Today with Wigan RSPB Group
Lesser Sp Woodpecker Drumming but not seen by us anyway
1 Adult Med Gull on Birchwood Pool
5 Buzzards displaying
Kestrel
Sparrowhawk
and LT Tits everywhere they seem to have done well over the bad winter

Cheers Jimmy

sid ashton wrote:

---

Chatting to others present it seems that there are no reported sightings of a female so far this year at Moore - could the male be aware of the lack of a female presence hence no calling or drumming ? any thoughts on this anyone?
-- Edited by sid ashton on Sunday 7th of March 2010 03:16:27 PM

---

I'd say the lack of a female would intensify its efforts to drum and call?

sid ashton wrote:

---

Other sightings of note - several Treecreeper. Nuthatch, Great Spotted Pecker and Reed Bunting at the feeding station plus one Ian Coote and Julie (hope I got the name right) - good to meet you folks.

-- Edited by sid ashton on Sunday 7th of March 2010 03:16:27 PM

---

You got it right! Nice to meet you too.

Excellent views of the LSW, one for Julie's life list

Cracking views of male Lesser Spotted Woodpecker this morning in the copse between the feeding station and the boardwalk down from the old Latchford canal path. It was first picked by a couple of other birders who saw it rather than hearing it call or drum and apart from a half hearted attempt at drumming as we watched it was a very quite bird. Chatting to others present it seems that there are no reported sightings of a female so far this year at Moore - could the male be aware of the lack of a female presence hence no calling or drumming ? any thoughts on this anyone?

Other sightings of note - several Treecreeper. Nuthatch, Great Spotted Pecker and Reed Bunting at the feeding station plus one Ian Coote and Julie (hope I got the name right) - good to meet you folks.

-- Edited by sid ashton on Sunday 7th of March 2010 03:16:27 PM

Four and half hours with Pete Berry today on Birchwood Pool got us 4+ adult Yellow-legged Gulls, at least one adult Med Gull and there had been a male Lesser Pecker by the car park early afternoon.

Still no Caspian Gull!

Nice walk round ths afternoon in bright sunshine produced amongst others:-

Reed Bunting (good numbers at feeding station)
Willow Tit (2 at feeding station)
Tree Sparrow (Upper Moss Side)
Siskin
Lesser Redpoll
Oystercatcher
Teal
Gadwall
Wigeon
Stock Dove

Nothing out of the ordinary in amongst the Gulls (they may have been over on the tip) but nice to see the Little Owl back again on the roof of the barn on way into the reserve.


















-- Edited by Phil Owen on Saturday 20th of February 2010 05:32:48 PM

Rob Smallwood wrote:

---

Good to see you three there today - you missed nowt by leaving "early" (nor did we see owt by arriving "late"!) - but I'm intrigued - are you on a mission?

American Herring perhaps?

---

me and all-moore seems to becoming the mecca for manchester birdersi will definately have to knock penny on the head and give this place a crack,as i only live round the corner

Good to see you three there today - you missed nowt by leaving "early" (nor did we see owt by arriving "late"!) - but I'm intrigued - are you on a mission?

American Herring perhaps?

One 2nd W Glauc on Richmond Bank this pm.
Cheers.

Myself,Tom McKinney and Ian had a few hours at Birchwood today.Not as many gulls as before but we still managed a 2nd.w. Iceland Gull,3 Ad. Med Gulls (inc. a Polish ringed bird)and an Ad. Yellow Legged Gull.Worth getting our g******s frozen off

Four and a half hour gull vigil on Birchwood Pool today, Pete Berry, Tom McKinney and myself:

single adult Yellow-legged Gull
4 adult Mediterranean Gulls in various stages of head moult



-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 5th of February 2010 07:55:05 PM

Today, Pete Berry, Tom McKinney and myself. Four hour watch from Birchwood Pool.

Single adult Iceland Gull (on the grass bank of the tip only)
2 adult Yellow-legged Gulls
4 adult Mediterranean Gulls

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Wednesday 27th of January 2010 02:59:48 PM

I have just seen the pictures of the Moore Bittern son BirdGuides. If anyone here took them, congratulations, they are very nice.. Hope to see one myself sometime.

Ian Coote wrote:

---

I went to Moore yesterday afternoon and it was untypically quiet. So, this morning I went to Pennington instead and it was the same story there! Different story at Pickerings Pasture this afternoon, plenty about, if only the usual stuff. Brightened up a gloomy weekend!

---

I only went to moore,after i went to penny and it was quiet,big mistake moore was worse,then again it was raining hard all the time so ,small stuff would be sheltering

I went to Moore yesterday afternoon and it was untypically quiet. So, this morning I went to Pennington instead and it was the same story there! Different story at Pickerings Pasture this afternoon, plenty about, if only the usual stuff. Brightened up a gloomy weekend!

Pete Kinsella wrote:

---

JOHN TYMON wrote:

---

pm
beggar all
everytime i go birds seem to vacate,moore.more under the car park at penny ,than the whole site this aft

---

Hi, Sundays are often quiet at Moore gull-wise because the tip isn`t working and especially if there is a very low tide like today....Richmond Bank is often heaving with Gulls then.

---

cheers pete,im aware about the tip at moore,its a weard place at times i hardly saw a small bird in the woodland etc,no fiches,a few long tailed tits,but it reminds me of mere sands wood,has a lot of pertential,but like anywere unless you go regularly,it seems quiet,apart from the gulls,but obviosly its a great area for them that put the time in there,maybe ive been spoiled with penny flash over the years.

JOHN TYMON wrote:

---

pm
beggar all
everytime i go birds seem to vacate,moore.more under the car park at penny ,than the whole site this aft

---

Hi, Sundays are often quiet at Moore gull-wise because the tip isn`t working and especially if there is a very low tide like today....Richmond Bank is often heaving with Gulls then.

Perhaps they had all flown off to the Caspian Sea, but know the feeling John, it's like that at Chadkirk for me.

pm
beggar all
everytime i go birds seem to vacate,moore.more under the car park at penny ,than the whole site this aft

Much obliged Alan. As I have already said, I am not doubting the sighting as I didn't see it and to do so would be rediculous. A friend of mine however was less that confident of the bird in question but of course it is conceiveable he was on the wrong bird even though he felt he was not. Perhaps Pete Kinsella may learn Moore (couldn't resist it!) of the sighting if one of the guys was a Seaforth regular and I for one certainly hope it was a Caspian then everyone can be sure they have actually seen one. As for taking sides Alan, those who were not there (like me) cannot comment on the actual identification of the bird but we can pose questions which may help us all in the long run.

Hopefully the record will be submitted to the relevant county rarities committee and accepted as such as I personally feel that this is necessary to ensure the sighting is proven beynd all reasonable doubt.

Thanks again.

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Saturday 23rd of January 2010 10:54:23 PM

Hi Ian,

I do not know the name of the person who identified the gull as a Caspian, but I do know that he is an experienced birder with a special intrest in gulls and has spent a lot of time studying them at Seaforth. I am no gull expert myself and in no way am I able to say what the bird was.!

However I must add that the birder did mention several features, other other than head colour and bill shape, that he was looking for, and it appeared to me that he seemed very nowledgeable about Caspian Gulls in all their various stages of development and to me he seemed very methodical in the way he was doing it. As a non gull expert I realy did not fully understand some of the things he had mentioned but I do remember him saying the head shape in particular was good and its underwings were light, but other things he mentioned I do not remember. With referance to the light head colour and bill that was certainly not the only features he mentioned but later they were the ones he reffered to in order to try and get people onto the bird , which at times was partially hidden and difficult to see.

He was very confident about his identification of the bird and when he referred to as not being classical Caspian he did say that it was not how you would expect a typical Caspian to look at this time of year, but I can not remember if he said it was more how they would usualy look in March/ April or before January. I was not aware of another experienced "guller" being present or that he that he did not aggree with the identification of the gull. Others arrived after he had identified the bird as a Caspian Gull so they may not have heard about the other features he had commented on.

I have not submitted to the forum before but have decided to reply to this topic but do not wish to be seen to be taking side about who is correct over the identification of the bird but I did feel that I had something to add.
Cheers Alan

Hi, some very good points made there Ian.I don`t know the full details of yesterdays sighting but I did hear that it was on the small island and that almost certainly no photos were taken and that I didn`t see it!!
As you say Caspian Gull is quite a fashionable species which has only been on most birders radar for a couple of years.The problems with a lot of reported sightings are from birders who may have many years general birding under their belts but who haven`t really spent much time looking closely at Gulls.I fully understand that the thought of spending hours sifting through massive Gull flocks is anathema to some people, but to really get to grips with some of the subtleties of Gull ID that is what you have to do.As you well know the individual variation within Herring Gulls is enormous,sometimes its difficult to find two 1st winters that look alike!Because of this variation there are lots of Caspian look-alikes out there which often catch the eye ,but usually(and hopefully) don`t quite make the grade when closely scrutinised.
I`ve seen about 20+ Casps in the NW now, with more seen elsewhere in the UK and lots more abroad but when I "lock on " to a Casp contender I try to go through the ID features methodically if time allows and always try to get some record shots(nothing posh, just hand holding a Samsung NV9 to my `scope).If the bird isn`t a"classic", I usually e-mail any pics to other Larophiles, both locally and nationally, the more opinions the better!
I spent about six hours at Moore today and despite seeing six Yellow-legged Gulls and five Meds, I just couldn`t find a Casp....there were a few lookalikes, including several dark-eyed,white-headed Herring Gulls but no Cachinnans.I personally would make sure that I had pics to back up any claims of a non-classic Caspian( in fact any Caspian!!) as this species is very much a rarity in the NW and can be difficult to prove.

Cheers,Pete

-- Edited by Pete Kinsella on Saturday 23rd of January 2010 06:13:50 PM

Ian McKerchar wrote:

---

A friend of mine (who happens to be a very capeable, experienced guller) happened to be at the back of the hide when the alleged Caspian Gull was called. He appears to have definately seen the correct bird yet felt it was a almost certainly a Herring Gull. Apparently, whilst he was there, the bird was called a Caspian due to it's slightly whiter head than the Herrings around it and it's apparent parallel sided bill, no others features were mentioned. These two features are highly subjective and the latter atleast amongst the least useful in identifying the species at this time of year. Also, it was claimed the bird wasn't admittedly 'classic' ? So, I'm just wondering what other features were used in identifying the bird. I have no idea who the finder was, nor the other observers but in these times when Caspians are very popular and sought after plus quite often often mis-identified and certanly mis-understood, I personally believe it's right we're very cautious in our approach and identification. Were any photos taken? I know there are some very capeable and experienced gullers visiting Moore, more than knowledgeable enough to identify a Caspian Gull (Pete Kinsella, I know it wasn't you today ) and perhaps today's finder was one of them, so my query is not to pour scorn on the sighting but to aquire some confirmation that the bird was indeed a Caspian off a full suite of features including all the important ones .




-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 22nd of January 2010 10:15:05 PM

---

Sorry Ian, cannot help any further. When we arrived these two guys were already there, and alerted us, then gave the running commentaries. I was one of the "none gull" lads, and we went about 10 yards out of the hide and chatted with a none gull stranger whist the others looked.
I assume no photos were taken, but I see it was reported on BirdGuides, but it does not say my whom.

Regards

Geoff

A friend of mine (who happens to be a very capeable, experienced guller) happened to be at the back of the hide when the alleged Caspian Gull was called. He appears to have definately seen the correct bird yet felt it was a almost certainly a Herring Gull. Apparently, whilst he was there, the bird was called a Caspian due to it's slightly whiter head than the Herrings around it and it's apparent parallel sided bill, no others features were mentioned. These two features are highly subjective and the latter atleast amongst the least useful in identifying the species at this time of year. Also, it was claimed the bird wasn't admittedly 'classic' ? So, I'm just wondering what other features were used in identifying the bird. I have no idea who the finder was, nor the other observers but in these times when Caspians are very popular and sought after plus quite often often mis-identified and certanly mis-understood, I personally believe it's right we're very cautious in our approach and identification. Were any photos taken? I know there are some very capeable and experienced gullers visiting Moore, more than knowledgeable enough to identify a Caspian Gull (Pete Kinsella, I know it wasn't you today ) and perhaps today's finder was one of them, so my query is not to pour scorn on the sighting but to aquire some confirmation that the bird was indeed a Caspian off a full suite of features including all the important ones .




-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 22nd of January 2010 10:15:05 PM

It was a lot warmer today when a coach load of us went, well 5 anyway.
Not an awful lot about, mist the bittern again. We were just glad it stayed fine.

At the hide on the main lake, we had a running commentary on gulls by two other birders, and they, plus two of us were ecstatic to see a caspian gull. The other tree of us, would not go to the garden gate to look at a gull, but horses for courses

I was surprised how much water was still frozen, especially at the reed beds end.

Did not see any grebe, so I was a little disappointed. We think we saw the back of a flock of siskin.Still Moore is always a good place to go. A robin delighted us at the reed beds hide by perching on the top and windows for a while, allowing those with the clever cameras to get some great shots
Always nice to see jays, and we had a great view of a buzzard in a tree through the scopes, plus pictures.

Ian McKerchar wrote:

---

pete berry wrote:

---

Ian & myself spent 4 hours freezing our nether regions of today.Well rewarded with great views of 4 adult and 1 1st w. Yellow Legged Gulls on the ice in front of hide.Even the flask of chicken oxo couldn't ward off hypothermia

---

and Lesser Spotted Woodpecker by the car park...

---

oh, and three colour ringed Herring Gulls...

Ian McKerchar wrote:

---

pete berry wrote:

---

Ian & myself spent 4 hours freezing our nether regions of today.Well rewarded with great views of 4 adult and 1 1st w. Yellow Legged Gulls on the ice in front of hide.Even the flask of chicken oxo couldn't ward off hypothermia

---

and Lesser Spotted Woodpecker by the car park...

---

can't believe i live 1 mile from moore and still travell 10 miles to penny every wikendthen again if ians at moore and im at the flashpoints fer me

pete berry wrote:

---

Ian & myself spent 4 hours freezing our nether regions of today.Well rewarded with great views of 4 adult and 1 1st w. Yellow Legged Gulls on the ice in front of hide.Even the flask of chicken oxo couldn't ward off hypothermia

---

and Lesser Spotted Woodpecker by the car park...

Ian & myself spent 4 hours freezing our nether regions of today.Well rewarded with great views of 4 adult and 1 1st w. Yellow Legged Gulls on the ice in front of hide.Even the flask of chicken oxo couldn't ward off hypothermia

Called in at Moore this afternoon - got there about 3.15. As I always do, I stopped at the Big Hand Ranch to check across the paddock and was surprised to find a Kestrel peering out from the owl box situated there, but perhaps not as surprised as the Little Owl sitting just above the box !!!!

The track to the Eastern reed bed was still very icy but driveable with care. The water is still mostly frozen so no water birds to be seen. In fact very little about except a Buzzard perched in a tree across the reeds from the screen, a couple of Jays and a male Bullfinch in the alders down the path. Just before going home time at 4.35 one of the Bitterns flew across the frozen stuff and into the reeds on the right hand side (south??) from the screen so it wasn't a wasted detour .

2.30-4pm
No gulls of note (flyovers too difficult for me)...still very icy
Woodcock flushed by Birchwood Pool.
Treecreepers
Bullfinch
Willow Tit
...didn't even attempt the Eastern reedbed due to the icy path!

Pete Berry and myself today, in frankly pretty dire conditions

2nd winter Iceland Gull on the side of the now grassed over tip.
Yellowhammer- single flying over the Birchwood Pool hide

A few years ago a big landfill site near Gloucester was closed.

The result was hundreds of displaced gulls, and now Herring Gulls nest in Cheltenham town centre near the library and seem to exist on a diet of chips.

As I sat quietly in the corner of the screen on Saturday trying for some shots for Ian of the wing patterns of Herring Gulls there were some very friendly sounding bindippers saying hello to one another and if I'd seen anything I wasn't sure of I'd have felt able to ask my usual daft questions! The ironic thing was that with literally thousand of gulls there didn't seem anything out of the ordinary... anyway I'll say hello next time in case anyone from on here is there

Nice one Pete

Sid A - "bindipper in exile"

The `bindippers` might not be as quick in the future to point out the odd decent Gull to the ever charming fellows regularly met at the screen at Moore, I seem to remember several birders there who have only got Caspian Gulls and local Ring-billeds on their lists because they were pointed out to them...never mind we might tell you when the Slaty-backed turns up...or maybe we won`t...because I doubt if many of the regulars there could find it!!

Always happy to oblige

Mike Chorley wrote:

---

Matt Potter wrote:

---

sid ashton wrote:

---

pete berry wrote:

---

And to\ make it even more enjoyable not a "bin dipper" in our field of view all day.

---

As usual I'm struggling with birding terminology - so what's a "bin dipper" Pete ?

---

I know it as a Scouser*!!!






*These are not necessarily the views of the writer!

-- Edited by Matt Potter on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 06:19:53 PM

---

I'll get you at playtime, Hari

---

heehee! I thought you would be around after the bindipper comments!!

Matt Potter wrote:

---

sid ashton wrote:

---

pete berry wrote:

---

And to\ make it even more enjoyable not a "bin dipper" in our field of view all day.

---

As usual I'm struggling with birding terminology - so what's a "bin dipper" Pete ?

---

I know it as a Scouser*!!!






*These are not necessarily the views of the writer!

-- Edited by Matt Potter on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 06:19:53 PM

---

I'll get you at playtime, Hari

BINDIPPERS AND WASTE TIPS...IS THERE A RELATION ?

sid ashton wrote:

---

pete berry wrote:

---

And to\ make it even more enjoyable not a "bin dipper" in our field of view all day.

---

As usual I'm struggling with birding terminology - so what's a "bin dipper" Pete ?

---

I know it as a Scouser*!!!





*These are not necessarily the views of the writer!

-- Edited by Matt Potter on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 06:19:53 PM

pete berry wrote:

---

And to\ make it even more enjoyable not a "bin dipper" in our field of view all day.

---

As usual I'm struggling with birding terminology - so what's a "bin dipper" Pete ?

Ian McKerchar wrote:

---

Usual juvenile Glaucous Gull showing well today, visiting the Birchwood Pool a couple of times during the day. Also amongst the gulls, single adult Yellow-legged Gull and leucistic adult Herring Gull.

---

And to\ make it even more enjoyable not a "bin dipper" in our field of view all day.

Usual juvenile Glaucous Gull showing well today, visiting the Birchwood Pool a couple of times during the day. Also amongst the gulls, single adult Yellow-legged Gull and leucistic adult Herring Gull.

Ian McKerchar wrote:

---

As I understand it, the authorised visits were limited to 10 people and were obviously very popular!

Perhaps we here in Greater Mancester get more weekends gulls as a result of them moving away from Arpley Tip? Though why they'd move here at the weekends when our tips are closed for tipping too is odd. Perhaps it's due to scaring at our tips during working hours forcing many gulls away which means at weekends there's a glut of lovely rubbish for them to scavenge through, whereas the lack of scaring at Arpley means they consume most of what's there throughout the week leaving nothing left at weekends?

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 4th of December 2009 03:17:15 PM

---

Ian

Another theory.

All landfill sites operate under an Environmental Permit. In some cases the conditions of the permit will specify that the exposed face(s) of the site have to be covered when not in use. This can be for aesthetic reasons or due to odours emanating from the site which are classed as a public nuisance (a criminal offence under environmental legislation). At Arpley you will see most surfaces covered except the face of the cell currently being filled. I can't comment on Manchester sites as I have not visited them, however such conditions are largely influenced by historical complaints by the local population. All sorts of factors come into play such as the proximity of built up areas and prevailing wind directions etc. Arpley is a large and busy landfill site which has an urban area quite close.

At its peak last winter the gull population at Arpley was estimated to be around 30,000+ birds. The area of exposed tip face (relatively small for the above reasons)would not support that population unless the face is refreshed every few minutes - which it is due to Arpley being very busy. When the tip closes the exposed face will be very quickly exhausted of food and thus the gulls wander off.

Incidentally I understand that Arpley will be full within the next few years - don't know exactly when, but all current landfill space in the UK is estimated to be full within the next 10 years or so. There are relatively few areas left which meet the criteria for a modern landfill site, for this and other reasons there is likely to be a big push towards zero waste households. Consequently the spectacle that is currently provided will largely disappear from the UK in the future.

I will also be interested to see how the population at Arpley fares this winter. The latest Warrington recycling scheme kicked in last year - by now it should be embedded into the local populatiuon and maybe this will reduce the amount of food available at the tip?

Pleasant couple of hours at Moore with only one gull on the water and a few passing over/mobbing one of the buzzards: but plenty of teal, shoveler [doing a spinning courtship display?], little grebe, cormorant, some wigeon, tufties, coot, mallard, canadas, gadwall and the highlights - kingfisher on the farthest pool, and a party of Bullfinches and a grey wag. Also possible woodcock over.

Eh up Pete!

Remember last years (I think it was last year) 1st winter Yank Herring Gull or 2? on Richmond Bank and over Arpley Tip that 20+ birders saw me included, superb photos taken and posted on Surfbirds for all to see. Its not yet been accepted by CAWOS or BBRC as far as I know...looks like we need a member of said rarities committee to come down and suss one out for himself just like at Didcot for the Azorean job, then we can all tick it .

-- Edited by Pete Antrobus on Sunday 6th of December 2009 02:50:43 PM

Fingers crossed this Winter for a Cheshire Glaucous-winged or maybe a Slaty-backed...

Hi Pete. Thought weren't enough Pete's on this thread so I felt compelled to stick my beak in .

I must confess to not being a fan of the Herring Gull complex though a first-winter American Herring Gull would do (absolutley nothing to do with my 500). Sod the adults, if Keith Vinnicombe could get the putative Chew bird wrong - I'm not even going there!. The first accepted BOU record is of a first year at Neumann's Flash Feb-Mar 1994. With only 10 accepted BOU records by 2006 and only 1 in the last 12 months (Devon) plus another 3 in Ireland, I don't understand why Birdguides don't mega it

-- Edited by Pete Hines on Sunday 6th of December 2009 11:44:16 AM

and camera Pete, and camera...

---

Never without it Ian! Helped me today as well - finally saw some Twite [lifer] at Southport and could treble check the ID when I got home from the piccies!

Pete Welch wrote:

---

Glauc reported again today so weekend gulling is a possibility as suggested! Might take a flask and stake out Birchwood pool for a bit tomorrow...

-- Edited by Pete Welch on Saturday 5th of December 2009 08:26:09 PM

---

and camera Pete, and camera...