I wrote to the Oriental Bird Club regarding the identification of Spot-billed Duck and the recent birds at Fog Lane Park and Alexandra Park Lake, here is the reply:
"Thank you for contacting OBC with your Spot-billed Duck images. We do not claim to be expert in the identification of this or any other species we are simply enthusiastic volunteers who give our time to run the Club; we have no paid staff. However, we do spend time in the region and have seen the species you mention in the wild, so we pass on our opinions below and apologise if we mention various aspects you already know.
Three Spot-billed Duck races had been recognised in the past, two have now been accepted as full species:
Indian (Western) Spot-billed Duck Anas poecilorhyncha with two taxa recognised, nominate form found across South Asia from the Indus valley in the west to west Assam and harringtoni found from east Assam, Myanmar through South-East Asia to south China.
Chinese (Eastern) Spot-billed Duck A. zonorhyncha which overlaps in range with Indian species in the west of its range which extends east into Far East Russia (including Sakhalin Island) and Mongolia, Korea and Japan.
There are morphological differences between the taxa whilst haringtoni and zonorhyncha have been found breeding sympatrically in China, seeming to be good confirmation of their new status.
This brings us to your birds:
The first bird (Fog Lane Park) looks like Eastern/Chinese Spot-billed, admittedly a rather pale one, but the lack of red at the base of the bill indicates Eastern.
The second bird (Alexandra Park Lake) on the other hand, does have red at the base of the bill and is therefore Indian Spot-billed Duck. There are many Spot-bills in collections and there is no knowing if they are all marked. Hybrids with Mallard do occur and images of them can be found on the internet. The hybrids we have encountered are frequently quite different from either species; it appears unlikely to us that these birds have any Mallard in them. There is quite an interesting set of images taken in Japan of Spot-billed/Mallard hybrids which we suggest you examine (http://birdingkyoto.blogspot.com/2016/12/spot-billed-duck-x-mallard-hybrids.html). We also suggest you look at our 'OrientalBirdImages' website (http://orientalbirdimages.org/).
We hope our comments are of some use and interest to you."
Thanks to the Oriental Bird Club for these comments
The photo is of the recent bird on Alexandra Park Lake, 3rd August 2018
In my opinion the bird on the Alexandra Park Lake is a new bird to the pinioned female Spot-billed Duck that was present on Fog Lane Park Lake (see photo), but could perhaps be a result of the Fog Lane Park bird pairing with a Mallard ?? We really do get some funny ducks floating around the Manchester area!
The drake Spot-billed Duck "type" still present this morning, I spent some time watching, photographing and filming this educational bird! My opinion is that it has some Mallard influence (the head pattern, green sheen to the crown and rufous tones on the breast), it is un-ringed and probably fully-winged (see open wing photo)
I did consider the hybrid possibility due to apparent speculum colour. Chinese Spot-billed Duck (Anas zonorhyncha) has a blue speculum though lacks the red at the bill base etc. Structure is sound for Spotbill. I assume this is the same as the Fog Lane Park bird which apparently also showed a blue speculum.
Steve Suttill said
Thu Aug 2 9:54 AM, 2018
Pete Hines wrote:
/>Indian Spot-billed Duck 1m
Indian Spot-billed Duck/Mallard hydrid?
Pete Hines said
Wed Aug 1 4:42 PM, 2018
Chiffchaff 1+ Great Spotted Woodpecker 1f Nuthatch 2+ Common Gull 1 1st summer Herring Gull 1 1st summer Tufted Duck 3f Indian Spot-billed Duck 1m
Thanks, Rob. Interesting. It wasn't there at 2 today.
Rob Creek said
Mon May 14 11:02 PM, 2018
Hi Copland, I'm certainly no expert but since you've asked for any ideas and for what it's worth...
I think the smallish bill doesn't really look like Snow Goose, or Canada Goose for that matter, the plumage doesn't look like Canada either. In my opinion it seems to more closely resemble the bill of an Emperor Goose, and at a push...the whole head looks Emperor-ish too. The yellow could also be explained by Emperor and look closely at the base of the neck, a beautiful scaly pattern that 'could' be down to Emperor. One last thing, on Google images, type in Emperor Goose hybrid and your first couple of images could provide some help to possible identification with an Emperor x Barnacle Goose hybrid that looks fairly close to yours.
Copland Smith said
Sun May 13 3:08 PM, 2018
Amongst the usual Canada Geese on the lake, there is a ringed hybrid goose, found on Thursday by Tony O'Mahoney. It is there again today. Maybe a Martinmere bird? Possible Snow x Canada, or Snow x Barnacle. The yellow on beak and legs doesn't seem to be on the Snow-Canadas I've looked up. Any ideas welcome.
In the middle of a picturesque but desolate, snowbound Alex Park, 2 pairs of Shoveler are busy circling.
Copland Smith said
Thu Feb 8 11:41 AM, 2018
11am No Shoveler, Merganser or Goosander. The usual Mute Swans, Canada Geese, Mallard, Tufted Duck, Coot, Moorhen. 1 Common Gull spotted amongst the Blackheaded.
2 pairs of Heron. One sitting in the south nest. 2 building in the north nest.
Nuthatches seen and heard. Goldcrests.
Pete Hines said
Tue Feb 6 8:40 PM, 2018
Midday
Shoveler 1 Tufted Duck 40
Copland Smith said
Sun Feb 4 1:05 PM, 2018
Same as Pete yesterday, but without the Shoveler. One Heron on the nest, another below on the island. Goldcrests and Nuthatches very active. Parakeets over.
Dawn today shoveler 2m 1juv m Buzzard over flying north Ringnecked parakeets. 2 flocks (23 & 15 AT LEAST) flew west of south at sunrise. Direction of Southern Cem & Chorlton WP
Copland Smith said
Sun Dec 17 12:21 PM, 2017
pair of Shoveler on lake 10:50 today. still no Mergus
Copland Smith said
Sat Dec 2 10:49 AM, 2017
10:35 Still no sawbills
Pete Hines said
Wed Nov 29 10:18 PM, 2017
09.35
Carrion Crow 47
No sawbills
Copland Smith said
Tue Nov 28 11:13 AM, 2017
10:53 am Alexandra Park "lake"
1 Goosander redhead - flew East at 11:02 No RB Merganser 2 Heron
Copland Smith said
Mon Nov 27 11:50 AM, 2017
Return of the Mergi.
11:40 Redbreasted Merganser 1 Goosander redhead 1
Shannon Llewellyn said
Sun Nov 26 1:04 PM, 2017
No sawbills whilst I was here today from just gone 9 to just before 12, either. What there was:
8+ goldcrest 3 nuthatch 1 grey wagtail 3 song thrush 25+ redwing 11 mistle thrush 5 ring-necked parakeet 6 moorhen 8 coot 7 tufted duck 4 mute swan (3 adults all with blue darvics: 4CUN, 4BUT, 4CLX) 1 grey heron 83+ black-headed gull 2 common gull 1 lesser black-backed gull
12:10 today No Mergus at all! 2 Heron (1 in each bay, steeple-stemmed)
James Walsh said
Fri Nov 24 9:29 PM, 2017
Red-breasted Merganser still present mid-afternoon
-- Edited by James Walsh on Friday 24th of November 2017 09:29:29 PM
PHIL GREENWOOD said
Fri Nov 24 7:32 PM, 2017
Just before 1100 2 male Goosanders came in, flew around the lake, then were lost to sight but they didn't land. Soon after 1 of the Goosander females departed east. The other female Goosander and Red-breasted Merganser remained.
I assume the Merganser is a female with it's bright red bill?
Pete Hines said
Fri Nov 24 10:42 AM, 2017
Red-breasted Merganser 1 Goosander 2 Great Spotted Woodpecker 3 together
Copland Smith said
Thu Nov 23 12:18 PM, 2017
5 Goosander (1 out of water on S bank) 1 Redbreasted Merganser
Red Breasted Merganser showing well at 1 pm. Diving constantly. Came up with a reasonably sized fish, promptly dived bombed by 3 Black Headed Gulls,but managed to swallow it ,thwarting the gulls.
Pete Hines said
Mon Nov 20 9:36 AM, 2017
08.25-09.15
Red-breasted Merganser flew in alone at 09.05 Goosander 3 Cormorant 1 Herring Gull 2 Common Gull 1 Ring-necked Parakeet 62+ Goldcrest 4 Grey Wagtail 2 Redwing - several Goldfinch 16+
Tony Coatsworth said
Sun Nov 19 7:30 PM, 2017
Think everyone went to see the Red-breasted Merganser today !
Red-breasted Merganser 1. It took flight with 7 Goosander at 16.06 but split from the group as the others headed off south-east, circled the lake before heading south-west, back towards Platt Fields.
Goosander 13. First one at 16.02 then 7 at 16.06 flew south-east, presumably to roost at Broad Ees Dole, leaving 5 remaining at 16.20
Ring-necked Parakeet 66 at 16.20
Pete Hines said
Thu Nov 16 8:28 PM, 2017
Red-breasted Merganser 1. It took flight with 7 Goosander at 16.06 but split from the group as the others headed off south-east, circled the lake before heading south-west, back towards Platt Fields.
Goosander 13. First one at 16.02 then 7 at 16.06 flew south-east, presumably to roost at Broad Ees Dole, leaving 5 remaining at 16.20
"Thank you for contacting OBC with your Spot-billed Duck images. We do not claim to be expert in the identification of this or any other species we are simply enthusiastic volunteers who give our time to run the Club; we have no paid staff. However, we do spend time in the region and have seen the species you mention in the wild, so we pass on our opinions below and apologise if we mention various aspects you already know.
Three Spot-billed Duck races had been recognised in the past, two have now been accepted as full species:
Indian (Western) Spot-billed Duck Anas poecilorhyncha with two taxa recognised, nominate form found across South Asia from the Indus valley in the west to west Assam and harringtoni found from east Assam, Myanmar through South-East Asia to south China.
Chinese (Eastern) Spot-billed Duck A. zonorhyncha which overlaps in range with Indian species in the west of its range which extends east into Far East Russia (including Sakhalin Island) and Mongolia, Korea and Japan.
There are morphological differences between the taxa whilst haringtoni and zonorhyncha have been found breeding sympatrically in China, seeming to be good confirmation of their new status.
This brings us to your birds:
The first bird (Fog Lane Park) looks like Eastern/Chinese Spot-billed, admittedly a rather pale one, but the lack of red at the base of the bill indicates Eastern.
The second bird (Alexandra Park Lake) on the other hand, does have red at the base of the bill and is therefore Indian Spot-billed Duck. There are many Spot-bills in collections and there is no knowing if they are all marked. Hybrids with Mallard do occur and images of them can be found on the internet. The hybrids we have encountered are frequently quite different from either species; it appears unlikely to us that these birds have any Mallard in them. There is quite an interesting set of images taken in Japan of Spot-billed/Mallard hybrids which we suggest you examine (http://birdingkyoto.blogspot.com/2016/12/spot-billed-duck-x-mallard-hybrids.html). We also suggest you look at our 'OrientalBirdImages' website (http://orientalbirdimages.org/).
We hope our comments are of some use and interest to you."
Thanks to the Oriental Bird Club for these comments
The photo is of the recent bird on Alexandra Park Lake, 3rd August 2018
I did consider the hybrid possibility due to apparent speculum colour. Chinese Spot-billed Duck (Anas zonorhyncha) has a blue speculum though lacks the red at the bill base etc. Structure is sound for Spotbill. I assume this is the same as the Fog Lane Park bird which apparently also showed a blue speculum.
Indian Spot-billed Duck/Mallard hydrid?
Great Spotted Woodpecker 1f
Nuthatch 2+
Common Gull 1 1st summer
Herring Gull 1 1st summer
Tufted Duck 3f
Indian Spot-billed Duck 1m
I'm certainly no expert but since you've asked for any ideas and for what it's worth...
I think the smallish bill doesn't really look like Snow Goose, or Canada Goose for that matter, the plumage doesn't look like Canada either. In my opinion it seems to more closely resemble the bill of an Emperor Goose, and at a push...the whole head looks Emperor-ish too.
The yellow could also be explained by Emperor and look closely at the base of the neck, a beautiful scaly pattern that 'could' be down to Emperor.
One last thing, on Google images, type in Emperor Goose hybrid and your first couple of images could provide some help to possible identification with an Emperor x Barnacle Goose hybrid that looks fairly close to yours.
No Shoveler, Merganser or Goosander.
The usual Mute Swans, Canada Geese, Mallard, Tufted Duck, Coot, Moorhen.
1 Common Gull spotted amongst the Blackheaded.
2 pairs of Heron. One sitting in the south nest. 2 building in the north nest.
Nuthatches seen and heard. Goldcrests.
Shoveler 1
Tufted Duck 40
Goosander 1 female
Shoveler 1 male
Tufted Duck 37
Lesser Black-backed Gull 2
Tufted Duck 41
Shoveler 1 drake
Grey Heron pair at nest
Common Gull 4
Lesser Black-backed Gull 1
Carrion Crow 47
shoveler 2m 1juv m
Buzzard over flying north
Ringnecked parakeets. 2 flocks (23 & 15 AT LEAST) flew west of south at sunrise. Direction of Southern Cem & Chorlton WP
Still no sawbills
Carrion Crow 47
No sawbills
1 Goosander redhead - flew East at 11:02
No RB Merganser
2 Heron
11:40
Redbreasted Merganser 1
Goosander redhead 1
8+ goldcrest
3 nuthatch
1 grey wagtail
3 song thrush
25+ redwing
11 mistle thrush
5 ring-necked parakeet
6 moorhen
8 coot
7 tufted duck
4 mute swan (3 adults all with blue darvics: 4CUN, 4BUT, 4CLX)
1 grey heron
83+ black-headed gull
2 common gull
1 lesser black-backed gull
I made two visits here this morning plus one to Platt Fields Park, no Mergus species at either, they must be somewhere.
1 Herring Gull yesterday
12:40
4 Goosander (all redhead)
1 Redbreasted Merganser
12:10 today
No Mergus at all!
2 Heron (1 in each bay, steeple-stemmed)
-- Edited by James Walsh on Friday 24th of November 2017 09:29:29 PM
Soon after 1 of the Goosander females departed east.
The other female Goosander and Red-breasted Merganser remained.
I assume the Merganser is a female with it's bright red bill?
Goosander 2
Great Spotted Woodpecker 3 together
1 Redbreasted Merganser
Redwings, Mistle thrushes & Blackbirds vey active
12:10 today
1 red-breasted merganser
5 goosanders
11 tufted ducks
1 grey wagtail
Red-breasted Merganser 1
Goosander 6 (5 redhead)
Red-breasted Merganser still present
Goosander 4 redhead
Fieldfare 2+
Ring-necked Parakeet 27+
a reasonably sized fish, promptly dived bombed by 3 Black Headed Gulls,but
managed to swallow it ,thwarting the gulls.
Red-breasted Merganser flew in alone at 09.05
Goosander 3
Cormorant 1
Herring Gull 2
Common Gull 1
Ring-necked Parakeet 62+
Goldcrest 4
Grey Wagtail 2
Redwing - several
Goldfinch 16+
Think everyone went to see the Red-breasted Merganser today !
Also around 43 Ring-necked parakeets in the trees
-- Edited by Mark Burgess on Sunday 19th of November 2017 02:19:12 PM
Goosander 8
Siskin 1 over
Goosander 7
Ring-necked Parakeet c40
Coot - white darvic DZF (presumably ringed here)
Red breasted Merganser still present up till 14.15
Nuthatch , ring necked parakeets large mixed tit flock in trees
keep birding
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 17th of November 2017 04:49:14 PM
Goosanders now 15
-- Edited by Tim Wilcox on Friday 17th of November 2017 01:22:47 PM
Goosander 13
Really nice comparison photos there :)
Goosander 13. First one at 16.02 then 7 at 16.06 flew south-east, presumably to roost at Broad Ees Dole, leaving 5 remaining at 16.20
Ring-necked Parakeet 66 at 16.20
10 Goosander present, including 4 adult males
4 Mute swan including 1 1st winter
14 Canada goose
23 Mallard
5 Tufted duck
6 Coot
7 Moorhen
54 Blackheaded gull (plus 35 on the football field, making 89)
1 Grey heron
1 Grey wagtail
plus Ringnecked parakeets over.
Treecreeper 1
Naked eye observation as I came out of the café - c10 ring-necked parakeets flew into the park (to roost?)