Manchester Birding Forum

PENNINGTON FLASH.

Ian McKerchar said
Thu Sep 16 7:02 PM, 2010

Please note also that tomorrow a vegetation survey will be being undertaken around the entire shore of the flash. The team (from some university or another I think) will be in a small dingy and have also been given permission to access Rammies although they have been given instructions to steer well clear of the spit during the survey, keeping to the edge of the rucks at all times. Please bear this in mind if you are visiting tomorrow. They are not just a bunch of scroats who've nicked a boat so please don't go stoning them

Ian McKerchar said
Thu Sep 16 6:31 PM, 2010

The possible Ferruginous looking duck(s) has been seen again tonight albeit very briefly in Rammies at 6pm ish. Still no confirmation as to it's true identity although apparently it's pale (White?) eye seems the most obvious feature (undertail coverts still not seen or noticed at any rate). More to come on this saga I hope...

Info thanks to Dave Wilson

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Thursday 16th of September 2010 06:33:15 PM

Nick Isherwood said
Thu Sep 16 3:36 PM, 2010

Visit to the flash this afternoon to search for the 'mystery' duck proved fruitless. I did however see several tufties in brown moult and I can honestly that what I saw on tuesday was not one of these. My duck was a much richer brown on its sides.

Anyway, I guess we'll never know now!!

Also, paid a visit over to Plank lane end to see if the Red Neck Grebe was still around but I was unable to find it. Only birds of interest over there were about half a dozen Pochard.

Ian McKerchar said
Thu Sep 16 8:14 AM, 2010

Adult Little Gull the only species of note early this morning.

Nick Isherwood said
Wed Sep 15 10:24 PM, 2010

Ian, as I stated to Johns reply earlier, I didn't want to cause any offense by my comments about not being taken seriously on this matter. I understand the need for you and others to get as much information as possible about this. It just came across as if my sighting was being 'rubbished'.

Lets say no more on the matter and see what tomorrow brings.

Ian McKerchar said
Wed Sep 15 9:57 PM, 2010

Well this Pennington regular happened to be on the Wirral today as were many others but whilst I won't usually post replies like this one publically (I certainly don't want this forum to get all Birdforumy

) I think there's a valid learning point for us all here.

Forums can often be rubbish for disseminating information. Sure they get it out quickly etc but comments are interpreted differently by different people and they all too often lead to misunderstandings or confusion. Your original post quotes the duck you saw as 'brownish sided with a dark back panel'. Sole features of Ferruginous Duck? As I can't get there until tomorrow anyway it is important for me to ascertain what features may or may not have been seen, particularly as it's a county rarity. Is an observation that Ferruginous Duck should not be 'noticeably larger' than Tufted Duck not taking you seriously? I think not. It is merely a fact in reference to your honest observations.

It's not that it's not being taken seriously, nor that most of the Pennington regulars are away (?) but that for whatever reason it seems no one may have checked today and that as it's dark now and I couldnt see it if I wanted to I personally like to get a feel for what has or hadn't been considered and features seen.

A lot of sightings like this never get submitted to the county rarities committee for no apparent reason (other than observers cant be bothered or perhaps have ill founded preconceptions about how such committees work?) yet they are most warmly welcomed and regardless of their ultimate outcome can contribute to our overall knowledge and understanding.

Nick Isherwood said
Wed Sep 15 9:27 PM, 2010

Thanks John.

I didn't want to get anyones back up by my comment. Just a little frustrated I guess.

JOHN TYMON said
Wed Sep 15 9:16 PM, 2010

Nick Isherwood wrote:

I'm beginning to think that no-one is taking me seriously on this!!

I realise that I'm not one of the 'Pennington regulars' but I have been birding for a few years now and I do know what a Tufted duck looks like.

I don't want to over state my case but it would be a real shame if this passed by without anyone double checking it.

Nick
At the moment most of the penny regulars are either working in the week like me or on holiday- barry,so at the moment there has probably not been many of the regulars on there this week,if its still about friday afternoon,ill take a good look.So don't think its not being taken seriously,its just that supprisingly a lot of the penny regulars like me live no-were near the flash now,im in Warrington,and work until after 6pm most nights,so can now only get there at the weekend,if i see it I will photograph it to confirm your finding .
Also a few of the penny regulars,don't even own a computer,so would not have known of your sighting.
There have been fruggi ducks in the past at penny,I found a crackin male once in the east Bay many years ago-good luck tomorrow.

Nick Isherwood said
Wed Sep 15 8:58 PM, 2010

I'm beginning to think that no-one is taking me seriously on this!!

I realise that I'm not one of the 'Pennington regulars' but I have been birding for a few years now and I do know what a Tufted duck looks like.

I don't want to over state my case but it would be a real shame if this passed by without anyone double checking it.

Ian McKerchar said
Wed Sep 15 8:51 PM, 2010

Ferruginous Duck shouldn't be 'noticeably larger' than Tufted Duck

There was a very intruiging Pochard x Tufted hybrid knocking about the flash for a few years (which could match your description) but I haven't seen it for perhaps a couple of years now.

Nick Isherwood said
Wed Sep 15 7:52 PM, 2010

Pete, its markings matched really closely to that of a Ferruginous duck. It definately wasn't a tufty as it was noticably larger than those.

It had chestnut brown sides with a dark back, it also had a very light coloured eye and a grey bill. As I said to Ian Campbell in his PM to me, I don't recall the white under tail but that doesn't mean it wasn't present. The duck was very active and constantly diving and wasn't on the surface for more than a few seconds at a time.

I do realise that these ducks do hybridise with other ducks and there is a possibility that this could be one. I've studied several images on the duck since seeing it and to my mind I'm 99% sure that it is one. I would have thought that maybe someone would have checked it out by now.

I've been on the Wirral today but I'm going to go back to Penny tomorrow afternoon to see if I can re-locate it.

pete berry said
Wed Sep 15 7:17 PM, 2010

Your description could equally fit Tufted Duck which are in moult at this time of year.Also Ferruginous Ducks have a large white undertail coverts which are very obvious, which you haven't mentioned in your description,and drakes also have a white eye which is also obvious.

Nick Isherwood said
Tue Sep 14 10:14 PM, 2010

As far as I'm concerned Ian, I'm 99% sure that it was one. I'll wait and see if its confirmed otherwise.

Ian Campbell said
Tue Sep 14 9:54 PM, 2010

I can't stand this, has anybody else been to look?, surely, why has nobody posted, is there an Iron Duck at Penny?.
Cheers Ian

Nick Isherwood said
Tue Sep 14 4:20 PM, 2010

Called in at the flash this afternoon for a quick look. I could be wrong but I saw what really looked like a Ferruginous duck working the far bank on the pool at the teal hide. I checked my Collins guide and it really looked like it. A brownish diving duck with a dark back panel. It kept itself separate from the other ducks and also was a little aggressive to them at times. I'd really appreciate it if any forum members could check it out and confirm it either way. Also there was a pintail on the spit.

Bill Aspin said
Mon Sep 13 12:35 PM, 2010

Red-necked Grebe still present at 11:00, western end (Zac Hinchcliffe).

Ian McKerchar said
Mon Sep 13 7:32 AM, 2010

Black-necked Grebe still present in Rammies, showing well from Ramsdales Hide early am (no check made on the Red-necked Grebe at the western end).

Ian McKerchar said
Mon Sep 13 7:18 AM, 2010

No sign of the Wryneck so far this morning.

Ian McKerchar said
Sun Sep 12 9:03 PM, 2010

Interesting Gull roost tonight with Pete Berry:

3800 Black-headed Gull
2 Great Black-backed Gull (adult and 4th calendar year)
970 Lesser Black-backed Gull
2 Yellow-legged Gull (adult and 1st winter, the adult being different to last weeks bird)

Also:

Red-necked Grebe still present at the western end
3 Green Sand (same birds as Dave Broome) flew high west over Green Lane at 7:30
Water Rail calling from Sorrocow Farm pond
Tawny Owl calling from around Sorrocow Farm

dave broome said
Sun Sep 12 8:52 PM, 2010

3 Green Sandpipers flew out of the reserve area at 19:30hrs tonight calling and climbing higher as they appeared to depart to the SW

Dave Thacker said
Sun Sep 12 8:27 PM, 2010

No sign of the Wryneck up to 7.30pm.

Nice to meet up with other forum members again

JOHN TYMON said
Sun Sep 12 7:34 PM, 2010

JOHN TYMON wrote:

Just had a ring from Charlie Owen-he has just had a Wryneck on the path on the canal at penny about half way between plank lane swing bridge and common lane bridge ,it was scared off by a dogwalker and flew onto the land on the opposite side of the canal-pretty sure its a first for the site.So if anyones in the area it would be worth a look on the opposite side of the canal and on the paths at the top of rammies.

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Sunday 12th of September 2010 05:58:43 PM

Wryneck had not been re-located up to 7pmthere are still a few birders looking though

JOHN TYMON said
Sun Sep 12 5:38 PM, 2010

Just had a ring from Charlie Owen-he has just had a Wryneck on the path on the canal at penny about half way between plank lane swing bridge and common lane bridge ,it was scared off by a dogwalker and flew onto the land on the opposite side of the canal-pretty sure its a first for the site.So if anyones in the area it would be worth a look on the opposite side of the canal and on the paths at the top of rammies.

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Sunday 12th of September 2010 05:58:43 PM

JOHN TYMON said
Sun Sep 12 4:54 PM, 2010

Sun 12TH
RED NECKED GREBE-1 JUV -VERY MOBILE -IN RAMMIES WHEN I LEFT AT 2PM-BUT HAD BEEN AT THE WEST END ,THEN THE SE BAY AS WELL.
HOBBY-1 JUV + 1 ADULT HUNTING OVER NORTH SIDE RUCKS,THEN OVER SOUTH BANK LATER
LOT S OF HOUSE MARTINS,SWALLOWS,SAND MARTIN,BEING HARRASSED BY THE HOBBIES.
BLACK NECKED GREBE-1
GREEN SANDPIPER-4
PLUS ALL THE USUAL STUFF

-- Edited by JOHN TYMON on Sunday 12th of September 2010 05:00:31 PM

JOHN TYMON said
Sun Sep 12 8:20 AM, 2010

SAT 11th(bit late but too busy doing my pics to post)
AM/PM
Red necked grebe-1 juv
black necked grebe-1
little gull- 1 adult through west at 2pm
great crested grebe-93(best number for quite a bit)
little grebe-2
green sandpiper-2
chiff chaff-6
swallow -100+ mainly through south during storms
house martin-100+
sand martin-50+
tufted duck-c400
pochard
plenty teal,shoveler,gadwall
sparrowhawk-2 juv
meadow pipit-4
cormorant-43

Ian McKerchar said
Sat Sep 11 2:52 PM, 2010

Red-necked Grebe still in the rammies area, due to disturbance from boats on the main flash.

Info thanks to John Tymon, Jon Taverner and Jimmy Meadows.

stuart lewis-gough said
Sat Sep 11 2:48 PM, 2010

4 green sandpipers from teal hide at 11.15 this morning. thanks go to Nick Hilton for putting me on the red-necked grebe and also black-necked grebe at rammies. red nenck was another first for me.

Nick Hilton said
Sat Sep 11 9:35 AM, 2010

9.30am juv Red Nck at Plank Lane end, juv Black Nck at Rammies

Ian McKerchar said
Sat Sep 11 8:33 AM, 2010

Juvenile Red-necked Grebe still present this morning at the western end of the flash.

Info thanks to Geoff Hargreaves

JOHN TYMON said
Fri Sep 10 8:46 PM, 2010

also this afternoon
3 green sandpiper-teal hide

Ian McKerchar said
Fri Sep 10 7:25 PM, 2010

Juvenile Red-necked Grebe still present at 7:15 tonight, at the very western end of the flash.

Info thanks to Nev Wright

Dennis atherton said
Fri Sep 10 5:53 PM, 2010

Me and john tymon have started a band. The Ex gullers. Ian banned us from gull watch.
JOHN TYMON wrote:

Dennis atherton wrote:

Sorry for putting up false info. Yellow legged gull not a yellow but a lesser black backed gull. Please blame john tymon as he told me to put it up. Dont shoot the messenger . That john tymon is no guller. He should stick to tree pipits.

no tree pippits after the ex guller (DA)left,but other birds arrived
little ringed plover -1 juv
dunlin-1
buzzard-1
wigeon-1m

JOHN TYMON said
Fri Sep 10 5:18 PM, 2010

Dennis atherton wrote:

Sorry for putting up false info. Yellow legged gull not a yellow but a lesser black backed gull. Please blame john tymon as he told me to put it up. Dont shoot the messenger . That john tymon is no guller. He should stick to tree pipits.

no tree pippits after the ex guller (DA)left,but other birds arrived
little ringed plover -1 juv
dunlin-1
buzzard-1
wigeon-1m

Dennis atherton said
Fri Sep 10 5:01 PM, 2010

Sorry for putting up false info. Yellow legged gull not a yellow but a lesser black backed gull. Please blame john tymon as he told me to put it up. Dont shoot the messenger . That john tymon is no guller. He should stick to tree pipits.

Dennis atherton said
Fri Sep 10 2:21 PM, 2010

Red necked Grebe still showing today at 2 at still in the same plank lane west end and also yellow legged gull on bouy showing left of horrocks hide

colin davies said
Fri Sep 10 1:10 PM, 2010

Dennis atherton wrote:

I thought he looked through your scope while i went to the car for mine, he must of seen it through phils scope, i mean keiths, no i mean Ians? what were you saying about my memory
Luckily we all got to see it what ever our names are

Jonathan Platt wrote:

Dennis - you've got a worse memory than me! Colin joined us briefly at Green Lane, but he was setting off on his bike by the time we got round to Plank Lane, he must have viewed the grebe through the scope of the guy you were talking to - sorry, I don't know his name.

Well, whoever you all were, it was nice to meet you. And what a great bird that Red-throated Diver was

Steven Nelson said
Fri Sep 10 12:43 PM, 2010

RN Grebe still at Plank Lane end at 12.30pm
Also here:
12 Chiffchaff in one tree with a party of LT Tits and Blue Tits
3 more Chiffchaff further along path
2 Willow Tit
2 Bullfinch
1 Jay
plenty of Swallows and a few House Martins over flash
c.200+ Lapwing flew in and landed on spit

Ian McKerchar said
Fri Sep 10 11:36 AM, 2010

Juvenile Red-necked Grebe still present at the western end this morning.

Info thanks to Andy Makin

Dennis atherton said
Fri Sep 10 10:08 AM, 2010

I thought he looked through your scope while i went to the car for mine, he must of seen it through phils scope, i mean keiths, no i mean Ians? what were you saying about my memory
Luckily we all got to see it what ever our names are

Jonathan Platt wrote:

Dennis - you've got a worse memory than me! Colin joined us briefly at Green Lane, but he was setting off on his bike by the time we got round to Plank Lane, he must have viewed the grebe through the scope of the guy you were talking to - sorry, I don't know his name.

Jonathan Platt said
Fri Sep 10 9:59 AM, 2010

Dennis - you've got a worse memory than me! Colin joined us briefly at Green Lane, but he was setting off on his bike by the time we got round to Plank Lane, he must have viewed the grebe through the scope of the guy you were talking to - sorry, I don't know his name.

Dennis atherton said
Thu Sep 9 11:28 PM, 2010

Hi Colin,

I saw you there today and the guy whos scope you looked through was Johnathon platts, very glad you got to see it, a superb bird, it can be a tricky one to find when it keeps diving, Best wishes
colin davies wrote:

I called in at the flash at about 5:30pm, and saw the bird very well at the Plank Lane end. I managed to pick it out through the bins when it was obviously a darker, thicker necked bird than the Great cresteds, but when another birder let me look through his scope, what a revelation is was. A cracking bird! I didn't realise that juv. Red necked Grebes were so well marked.

If you were the birder who let me look through the scope, thanks a lot, it was much appreciated. I was the birder on the bike, with the blue top.

-- Edited by colin davies on Thursday 9th of September 2010 08:54:04 PM

colin davies said
Thu Sep 9 8:52 PM, 2010

I called in at the flash at about 5:30pm, and saw the bird very well at the Plank Lane end. I managed to pick it out through the bins when it was obviously a darker, thicker necked bird than the Great cresteds, but when another birder let me look through his scope, what a revelation is was. A cracking bird! I didn't realise that juv. Red necked Grebes were so well marked.

If you were the birder who let me look through the scope, thanks a lot, it was much appreciated. I was the birder on the bike, with the blue top.

-- Edited by colin davies on Thursday 9th of September 2010 08:54:04 PM

JOHN TYMON said
Thu Sep 9 6:39 PM, 2010

Judith Smith wrote:

Well, no grebe flies in the daytime (other than short distances if disturbed, staying on the same water) and as it's been reported today, your chances must be good.
Dave Wilson had an egret sp (probably Little) in flight on Tuesday 7th.

apart from black necked grebes-see houghton green pool thread-which quite often appear at the pool throuout the day in spring/early summer.I saw one fly in very from very high up at lunchtime earlier in the year.

Dennis atherton said
Thu Sep 9 6:35 PM, 2010

For anyone looking for the last hour it is at plank lane end near an orange bouy with a large X on it. Good luck

Dennis atherton said
Thu Sep 9 5:56 PM, 2010

Red grebe showing well at plank lane end

Judith Smith said
Thu Sep 9 3:39 PM, 2010

Well, no grebe flies in the daytime (other than short distances if disturbed, staying on the same water) and as it's been reported today, your chances must be good.
Dave Wilson had an egret sp (probably Little) in flight on Tuesday 7th.

colin davies said
Thu Sep 9 3:24 PM, 2010

Any more news today on the RN Grebe? I'm hoping to call in on my way home, but I'm on my push bike, so positive news would definately spur me on!

sid ashton said
Thu Sep 9 10:35 AM, 2010

Ian McKerchar wrote:

Juvenile Red-necked Grebe still present 07:45 today.
Info thanks to Sid Ashton

Just to expand on Ian's message - the Red-necked Grebe was at the western end of the flash keeping fairly close to orange marker buoy X. Had really good views when the sun decided to shine.

Ian McKerchar said
Thu Sep 9 8:14 AM, 2010

Juvenile Red-necked Grebe still present 07:45 today.

Info thanks to Sid Ashton

Jonathan Platt said
Wed Sep 8 8:17 PM, 2010

I was at Green Lane around 5.00pm and the rn grebe was accompanying a coot across the centre of the Flash to Plank Lane (west) end. It was still in that area until at least 7.00pm.

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