Many thanks to all birders who have reported sightings of Dippers (not necessarily our colour ringed birds) throughout 2008. Some records were of birds outside our study area but we are nevertheless interested as all records of this type can be of immense value to the County Database.
One particularly notable record came as a result of a 24 hr bird race; this record of adults feeding juveniles was at a territory, which probably as a result of delayed breeding, we had previously thought to be unoccupied.
Please keep up the good work and we will keep the web site informed of any noteworthy juvenile dispersals. A lecture at last week's North West Ringers' Conference on colour ringed Blacktailed Godwits told that public reportings had increased the reporting rate by a factor of six!
45 Dipper nesting attempts were monitored (22 of these were in G. Manchester)
25 new adults were colour ringed and the same number were either retrapped or identified from colour ring sightings. 117 pulli were given metal rings.

Very interesting Tony. I saw TWO Dippers together both ringed in the same way. Did they in fact come from the same nest?

Tim

Metal only ringed Dipper reported by Tim Wilcox on the Etherow at Compstall has been identified as a 2007 pullus ringed in the nest at Uppermill on the Tame, a movement of at least 16km. It is now colour ringed Purple over metal right tarsus, and Blue and Orange striped on left tarsus.
The question is how did it get there? Via the confluence under Asda in Stockport, or through Staley Brushes and over the watershed to Ogden Brook?

So is this new craze called Dipping or birding, sounds extremely like Dogging to me

Steve

Purely in the interests of science, Ian - honest!

Steve Suttill wrote:

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The Dippers on the Mossley/Greenfield border were copulating in public on Sunday morning - have they no shame?

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Which is worse Steve, them doing it in public or you watching them ?

The Dippers on the Mossley/Greenfield border were copulating in public on Sunday morning - have they no shame?

Makes you wonder what the teenagers are like.

Blimey - it's Friday and the first chance I've had to look at this forum all week!

Managed to find 2 more Dipper nests over the Easter Weekend (both in Mossley).

This could get to be obsessive, but concentrating on just one species really is rewarding. I'll soon be as bad as Tony W with his lurid tales of bigamy and incest amongst the Dippers of Delph!

Steve

...and Sand Martins...
Yes, I am aware of the small Sand Martin colony in the centre of Stockport near the pyramid - I don't often get exact information on it because I think viewing is difficult from the bridge? The Cheadle Bridge one - had a look at that a few years ago and suspect it could be vulnerable to flooding? Not necessarily in the breeding season, but flooding in winter could erode the banks quite severely. Tony will keep his eye on it, no doubt.
Sand Martins breed in pipes all through the centre of Manchester on the Irwell, and at Radcliffe town centre where Ian Campbell monitors them. Also in peat piles, any heaps of sand that might be available at quarries etc. Very adaptable.
Dippers in Wigan town centre - need checking out for breeding I suspect - maybe a good site near the magistrates' court? Wouldn't surprise me.

Cheers Ian. Apparently they also breed in the middle of Sheffield by t'Wicker where t'water runs ovver t'weir, and can be seen perched on discarded shopping trolleys and traffic cones. Yes please photographers!

tonywilkinson wrote:

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Dipper in Wigan? Did Judith kidnap it? I seem to remember one being seen on the Wirral a few years ago; it was probably another of our exports

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Tony,

Dippers breed in Wigan along the River Douglas in Haigh CP, and are often seen along the stretch going into the town centre, from Bottling Wood and through Whelley. I`ve watched them from the bridge near Tesco`s, next to the busy crossroads - truly urban Dippers !

There has been a loose colony of sand martins in the walls from Tescos in Portwood to the pyramid. The data we can collect on these nests are numbers, adult return dates, approx fledging dates etc but the site is probably too difficult to ring. There is a river bank colony near Cheadle Bridge (south of Parrs Wood), which is a mist nettable site capable of producing good numbers.

We are careful not to give exact details; there are some dubious people about. As long as Judith knows that covers it. I don't know Arley Woods but it would be nice to hear about ringed birds away from their natal rivers!!
Thanks Jimmy

Dipper in Wigan? Did Judith kidnap it? I seem to remember one being seen on the Wirral a few years ago; it was probably another of our exports

Tony, I will keep an eye out for sand martins nests.

I have seen them entering pipe work and holes in the retaining wall by the office park near to quick fit, I think the bridge is called Gorsey Bridge, the street is King St. I first saw them in 2005 and they have been there each year since. I have never made a systematic count of holes being used but I would estimate half a dozen. We shall have to see if they turn up again this year.

dipper seen in arley woods this morning looked to be on territory wont put exact site on as its mate could be nesting nearby cheers jimmy

last summer a guy came into where i work and asked if he could set a camera up in the bushes by the river Douglas in Wigan town centre cause he had seen a Dipper the day before.

Paul D

Another good riparian species on that walk is Sand Martin; but the colonies come and go. Last year was not good in Reddish Vale for example, but two years ago we ringed 150+ including a retrap with a Spanish ring. Number of nest holes in use would be very valuable.

One bird was ringed at Daisy Nook at a ringing demo for the Ranger service 2006 I think

Steve Suttill wrote:Has anyone been checking the Medlock for Dippers?

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I had 1poss 2 birds on the section of the Medlock known locally as Lees Brook last week but no sign of any rings. In fact I don't think I've ever seen a ringed bird on that section in the last 10 years, although several use it in winter. Riggers covers this area for his tetrad as well, so between the two of us we should spot any up as far as Bishop's Park. Will pass on any evidence of breeding to Judith

Tony, thanks for the information, its always nice when you get to find out more about the birds you have seen.

Judith, all the birds were seen on a walk from Stockport town centre to East Didsbury, one I have done a few times this year which has turned up some nice birds a suprising number of which are close to town (2 redpoll a suprise 3 weeks ago by the pyramid roundabout)

The kingfisher was next to the pyramid by the two bridges either side of the Woolpack pub, I think the road is called called Brinksway (goosander here as well). The chiffchaff was by the horse paddock at Vale Farm and the buzzard was at Cheadle bridge over the fields between the river and the M60.

Now I'm on I will continue to put anything of interest up.

Welcome to the forum , Paul.
Were your sightings of Chiffchaff, Buzzard and Kingfisher also at East Didsbury (eg Cheadle Bridge?) I do note sightings for the county bird report from this forum, so just need to be accurate!
Judith Smith (County Recorder)

Hi Paul and welcome to the world of Dipper fans.
Your sighting really is superb, and your colours are better than most, giving undreamed of insight into the life of Dippers. In some ways it goes a long way to answering Steve Suttill's question. Part of our ringing team has been out this week in the early stages of our big Dipper chase. We had a three bird flypast on the River Sett at Hayfield; it was a real territorial battle involving last year's male. We checked a 'new' nest at New Mills but failed to catch the pair, were apprehended by a local fishing club member, wanting to know why we had a net in the river. How did he find out???? Apart from that birds were not around.
Now your colour ringed bird. Right tarsus Pink over metal is the River combination of the brook with various names coming from Lyme Park, through Bramhall Park and Cheadle Hulme. We only found two nests on that stretch and colour ringed all adult birds and put metals on the pulli.
Left tarsus light green pink was the female at Cheadle Hulme. We know the colours are tricky without a scope but we don't have much choice.
Dipper are well known for altitude migration, as described in the Poyser monograph (very readable) and this is either an example of that or maybe the female kicking a juvenile out of the home territory. Whatever, 25km movements are very rare; this at 4km is enough to get the county recorder happy.
With lots of reports of non-colour ringed birds and a shortage of last years adults we were wondering if the colour rings were coming off in some way, or maybe that the mortality rate was higher than expected over the winter. There has been a Dipper record before at East Didsbury, a good spot if it is your patch, but doesn't the colour ring combination improve things.
The territorial male is right pink over metal and left light green/light pink stripe.

Cheers

Tony

I am a new user and just registered so I can put up a sighting of two dipper (a pair?) this morning on the river mersey at East Didsbury. One of them was colour ringed, having three rings, a pink ring above what I think was the standard metal ring on the right leg and a light green ring on the left. The light wasn't great but i am fairly confident about the colours.

This topped a belting morning having had my first chiffchaff of the year, kingfisher and a buzzard.

All the hard work started to pay off this weekend with one nest found (informed Tony by phone) and a few more territories starting to take shape.

No colour-ringed birds found yet. Where have they all gone? Has anyone been checking the Medlock for Dippers?

Thanks Tony,

I just said I got very cold and muddy - I didn't say I didn't enjoy myself! I think most bird watchers must be masochists to some degree!

Will try to do a bit more searching this weekend but the forecast doesn't look good.

Yes, I caught the Dipper film on Bill Oddie's show. Cracking shots of the juveniles. Wish I had the cameraman's time and patience!

Steve

Steve, I thought about you, having that lousy weather on your day off. However you are supposed to enjoy your days off. Even Dippers don't like days like that but your records were still extremely good. The birds at Well-i-Hole bridge (got it now. Think the road is called Well-i-Hole Road?!!), and Heyrod Sewage Wks were all moving in the 'right' direction if you get my drift.
Nev Powell and I 'did' most of the River Sett the other day, and although we knew all the nest sites, we didn't see a single bird. Next time it will be totally different. I hope.
Did you see Bill Oddie last night? What fabulous camera angles that guy gets.

Tony

Weds 12/3/08: walked 5km stretch of Tame from the old Hartshead Power Station, Heyrod to Royal George Mill lodge, Greenfield, most of it in both directions. Got very cold and muddy!

Previous night's rain made it bad for Dippers - far too much water and most of favourite perching stones covered with it.

Heyrod Sewage Works (SD974004): one Dipper flying downstream at treetop height.

Roaches Bridge, Mossley: one Dipper sitting on riverbank looking a bit unhappy with the conditions!

Well-i-hole Bridge, Greenfield (SD986041): one Dipper hunting for food, departed downstream.

Huddersfield Canal, Greenfield (SD983042): one Dipper, also departed downstream. Kingfisher and hunting male Sparrowhawk also present at this spot.

Hi Tony

Roaches Bridge is at SD979032 - you can walk the bank downstream from the Roaches Lock PH car park. For upstream, cross the road bridge and follow Heron Lane.

The next bridge upstream is Wright Mill bridge on the Greenfield border SD980038 - access via Calf Lane (which is very rough and potholed - I once met a woman there whose car had got stuck when she followed her satnav like Mr Rigby!).

When I used to do the WBS, Scout Green SD974013 always had Dippers. The steep torrent seemed to be the division between two territories. There's a footbridge over the river from the main A635.

I've got the day off this Weds. I'll have a serious look after visiting the dentist. If I do find nests I'll inform you by e-mail or phone.

Cheers, Steve

Now you are cooking on gas Steve! Other contibutors to this thread are reporting the birds at similar stages of breeding. Last year when we were following up Kath Butterworth and Phil Kenyon's leads on Uppermill and above we just identified all the bridges and culverts on the stretch and hung around bird watching (mainly Grey Wagtails of course) keeping a low profile until the Dippers arrived with moss. That's how we found the bulk of the nest sites quite quickly.
The stretch there is particularly good for a pub lunch if you are looking for the elusive one or two nests. Since we are not too familiar with the rivers there a GR for the places you name would be valuable. Also how do you gain access, via roads or from the canal? Our group report for 2007 is nearly complete; you are writing the 'What to do in 2008?' section for us. Copies will be made available by e-mail to interested contributors.
The other thing we did was to plot the sightings on the OS map and tried to fill in the gaps. I suspect that there could be 6 territories between Stalybridge and the Chew Brook confluence; so far the only birds we have done are the two on your Mossley (Bottom) site.

Tony

This weekend's results from Mossley/Greenfield:

Sat 8/3: none at Wood End or Micklehurst. Pair just below Roaches Bridge & wier, indulging in much courtship behaviour (stretching, wing-shivering and chasing). They didn't seem to venture upstream of the wier.

Sun9/3 (during WeBS counts): none on the Chew Brook at "Tanners". One on the Tame below Well-i-Hole bridge (Greenfield) which flew off downstream.

Sun (2pm): Two (probable pair) on Tame above Roaches wier, never ventured below the wier and eventually headed off upstream. Another one below the bridge. The wier at Roaches would appear to be the boundary of two territories.

All these birds were unringed.

Cheers, Steve

Last year a member of our 'Dippy' team expressed the opinion that there were only one/two pairs on 'his patch' in Cheshire; he ended up ringing about 5 families! A fair amount of effort was expended but it was a great help to the new Cheshire Atlas. If we all were to emulate then I feel that the county knowledge of say, Treecreeper, Coal Tit, etc could be greatly enhanced. As another example I missed the day/days last year when 60+ Grey Wagtails were present, admittedly on return migration, at a Stockport WwTW. Judith would be a very happy bunny with records like that as would the BTO! Come on AJS give us a steer; you may be surprised with the result. The request for Dipper info has far exceeded our expectations. How about you?

Tony

Judith Smith wrote:

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That's a second nest site, Tony.

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excellent! good news indeed!

That's a second nest site, Tony. But I had marked Paul's site out as a possible, as a dead bird in perfect condition was found on the road bridge parapet a few years ago (it went to the Natural History Museum at Tring).

Thanks Paul, there are no ringed birds on the Irwell as far as I know. Judith knows the nest site I think but most of the Dippers seem to be building now.

Tony

out filming this morning spotted a dipper collecting moss under the railway bridge at summerseat - flew off with a beak full under the waterside pub.

didn't have my bins or my scope with sadly...

Thanks Neil; We are not covering Bolton, but your record shows that we can find nest sites on suitable days this month, and also sows where to look for fledged juveniles in the near future. These will valuable to any one doing BTO Breeding Atlas work.

Tony

See my post on Bradshaw Brook, 2 dippers, watched them for a long time feeding in the brook and flying into the bank.

Hi Steve,

Our Dipper colour ringing project owes a lot to filling that gap before the main breeding season; we were very successful in your neck of the woods, but all your unringed birds really are interesting. Some may be from local nesting attempts that we missed e.g. Roaches(?) or they may be dispersals or altitude migrations from up the Chew Brook. We only found one nest on Chew Brook at Tanners but that was predated, and as it was less than three feet above water we suspected Mink. Our only uplands excursion produced a nesting pair above Denshaw at New Years Reservoir; this is not a site for fair weather birders!!!
Retained juvenile feathers are one of the most useful indicators of passerines hatched in the previous breeding season, but the fringes often wear making ageing tricky even if the birds are in hand. Judith sent me a photo taken at Burrs Country Park Bury, of a Dipper feeding a juvenile, showing lots of fringeing. The juveniles spend a lot of energy replacing the fringed feathers, and in years of plenty possibly only the main flight feathers are retained. You might well see this fringeing with a good pair of 10x40 bins, especially as the birds often pose quite well. Nuthatches, which nearly undergo a complete post-juvenile moult, (like House Sparrows and Long Tailed Tit), sometimes show brown fringeing on lesser and median coverts; with a bit of luck this could be visible in some cases also.

Tony

Winter Atlas work complete, what I needed was an excuse to get out before the breeding season - solution: Dipper hunting!

Saturday morning (Mar 1st) - Mossley: just the one bird (unringed) just below Roaches Bridge, flew off behind the pub over the canal.

Sunday morning (Mar 2nd) - Greenfield: one bird on the apex of the river bend by the EWT, flew off upstream. Moved to confluence of Tame and Chew Brook where there were at least 3 (maybe 4) birds (all unringed), one of which was singing away on the bank when a Mink appeared from the river and went straight for it! The Dipper escaped - this time! Despite there being more than one pair present, I witnessed no territorial disputes.

The experts (Tyler & Ormerod) say that young birds don't moult their wing feathers until July of the year following fledging and retain pale edges to the wing coverts. Can this be seen easily on a wet bird, or is it something which is obvious on a bird in the hand? Advice on this question would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Steve

PS - all my Dipper records are sent to Judith at the end of the year.

-- Edited by Steve Suttill at 11:34, 2008-03-03

Hi Ian,

My main worry is, as you state, possible non-submission to Judith. The other issue of a reported sighting missed (in another thread) is with a species like Dipper less likely than others. At worst it could result in someone feeling that I had been rude in not acknowledging their efforts, but I prefer not to have another reporting form. It is good to receive reports from birders but I would like to think that local birders begin to recognise and hence enjoy the continued presence of 'their' birds.

We are currently, perhaps too late for the 2008 season, frantically installing nest boxes.

Coming soon to a box near you.....?

A few more Grey Wagtails are showing on the rivers now also, but Kingfishers are keeping a low profile.

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony,

the county bird sightings forum is purely for letting other birders know of your sightings, sharing them for all, so's to speak. Having said that though, they are utilised for the county bird report in parts so are going to some good use, my only worry is that users of the forum may negate to still send their records into the county bird recorder which could well lead to lots of records going missing afterall the county recorder can't always go through each and every posting all the time! In your case, a colour-ringed Dipper thread will no doubt go to raise the profile of these birds and your scheme but those posting sightings should bear in mind that you should be informed by other means also (email I assume) otherwise it means you'll have to trawl through the thread every so often to check for new details, which you might not mind doing?

If you have such a form for recording these birds then I'll be happy to put it onto my website for folk to download, fill in and then send on to yourself and/or Judith.

To Steve Suttill:- Dipper is one of those species which you regularly see on your patch until you look for them! They are often on their favourite stone etc and this can lead to complacency and underrecording. I recently had an e-mail from Prof David Norman who is writing large amounts of species accounts for the Cheshire and Wirral Ornithological Society County Bird Atlas due to be published in the Autumn; he commented on coverage of Dipper being very variable with no confirmed breeding reported in some years, and there is an apparent loss of breeding Dippers in upto 20 tetrads since the first Atlas was published some years ago. Is the loss real??? Colour ringed birds can add interest to ones birding, but we must remember that Judith needs our records, preferably in a form which can be imported into her data base. For my money a chat room is for airing views but it is up to the site moderator to define the rules. Tony