Stunning photos on this website - thanks Adrian and Bob
But having looked at these and other pictures on the web it really proves that photographs do lie. Just look at the bill in the various available images and the dark band varies from prominent to almost non-existent depending on the sunlight. I'm not saying that any of these would confuse this particular identification, just highlighting in general that identification relying on photographs alone is a dangerous trait.
I guess this is another advert for the old-fashioned notebook and pencil (and having seen Ian sketching yesterday whilst his fingers were nearly snapping off with cold I'm sure he would agree)
Cheers, John
Geoff Walton said
Wed Nov 10 5:04 PM, 2010
Two thirds of "we three" arrived for an hour about 2.30pm, and eventually it showed well in the middle. Will watch the telly tonight. I suspect we will be back on friday when the other "third" is available - bird willing.
Whist we were at the V.C. putting a ticket on a TV van bringing the lake to larger public seems a little silly.
P.S. I am glad I picked up "Grebes of the World" for a song, as I had no picture in my other books.
-- Edited by Geoff Walton on Wednesday 10th of November 2010 05:09:16 PM
Dean Macdonald said
Wed Nov 10 5:01 PM, 2010
Excellent views from the hide as it swam in from the main water.
Also had a Kingfisher and a Robin in the same treeThat was a first.
Geoff Eldridge said
Wed Nov 10 5:01 PM, 2010
I'd be surprised if birders could fill all the available parking as the lake attracts hordes of people on a hot summer's day. There is an overspill sign posted also on t he road to Littleborough - although I think you can park free on that road. (10 -15 minute walk)
pete berry said
Wed Nov 10 5:00 PM, 2010
There seem to be numbers of people now claiming some of the glory for the grebes identification,and although these people were undoubtedly links in the chain it has to be said that Ian was the first person to correctly identify the bird(and be 100% confident it was one) and put the news out immediately.I think we all owe Ian a big thanks(he'll probably kill me for this,or at least not come gulling with me for a while)!!Hopefully this helps to puts the record straight on an amazing rarity for gt. m/c and the country. Pete Berry
Mark Rigby said
Wed Nov 10 4:58 PM, 2010
The Grebe was featured on BBC north west news at lunchtime so should be on again at 1830hrs (BBC 1)
jason fisher said
Wed Nov 10 4:56 PM, 2010
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Parking fines are now being issued for cars parked anywhere other than the visitor centre car park. It is double yellow lines all the way along the road there.
bet the bloke from the beeb wished he'd seen this, his van had a ticket on it.
lovely little bird am dead chuffed, seeing it. was there from around 1.30 till 3pm, no idea who the people were who i was talking to other than one chap from the northwich otpics shop.
king fisher also showed well, great crested grebe and a common gull out on the lake mixed in with the black headeds.
plus a peregrine almost taking a pigeon on the drive home, lovely day
Rob Smallwood said
Wed Nov 10 4:43 PM, 2010
And if you turn up at the Pay & Display before the car park officially opens you still have to buy a ticket - otherwise your County Tick will cost you £25.00
Judith Smith said
Wed Nov 10 4:31 PM, 2010
Milbury Drive (not weekends) - turn R on bend at Beach Hotel. Free. You can then walk round the E side of the lake to the NR.
There will be something on BBC NW Tonight about the grebe, also something in tomorrow's Manchester Evg News.
Also Kingfisher (s) showing intermittently on the NR today.
Craig Higson said
Wed Nov 10 4:03 PM, 2010
Robin Tong wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good place to park if the car park is full, I don't mind a good walk!
I'm sure more regular visitors will be able to help better than I Robin, but from what I saw yesterday there was plenty parking on the 'rough' section of the car park (people didnt seem to realise it was there and were driving back out) but failing that many people were parking on the main road adjacent to the lake, and some even parked on the pay and display near the chippie at the opposite end of the lake.
Sean Sweeney said
Wed Nov 10 3:49 PM, 2010
Cracking little bird, which was very obliging. Views from a matter of metres. Was worth coming home early from Cumbria. Also plenty of redwing and siskin in trees surrounding approaching paths. Cheers to those involved in identifying the bird and getting the news out. This one was definetly not on my list of hopefuls in GM for 2010!!!
Henry Cook said
Wed Nov 10 3:43 PM, 2010
12-2pm - PIED-BILLED GREBE still present but leaving the nature reserve area occasionally and onto the main lake. Also present during my visit:
Congrats to Adrian whose pics are now gracing the BBC!
Robin Tong said
Wed Nov 10 2:42 PM, 2010
Can anyone recommend a good place to park if the car park is full, I don't mind a good walk!
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Nov 10 1:44 PM, 2010
The bird has now it the national news, just a shame every man and is dog seems to be claiming to have identified it from the photos now. Certainly wasn't the case on Tuesday morning!
Rick Hall said
Wed Nov 10 1:42 PM, 2010
Lovely views from about 11.30 - 12.30. My first ever mega. Not sure if I enjoyed the experience that much. The bird was great, but I think I prefer being all alone on top of Winter Hill.
Still, I might start a life list now, the great big hypocrite that I am.
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Nov 10 1:26 PM, 2010
Parking fines are now being issued for cars parked anywhere other than the visitor centre car park. It is double yellow lines all the way along the road there.
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Nov 10 1:10 PM, 2010
Some great images now on the Manchester Birding galleries.
JOHN TYMON said
Wed Nov 10 12:52 PM, 2010
Just had an e-mail at work from Jon Tavstill showing well close to the hide about every 45 mins its passing close and im stuck in workits diving all the time-about 80+ people there last count.
Rob Smallwood said
Wed Nov 10 12:10 PM, 2010
20 - 30 birders present from early morning, but up to 100 now.
Lots of suited and booted types calling in on the way to work.
Showed really well and behaviour good so far....
Steve Suttill said
Wed Nov 10 11:56 AM, 2010
Simon Hitchen wrote:
I didn't think too much more about it and decided to do some BTO atlas work in Milnrow rather than walking round the Lake for a closer look ....in retrospect not one of my greatest ever decisions! --
Your dedication to BirdAtlas is exemplary, Simon.
Hope you didn't enter Little Grebe as a Roving Record
Keep up the good work...
Steve
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Nov 10 10:54 AM, 2010
The Pied-billed Grebe has been slightly more mobile this morning and has ventured out onto the main lake on a few occasions, heading down towards the visitor centre car park and hanging around underneath overhanging trees. It was last seen heading back towards the pool by the hide though.
sid ashton said
Wed Nov 10 8:56 AM, 2010
theroux wrote:
good morning everyone, my friend Martin Griffiths and i were in the group at Hollingworth Lake on sunday when i took the (not very good) pictures of the grebe. On the Monday he sent me a picture of a pied billed grebe, which looked similar to the one in my pictures. I emailed him the pics i took and he forwarded them to some one who verified it. I find it very gratifying that Martin pursued the identification further and came up trumps.
Well done that man
Philip Taylor said
Wed Nov 10 8:31 AM, 2010
we went to hollingworth lake nobody in the group knowing anything about it. I must admit that on arrival our bus load of 40 were a bit dissapointed. however, it all turned out ok in the end
Philip Taylor said
Wed Nov 10 8:25 AM, 2010
good morning everyone, my friend Martin Griffiths and i were in the group at Hollingworth Lake on sunday when i took the (not very good) pictures of the grebe. On the Monday he sent me a picture of a pied billed grebe, which looked similar to the one in my pictures. I emailed him the pics i took and he forwarded them to some one who verified it. I find it very gratifying that Martin pursued the identification further and came up trumps.
Ian McKerchar said
Wed Nov 10 7:18 AM, 2010
Pied-billed Grebe still present this morning, same location.
Info thanks to Iain Johnson
Matt Potter said
Tue Nov 9 10:45 PM, 2010
Now living in the wrong country, with a week off with mrs P and baby.... Worked in Rochdale up until last March.... But we will be visiting me mum this weekend.......
Phil Owen said
Tue Nov 9 9:38 PM, 2010
Nothing wrong with that Simon, as I said to you earlier, it would have been much worse the other way round!!!
Simon Hitchen said
Tue Nov 9 9:29 PM, 2010
Yes I have to own up I've been caught red-handed stringing a Little Grebe, which in my immortal words ( which I'm sure I'll never be allowed to forget!) are rare here. Well in fact they still are rare here - considerably rarer than Pied-billed Grebe at the moment. In my defence I did see the bird from the opposite side of the Lake through my scope - I did think at the time that it looked slightly 'wrong' - a bit sleeker and stouter and big headed than usual but there are (as stated previously!) no Little Grebes to compare it with at Hollingworth Lake. Feeling slightly disappointed that it wasn't a Slav ( which are also rare here!) I didn't think too much more about it and decided to do some BTO atlas work in Milnrow rather than walking round the Lake for a closer look ....in retrospect not one of my greatest ever decisions! Oh well... only 200 years to missing the next mega at Hollingworth Lake!
Amazing bird though - to me it looks much bigger billed in the photos than it does in the field. I think it's much easier identifying Pied-billed Grebe when you're expecting to see one than when you're not, but the moral of the story is always expect the unexpected and check through the seemingly mundane.
Still however wondering what is the more remarkable event - a Pied-billed Grebe turning up in Rochdale or an RSPB group from Mansfield thinking that a great day out would be a trip to Hollingworth lake
PS: in answer to your question Steve yes there have been records of Black-necked Grebe at the Lake - the last was in the eighties though and I have yet to see one here.
-- Edited by Simon Hitchen on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 09:41:44 PM
Judith Smith said
Tue Nov 9 8:36 PM, 2010
A little bit more on the background to the ID of this grebe: Martin Griffiths is a member of the Mansfield RSPB group which visited HL on Sunday. He forwarded some photos of the grebe to Tim Melling at the North office of the RSPB, who thought they were very suggestive of Pied-billed, and forwarded them to me. I forwarded them to Ian. The rest is history.
Iain Johnson said
Tue Nov 9 7:54 PM, 2010
For all those who had to work today, see you all in the morning I expect!
and for those who didn't work, I'm guessing that a bout of bird-flu has just hit manchester!!
Steve Atkins said
Tue Nov 9 7:48 PM, 2010
Simon Hitchen wrote:
1 Little Grebe - rare here
I think you'll find Simon that Pied billed is slightly rarer In fact on an initial assessment this could well be the rarest bird recorded in Rochdale in modern times (according to BBRC only 37 records in Great Britain since the first in 1963). It's also the first rare (excluding Little ) grebe on the Lake since a Slavonian in 1999 and Red-necked in 1996. Amazingly, Black-necked Grebe doesn't appear to have been recorded here. Perhaps someone else knows differently. It's a bit like deja vu all over again: 5th November 2009 - A Great Northern Diver 4th (so it would seem) November 2010 - Pied Billed Grebe Still, keep looking Simon, it might be joined by a 2nd!
-- Edited by Steve Atkins on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 07:52:33 PM
Rob Smallwood said
Tue Nov 9 7:20 PM, 2010
For those that can't wait the latest photo on BirdGuides will answer both id questions and satisfy any remaining doubters!
JOHN TYMON said
Tue Nov 9 6:56 PM, 2010
Ian McKerchar wrote:
Amazing photos of this cracker due on the Manchester Birding website galleries tomorrow when I get home from work (bloody nights!).
bloody daysat this time of year ,I was tempted to take my bike lamp,and have a go in the dark Well done to the person who picked it out,has when you look at the pic on birdguides at any distance ,that would have been a little grebe,makes you wonder where else it could have been recently in gm and missedhow many of us see a group of little grebes and have a real butchers,This should make us all take a second look at everything we seebecause that crippler could be on your local patch anytime. And anyone who says they would never mistake the pied billed ,should look at the picture-well done the person who found it and the person who identified it correctly. Interestingly how many would have seen it would have noticed the difference,has ive no chance of going to see it due to work,is it bigger,than a little grebe
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Nov 9 6:46 PM, 2010
Amazing photos of this cracker due on the Manchester Birding website galleries tomorrow when I get home from work (bloody nights!).
John Rayner said
Tue Nov 9 6:34 PM, 2010
Simon Warford wrote:
Pied Billed Grebe present till dusk and showing well.
Lost count of the number of familier birders there. Although apparently John Rayner was mis identified as my new dad.
OMG! I don't know who that insults more, me, you or your dad.
Phil Owen said
Tue Nov 9 6:28 PM, 2010
Just when I thought I had seen all the Grebes for GM and this turns up!!!
Cracking views of the Pied-billed Grebe from the path at 2.10pm and later with Sid Ashton from the hide.
A GM first and nice to have a "Mega" so closeby for a change.
Nice to put some faces to names off the forum and Sid did have us laughing about the new Mr John Rayner-Warford to add to the fun!!
-- Edited by Phil Owen on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 06:29:30 PM
Simon Warford said
Tue Nov 9 6:02 PM, 2010
Pied Billed Grebe present till dusk and showing well.
Lost count of the number of familier birders there. Although apparently John Rayner was mis identified as my new dad.
sid ashton said
Tue Nov 9 6:01 PM, 2010
Thanks to Ian for the information and nice to meet so many Manchester birders among the big crowd and oh yes a smashing bird that Pied-billed Grebe
Paul Wilson said
Tue Nov 9 5:51 PM, 2010
Good photo of the bird now on Birdguides: http://www.birdguides.com/iris/pictures.asp?mode=file&f=275204
Roger Baker 3 said
Tue Nov 9 5:49 PM, 2010
What a cracking web-site this is. Brilliant.
Abandoned job I was doing and arrived Littleborough at 14-30 hrs.
Good job someone else had ID'd it as if I had been on my own I would just have noted it as a Little Grebe.
Saying that, it's bill does not seem as " heavy " as photos I have looked at and also its bill seems to be more marked on one side than the other. May be just me ?
Thanks very much for the original post Neil.
Roger.
PS. Now have to burn the midnight oil to complete the forgotten job.
-- Edited by Roger Baker 3 on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 05:52:48 PM
-- Edited by Roger Baker 3 on Wednesday 10th of November 2010 01:51:10 AM
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Nov 9 3:55 PM, 2010
and seeing as I've been asked quite a few times now, yes, it is a county first!
Ian McKerchar said
Tue Nov 9 2:25 PM, 2010
The (adult) Pied-billed Grebe is currently favouring the nature reserve area from the hide. It is sheltered there and the bird has been showing constantly very well indeed.
The bird has possibly been around since the 4th of November when an unusual looking grebe was seen in poor conditions out in the middle of the lake (see Simon Hitchen's post below). Then on the 7th a grebe was photographed by Mansfield birder Martin Griffiths who was purplexed by it's identification, with suggestions ranging from Little to Red-necked Grebe. Fortunately Martin was intruiged enough to seek further assistance and the photographs he took landed this morning. Though far from conclusive they certainly hinted at something better than Little Grebe. The rest of course, is history...
Please note that parking should be only made in the visitor centre car park (pay and display) and not along the roadside. It is then only a short walk from the visitor centre, up towards the motorway following the footpath around the edge of the lake by the nature reserve.
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:26:43 PM
Neil Calbrade said
Tue Nov 9 12:24 PM, 2010
Bit of MEGA pager news - Pied-billed Grebe at the south-east end today!!!
Simon Hitchen said
Thu Nov 4 8:14 PM, 2010
1 Little Grebe - rare here 1 Great-crested Grebe 4 Cormorant 240+ Fieldfare 1 Brambling - Pavilion Wood 10+ Siskin
Simon Hitchen said
Thu Oct 28 9:58 PM, 2010
6 adult Whoopers this morning but as usual here they were soon forced off by boats Presumably the same birds then moved downmarket and headed over the hill to Piethorne - if only the boats would do the same.
Simon Hitchen said
Thu Oct 14 10:44 PM, 2010
14/10 : Big influx of Redwings today - 180+ a conservative estimate but only 1 Fieldfare in amongst them. Also seemed to be an influx of Blackbirds - 30+
Yes thanks Paul - all part of the service - my bill is in the post!
Heard a Kingfisher at the Lake yesterday and saw it this morning - the first here since the big freeze in January so very pleased to see it - hopefully this winter wont be as harsh.
Cheers, Simon
Paul Heaton said
Wed Sep 29 8:57 PM, 2010
Simon it appears you have the healing touch apparently one prod from you and the Gannet sprang to life, well done that man.
But having looked at these and other pictures on the web it really proves that photographs do lie. Just look at the bill in the various available images and the dark band varies from prominent to almost non-existent depending on the sunlight. I'm not saying that any of these would confuse this particular identification, just highlighting in general that identification relying on photographs alone is a dangerous trait.
I guess this is another advert for the old-fashioned notebook and pencil (and having seen Ian sketching yesterday whilst his fingers were nearly snapping off with cold I'm sure he would agree)
Cheers, John
Whist we were at the V.C. putting a ticket on a TV van bringing the lake to larger public seems a little silly.
P.S. I am glad I picked up "Grebes of the World" for a song, as I had no picture in my other books.
-- Edited by Geoff Walton on Wednesday 10th of November 2010 05:09:16 PM
Excellent views from the hide as it swam in from the main water.
Also had a Kingfisher and a Robin in the same treeThat was a first.
Pete Berry
bet the bloke from the beeb wished he'd seen this, his van had a ticket on it.
lovely little bird am dead chuffed, seeing it. was there from around 1.30 till 3pm, no idea who the people were who i was talking to other than one chap from the northwich otpics shop.
king fisher also showed well, great crested grebe and a common gull out on the lake mixed in with the black headeds.
plus a peregrine almost taking a pigeon on the drive home, lovely day
There will be something on BBC NW Tonight about the grebe, also something in tomorrow's Manchester Evg News.
Also Kingfisher (s) showing intermittently on the NR today.
I'm sure more regular visitors will be able to help better than I Robin, but from what I saw yesterday there was plenty parking on the 'rough' section of the car park (people didnt seem to realise it was there and were driving back out) but failing that many people were parking on the main road adjacent to the lake, and some even parked on the pay and display near the chippie at the opposite end of the lake.
1 Kingfisher
3 Goosanders
2 Cormorants
2 Common Gulls
1 Coal Tit
1 Bullfinch
Still, I might start a life list now, the great big hypocrite that I am.
Lots of suited and booted types calling in on the way to work.
Showed really well and behaviour good so far....
Your dedication to BirdAtlas is exemplary, Simon.
Hope you didn't enter Little Grebe as a Roving Record
Keep up the good work...
Steve
Info thanks to Iain Johnson
Amazing bird though - to me it looks much bigger billed in the photos than it does in the field. I think it's much easier identifying Pied-billed Grebe when you're expecting to see one than when you're not, but the moral of the story is always expect the unexpected and check through the seemingly mundane.
Still however wondering what is the more remarkable event - a Pied-billed Grebe turning up in Rochdale or an RSPB group from Mansfield thinking that a great day out would be a trip to Hollingworth lake
PS: in answer to your question Steve yes there have been records of Black-necked Grebe at the Lake - the last was in the eighties though and I have yet to see one here.
-- Edited by Simon Hitchen on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 09:41:44 PM
and for those who didn't work, I'm guessing that a bout of bird-flu has just hit manchester!!
-- Edited by Steve Atkins on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 07:52:33 PM
bloody daysat this time of year ,I was tempted to take my bike lamp,and have a go in the dark
Well done to the person who picked it out,has when you look at the pic on birdguides at any distance ,that would have been a little grebe,makes you wonder where else it could have been recently in gm and missedhow many of us see a group of little grebes and have a real butchers,This should make us all take a second look at everything we seebecause that crippler could be on your local patch anytime.
And anyone who says they would never mistake the pied billed ,should look at the picture-well done the person who found it and the person who identified it correctly.
Interestingly how many would have seen it would have noticed the difference,has ive no chance of going to see it due to work,is it bigger,than a little grebe
OMG! I don't know who that insults more, me, you or your dad.
Cracking views of the Pied-billed Grebe from the path at 2.10pm and later with Sid Ashton from the hide.
A GM first and nice to have a "Mega" so closeby for a change.
Nice to put some faces to names off the forum and Sid did have us laughing about the new Mr John Rayner-Warford to add to the fun!!
-- Edited by Phil Owen on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 06:29:30 PM
Lost count of the number of familier birders there. Although apparently John Rayner was mis identified as my new dad.
http://www.birdguides.com/iris/pictures.asp?mode=file&f=275204
Abandoned job I was doing and arrived Littleborough at 14-30 hrs.
Good job someone else had ID'd it as if I had been on my own I would just have noted it as a Little Grebe.
Saying that, it's bill does not seem as " heavy " as photos I have looked at and also its bill seems to be more marked on one side than the other. May be just me ?
Thanks very much for the original post Neil.
Roger.
PS. Now have to burn the midnight oil to complete the forgotten job.
-- Edited by Roger Baker 3 on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 05:52:48 PM
-- Edited by Roger Baker 3 on Wednesday 10th of November 2010 01:51:10 AM
The bird has possibly been around since the 4th of November when an unusual looking grebe was seen in poor conditions out in the middle of the lake (see Simon Hitchen's post below). Then on the 7th a grebe was photographed by Mansfield birder Martin Griffiths who was purplexed by it's identification, with suggestions ranging from Little to Red-necked Grebe. Fortunately Martin was intruiged enough to seek further assistance and the photographs he took landed this morning. Though far from conclusive they certainly hinted at something better than Little Grebe. The rest of course, is history...
Please note that parking should be only made in the visitor centre car park (pay and display) and not along the roadside. It is then only a short walk from the visitor centre, up towards the motorway following the footpath around the edge of the lake by the nature reserve.
-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:26:43 PM
1 Great-crested Grebe
4 Cormorant
240+ Fieldfare
1 Brambling - Pavilion Wood
10+ Siskin
Also today 4 Cormorant, 1 Chiffchaff, 2 Goldcrest, 25+ Mipits, 7 Jays, 1 Sparrowhawk, 1 Nuthatch.
13/10 : 2 Pochard
12/10 : pair Gadwall
10/10 : 4 Pochard, drake Goldeneye
Heard a Kingfisher at the Lake yesterday and saw it this morning - the first here since the big freeze in January so very pleased to see it - hopefully this winter wont be as harsh.
Cheers, Simon
keep birding
3 Gadwall
1 Wigeon
No Gannets - dead or alive