200 club library, I wonder how long it will take to bring your new copy up to standard.

Well done that man.

Thats nice simon, now don't forget to put it to good use and find a biggy for Gm in the spring.

Found a copy of Where to watch birds in the North West, today for £2.99( Oxfam books) just need to get Judith to autograph it now

Keep Birding

Got my copy this morning it's brill

Yeah, I will start taking notes I just used to do it for fun.
I guess theres a lot scientific data to be had by logging birds in a particular area.
D'oh should of read the post above before I asked my question about the Collins.

Simon my post before yours says it all, as it refers to the new edition, and like Ian says, its the best around, but don't forget to take notes.

Feel free to PM me on the book subject I bore you to hell on it


Keep taking notes when birding

Though I don't have it myself, Collins is THE fieldguide to the Western Pal. The more you dig into it's pages the more you realise just how much up-to-date information there is in there. Sure there are areas that could be improved upon (3rd edition perhaps?) but no other field guide comes close, period! You just have to remember that field guides such as Collins are restricted in the amount of information they can provide per species and as such will always have to compromise somewhere.

P.s. Don't take it into the field with you, take a notebook instead it's much more fun

Does anyone have the new Collins 2nd edition yet opinions ? I'm think about getting it is very cheap on amazon now for the HB.

-- Edited by Simon Gregory on Tuesday 9th of February 2010 11:48:28 AM

-- Edited by Simon Gregory on Tuesday 9th of February 2010 12:03:11 PM

Due to the problems with the first edition in 1999, I have held back obtaining my copy of Collins till today. So first thoughts, very subtle changes, American plates vastly improved, in fact all plates seem at first to be better, till you compare it with the first edition, then you realise that the plates in both books are top quality.

This is the birders bible and should be on all birders shelves.

It comes with extra pages but still feels like a field guide, only an extra 100grams, so not that much different in the field.

I do wonder why the topography page was missed out, and I miss the red stripe on the cover, however the slight raised Arctic tern on the dust jacket is nice.

Still one or two minor mistakes but if you cannot find them don't worry,update your shelves have both copies, its a birders book, and looking forward to the large format copy if they do one.

Just check out page 256 what a bird

Keep birding.

-- Edited by Paul Heaton on Saturday 30th of January 2010 08:56:23 PM

Now we need more of an input then I have ordered my book or I have received my book, come on

Are you pleased with your purchase, is it better than the last edition, do you like the lay-out, is the information updated. What about the American warblers...plates better than before or not.

Keep Birding

Not a problem at Amazon now. Ordered Monday and just arived.

Sounds like Amazon are dragging their feet with this, mine was ordered last week from WHSmith and it arrived yesterday

How much are they at RSPB reserves?

WHSmith's sell 'em at £15.

Thanks to the tip off from Helen Jones (see below on thread) I just got my hardback copy ordered first class post from Amazon with their credit card offer for the net cost of 75p!!

Well worth putting up with the irritating MBNA issuing card company sales person trying to flog you loads of services you don't want or need.

JOHN TYMON wrote:

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Matt Potter wrote:

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Robert Adderley wrote:

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Hi Nik

I bought my copy on 28th Dec from Old Moor, I believe other RSPB Reserves also have the book on sale early.

Rob

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We saw it at Leighton Moss too. The RSPB has a load on sale. We picked it up and had a feel of the bible!

We nearly bought it, but Mrs P has it on order from amazon! Its cheaper at amazon too!! haha!

-- Edited by Matt Potter on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 01:38:00 PM

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is it worth buying?is there a lot more in it than the earlier version,which i already have

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first impression for me after it arrived today,id say a little bit dissapointing,i expected many more new ,more indepth say of the gulls section,and apart from caspion which seems well covered,the others don't seem much different,yellow legged ,id have expected more than a few small illustraions,i would have thought a full page for them beggers,10 years is a long time in birding education,and i was a little dissapointed,but saying that its still by far the best field guide.

After waiting since ordering on Amazon in Aug 2008 I finally received my new collins bird guide this morning through the letterbox! Another cracking edition from my first impressions and I know this one will also go with me everywhere I go for the next 10 years or so too!

Amazon.co.uk has a good offer on at the moment - if you take out their credit card they will immediately credit it with £15.

I applied online, bought £15 of birding books (which cost me nothing) and then when the card arrived cut it up! Cheapest books I've ever bought

Matt Potter wrote:

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Robert Adderley wrote:

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Hi Nik

I bought my copy on 28th Dec from Old Moor, I believe other RSPB Reserves also have the book on sale early.

Rob

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We saw it at Leighton Moss too. The RSPB has a load on sale. We picked it up and had a feel of the bible!

We nearly bought it, but Mrs P has it on order from amazon! Its cheaper at amazon too!! haha!

-- Edited by Matt Potter on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 01:38:00 PM

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is it worth buying?is there a lot more in it than the earlier version,which i already have

Robert Adderley wrote:

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Hi Nik

I bought my copy on 28th Dec from Old Moor, I believe other RSPB Reserves also have the book on sale early.

Rob

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We saw it at Leighton Moss too. The RSPB has a load on sale. We picked it up and had a feel of the bible!

We nearly bought it, but Mrs P has it on order from amazon! Its cheaper at amazon too!! haha!

-- Edited by Matt Potter on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 01:38:00 PM

Hi Nik

I bought my copy on 28th Dec from Old Moor, I believe other RSPB Reserves also have the book on sale early.

Rob

Robert Adderley wrote:

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Collins 2nd edition on sale at Old Moor RSPB Reserve today.

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Hi Rob,

I thought the hardback had a publication date of 7th January?

Regards,
Nik

Thanks very much Paul.
Must admit although it's not the first time I've had photographs published, I'm pretty chuffed with this one.
I too, like yourself remember the books fondly from childhood and I hope it will encourage future birders.

Anthony

Anthony, you should be proud of that, the I-Spy book was the one that started me off and now I am looking at a bookcase with 175 books on it, it amazing where this hobby takes you.

Will look out for a new copy with your photos.

keep birding

May I shamelessly plug 'I-Spy Birds' published by Michelin.
At a very modest £2.50 it's aimed at children under 10 as a way of teaching them about birds in a fun way.
Available at Amazon, Waterstones, WHSmith and all good bookstores.

Oh, did I mention it contains several photographs by yours truly?

Anthony

and Conwy RSPB - they've got stacks of them!

Collins 2nd edition on sale at Old Moor RSPB Reserve today.

Excellent addition to the thread Sean,FORSMAN is indeed an excellent book, but just like the GULLS book the first printing was a mess.

Collins new 2nd Edition is now available from Wildsound.

Keep Birding

I read most of the blogs on the Cheshire Atlas and future Manchester Atlas with interest. I agree that the Cheshire Atlas may look a little crude when compared with other atlas's with its brightly coloured spots on squares etc. But it held important information that was placed into a wonderful book overall and I aplaud that. Although I've lived up in North Manchester for about 10 years I am a Chester lad born and bred and I grew up with the original Atlas. Any comments on recent atlas work should be put in perspective, as the Cheshire Atlas still compares well as one of the best County Atlas works in the UK and as such, will shine on a world scale, as we are the best at producing these things afterall!?

I must admit though that I was surprised that no mention of the 'Manx Bird Atlas' Sharpe et al (2007) was brought up in the blogs. I purchased this atlas last year for a bargain £30 online (as the usual price is £60!). It is similar in structure and layout to previous BTO UK and Ireland Breeding Atlas books, but has taken a new approach to the maps, which has a topographical style which allows you to see the landscape of the areas where birds are found, ie hills, flat plains etc. It also has line-style pictures rather than photos which I like and the overall information within the background and introduction sections and main species accounts is excellent. I have still not managed to get over to the Isle of Man, but hope to in 2010 and with the information within this book I think I have a head start on the island and think the hard work put in to this publication was well worth it.

Before anyone cries about funding etc, I know they got lots of money and even paid people to complete surveys, which is unheard of for any other regional atlas project, but it is simply a classy book and one I read with interest everytime I pick it up. It for me is the benchmark that any County or regional atlas should be compared to.

PS. Any people reflecting the large size of Atlas's must question why they have them, they are not field guides and so the bigger the better, as it allows clearer viewing of maps and means text does not have to be shortened or clipped to fit to smaller sizes. As with most birders, I have a seperate shelf for these big ones, that go along side other great titles such as the Migration Atlas, some of the Handbook of the Birds of World volumes, old BTO atlas's, helm guides and various avifauna publications from the UK and across world.

Bring on the GM Bird Atlas!?

I pick up books most months, but don't generally place comments on the forum, but felt I should for one I purchased a month or two back that I have been enjoying since. It is 'Raptors - A Field Guide For Surveys and Monitoring', Hardey et al, Second Edition (Sept 09). As a surveyor it is essential to keep up to date with methods and techniques for particular species of raptors that may be present in areas I am surveying or form the main reason I am surveying a particular location. As with many publications, it was 4 months late off the press, but well worth the wait.

It has updated all species accounts including new sections on feather identification, taken from another excellent book (Feathers: identification for bird conservation - Ciesak & Dul, 2006), which I bought earlier in the year. The guide covers the status of each species and also incorporates new research papers and photos that bring it bang up to date for any avid raptor enthusiast or surveyer. It includes al the Owl species and also has a section on chick development, that offers an insight into the nesting birds and chicks that most people do not have a chance to see first hand. It ends with an up to date set of tables for each species covering Britain and Ireland, outlining trends and current population estimates.

As with the first edition it also comes with a cracking CD of raptor calls, which has been updated and is a good listen on long drives to sites!?

Coupled with the excellent 'The Raptors of Europe and the Middle East' - Dick Forsman (2007), you have a great combination to identify and survey all UK raptors and possible foriegn visitors.

Nik Grounds wrote:

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Collins Bird Guide: Birds of Britain and Europe 2nd edition Hardback now showing on WHSmiths website as being released on 26/11/09 £16.25. Paperback 07/01/10 £11.69.

Wait and see I suppose.

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Thanks for this info Nick.

Just ordered one from WH Smiths. Still £16.25 for the hardback version, which is a whacking 35% discount off the suggested price of £25. Free delivery as well, or you can have it sent to a WHS branch of your choice.

The proposed publication date is now 7th Jan (was that a pig that just went over?)

Cheers, John

Next up for me, although not strictly a book unless I print it all out, is British Birds Interactive then the 2nd edition Collins Birds guide. I'm especially interested in how it will treat these made up herring gull species

Ian.

Bush Warblers ,Kennerley & Pearson due out April 2010, priced at £60...

A/C Blacks are offering it at £45 if you pre-order.


Keep birding

Very happy to read the comments about the Cheshire Atlas, so that I get an idea of what's coming. However it has made me change my Christmas present strategy. I'll have to ask the son who's not getting me the book to buy my wife and I a much stronger coffee table for Christmas. And my wife will have to present me with a gym membership, after all I'd like to be able to lift the book. And if the book is really that big, the son who is getting me the book will start complaining about the amount of wrapping paper it takes to cover it!

Seriously though, I'd like to thank Steve for bringing this offer to our attention. I'll have cause to remember the origins of one 'Christmas' present this year.

Big is beautiful! Even though I am a wearer of glasses - I would still like to think that my eyesight is somewhat better than Mr Magoo's!... but, how often have you looked at tiny breeding distribution maps in past atlases and been totally unable to differentiate the three different sized dots that are supposed to represent confirmed, probable and possible breeding! Some atlases have maps that quite frankly are almost worthless - if they are unintelligible, then really what is the point of having them? The Cheshire's atlas maps scores highly on clarity. Another excellent feature of the Cheshire atlas are the maps showing gains and losses between the current and the last atlas - a simple but brilliant (and colourful!) presentation of data by the use of three colour codes.

I do agree that any book should be (in part!) judged on its content. However, in my opinion content alone is just not enough.....it is very important that facts, figures and data are presented in a readable, understandable and interesting manner. Many bird books flounder on these criteria, even though they may be totally spot on with content. The Cheshire atlas has succeeded where others have struggled or failed.

Oh and last but no means least, another first-rate feature....the excellent watercolours by Ray Scally.

Keep atlasing!

Bill.

Re: Cheshire atlas, I think it was designed to be the same size as the BTO breeding/winter and migration atlases

Sounds like value for money to me then

Books to me though Paul are there for one reason only. Reading. Therefore I break the spines over my knee so I can get the pages to lie flat, I write notes and additional info that might have been missed directly onto the pages. My own Collins guide is unrecognisable, acutally bursting with stapled in identification notes and covered in scribbles of further features. Similarly my monthly publications (Birding World, BB and Dutch Birding) get torn to bits and decent features stapled together and placed in a respective file.

I have a friend (it is Andy Makin in fact ) who atleast used to remove the dust jackets off his books so he didn't damage them! And another who wouldn't let me open the pages of his county reports I was using for reference beyond a couple of inches incase it damaged the spine (while I'm telling on everyone it was Woosey ). What's that all about I have lots of books Paul, but only the ones I really need though I have to admit to buying 'a field guide to the nests, eggs and nestlings of British and European Birds' (superb information on incubation times, brood numbers etc) and Jonsson's Birds of lake, river, marsh and field from a charity book shop in Lancaster last week as they were both £2.50. Don't know what I'll do with the Jonsson though, probably a beautifully illustrated coffee cup coaster on my desk

A quart inch bigger than Birds Britannica and an extra hundred pages.

As for Collins A4 mega tome, its rather fun to carry around at a twitch.

Love the Ian McKerchars devils advocate, you couldn,t care less about books, your collins is one on its own.

Keep Birding

I confess (unashamedly) to not having seen the Cheshire Atlas but am surprised that comments about it's size seem to be so prevelant. As it's not the sort of book which to take out into the field I'd have thought the bigger the better? Standing out as an oddment on your bookself Paul, is this how we measure the thing Those who have the Collins field guide may also have the larger edition which much more suitably displays the beautiful artwork an enables clearer viewing of the maps and reading of the text, so often and certainly in some circumstances, bigger is better (and increased value for money?). I've never heard complaints about the size of images before either, surely if they're of a excellent quaility (as I assume these will have been) then the bigger the more beautiful? Personally, as the sort of book which would for me be used on the desk for research etc (and not on the knee as it sounds like it might cut your circulation off!) I'd rather it was big. The I might not have to put my readers on.

With all that said however, just how big is the blighter? Are we talking Collins larger edition, BWP, Birds Britannica?

MR Barber nice to hear from you, yes without a doubt the content and work put into it, is outstanding, and all involved should be proud to have produced a piece of history.

Its just a shame, that on the shelf it stands out as an oddment compare to the other ones.


Keep Birding.

As a minor member of the production team I've been interested to read the various comments on the 'Birds in Cheshire and Wirral' posted here. My own view is that over time the value of the book will be judged primarily on its content.

Judith is correct to say that there has been substantial financial support from the Heritage Lottery Fund. This support however is not just for the book. Under the terms of the grant CAWOS is currently setting up an educational programme with the Cheshire Wildlife Trust.

I completely agree about the size - would make an adequate coffee table itself! I'm sure GM could produce a more bijou version.

Regarding the Birds in Cheshire book, I was wondering why it had to be so big, it would certainly break most coffee table,

Its a very bright colourful tome, but do we need such large photos of teal etc, as for the maps, I thought they were life size

The 1900Coward and Oldham copy feels right, the 1963 T-Hedley Bell with its supplement is the perfect size.

I just feel that the hard slog of recording, etc has been outshone by colour photos and bright colours.

Russell Slacks Rare Birds is a format that is pleasing to the eye and nice to handle.

Keep reading.


ps I am a complete (fill in as you wish) on this subject, so I make no apologise

...but this might be a way of redeeming themselves!

The way Peel Holdings have gone about destryoing plenty of good birding sites Stev would probably rule them out i'd guess!

It seems as though the National Lottery Fund was the main contributor to the Cheshire Atlas but also local councils, United Utilities, Forestry Commission, RSPB etc. In the more highly populated GM there would be plenty of scope for business sponsorship; Peel Holdings would be a strong possibility as they own much of GM!
The coloured page edges were a clear way of distinguishing breeding from winter accounts while keeping breeding and winter information for each species together. There may be more aesthetic ways of achieving this.
Steve

They did get a very substantial grant (in 5 figures I heard) towards its production. Personally I thought the layout with the coloured edges rather garish.