Julie, I'm not sure who 'some of you' refers to but your reply (rightly) needs only aiming directly at Matt and no one else

Well said Julie! If Mr Potter regards himself as a real birder, maybe he should get off his backside and into the field, where he can find his own birds, and leave RSPB zoos to purple rinses and old gits, who are the main funders of RSPB anyway.

Well I am a so called old git and see many (mostly male) birders there who are considerably older than me. Is there a problem with older people birdwatching and do some of you think it is an activity exclusively for the young?

I observed the Lesser Yellowlegs from about 3pm yesterday with a Wigan birder (not on this site as he has no computer) at great range on the new scrape. Observing the obviously long legs, long neck and pencil-straight bill (over twice the length of the head) and size relative to the Lapwings dotted about. However this was insufficient for either of us to call it until we were lucky enough to catch it flying away and clearly observed the square rump like that of a Wood Sandpiper. It was therefore very instructive a few hours later to see the Pennington Wood Sand and to be certain the bird seen at IMF was not one. The Wood Sand was feeding with its pronounced tail bobbing action and more side to side movements where the Lesser Yellowlegs moved systematically along an entire bank with a more stalking action. I had also remembered that the bill length on a Wood Sand is not much more than the length of the head incomparison to the L Yellowlegs. I also saw (and caught on digiscope) the bird flying briefly away showing its similarly square white rump. Seeing both species the same day was most useful

paul brady wrote:

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Matt Potter wrote:

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paul brady wrote:

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Lesser yeloowlegs off and on yesterday.

Artsists impression of new reception building up in reception - am working on a display for the hide.

---

I hope you are not selling out! Its a great reserve that the purple rinses/old gits dont go to cos:-

1. They cant find it.
2. It doesnt have cafe/bistro/shop facilities!

---

1. It will be easier to find
2. We have no plans for a cafe or shop ... although a vending machine is not out of the question.
Also - There will be a new proper hide nearby!

---

Noooooo make it harder!!!

A vendign machine would be nice though!!

Matt Potter wrote:

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paul brady wrote:

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Lesser yeloowlegs off and on yesterday.

Artsists impression of new reception building up in reception - am working on a display for the hide.

---

I hope you are not selling out! Its a great reserve that the purple rinses/old gits dont go to cos:-

1. They cant find it.
2. It doesnt have cafe/bistro/shop facilities!

---

1. It will be easier to find
2. We have no plans for a cafe or shop ... although a vending machine is not out of the question.
Also - There will be a new proper hide nearby!

paul brady wrote:

---

Lesser yeloowlegs off and on yesterday.

Artsists impression of new reception building up in reception - am working on a display for the hide.

---

I hope you are not selling out! Its a great reserve that the purple rinses/old gits dont go to cos:-

1. They cant find it.
2. It doesnt have cafe/bistro/shop facilities!

Lesser yeloowlegs off and on yesterday.

Artsists impression of new reception building up in reception - am working on a display for the hide.

Lesser Yellow Legs and hobby present still favouring a distant perch in a tree

Jonathan - should have said that I was in the hide from 13.15 to 15.15. If the bird was present between my leaving and your arriving it was there in for a minimum of 4 hours - must like having its picture taken

Maybe we just missed you Sid as the turnstone flew off as we were walking down to the hide - we got there around 5.15pm. The two white greylag-types were also on Decca Pools. Apart from the L. Yellowlegs a ruff was present, along with a few dunlin. Out on the salt marsh a peregrine was perched up on a piece of driftwood and an early merlin briefly landed on a nearby post.

As the weather forecast for the afternoon looked ok and having a bit of spare time I decided to go over to IMF and give THAT bird another chance to show itself and did it!! On the way down to the hide the path was fairly bristling with scopes and folk peering into the distance some claiming to be able see its yellow legs- the bird was a blob in the distance on the back pool and the visibility was a touch hazy - folk 'seeing' what they expected/wanted to see.

So down to the hide - just as I arrived so did the bird, to give terrific views for a couple of hours - I now know for sure what a Lesser Yellowlegs looks like and it was one such bird that was present last Friday last, lesson learned . I had been well and truly 'WallyBobbed' - a new verb I learned today

Also present of interest; a Hobby, both hunting and perched up in a tree directly opposite to the hide, a single Teal, 3 Sand Martin and a Turnstone in summer plumage.

Later had a wander down to Decca pools - of note 60 plus Greylags including two almost completely white birds. I have not given myself any ticks, merely noted the above in my records

PS - To WallyBob, is the act of displaying amazing knowledge of subjects of which you know not a lot to recipients who should know better!!


-- Edited by sid ashton on Thursday 5th of August 2010 11:29:17 AM

Legs still present today.

Mike Passant wrote:

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A bloody good read this! I've really enjoyed it, (after being glued to the athletics, this was nearly as entertaining).

All it needs now is the Lesserlegs to fly from view (for good) and to be replaced by a Greaterlegs.

How long would it take to be identified as such? That would really set the cat among the pigeons. --And would Sid go back??

We could start a book on it, say 2 to 1 on, for starters?

Regards, (esp. to Sid)

Mischievous Mike

---

Thanks MM - I have been looking at the weather forecast for Wednesday.....

A bloody good read this! I've really enjoyed it, (after being glued to the athletics, this was nearly as entertaining).

All it needs now is the Lesserlegs to fly from view (for good) and to be replaced by a Greaterlegs.

How long would it take to be identified as such? That would really set the cat among the pigeons. --And would Sid go back??

We could start a book on it, say 2 to 1 on, for starters?

Regards, (esp. to Sid)

Mischievous Mike

Managed to see the Lesser Yellowlegs this afternoon with only five minutes to spare before it flew off after being disturbed presumably by a raptor which I couldn't locate.

Good views in the 'scope though distant but even better views in the bins as it flew away over our heads and into the distance. The long yellow feet standing out in flight were quite a spectacle.

A lifer for me and lucky enough that I managed to get there just in time!!

-- Edited by Phil Owen on Sunday 1st of August 2010 07:59:44 PM

Indeed Sid, therefore one of the migratory races - it'll never get accepted but there's many that think it's escape credentials are over-played.

There are doubts over the SemiP id too - as I said - it's a great hobby!

Rob Smallwood wrote:

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Not good enough Sid, we want blood, apologies, and sight of any list either paper or electronic that you keep.

After that we reserve the right to supress future reports from you and issue banning orders keeping you away from birding for a minium three years!

Then, and only then will you be allowed to glance at birds in your garden for a probationary period, before allowing you back in to the fraternity

Can't stop, I'm off to tick the Gallinule before heading north to check out that dodgy Little Stint up in Cumbria!!

It's a great hobby this!
-- Edited by Rob Smallwood on Sunday 1st of August 2010 01:28:31 PM

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Rob STOP -see the Saltney Flintshire posting the Gallinulle is in fact a Purple Swamphen

Not good enough Sid, we want blood, apologies, and sight of any list either paper or electronic that you keep.

After that we reserve the right to supress future reports from you and issue banning orders keeping you away from birding for a minium three years!

Then, and only then will you be allowed to glance at birds in your garden for a probationary period, before allowing you back in to the fraternity

Can't stop, I'm off to tick the Gallinule before heading north to check out that dodgy Little Stint up in Cumbria!!

It's a great hobby this!



-- Edited by Rob Smallwood on Sunday 1st of August 2010 01:28:31 PM

Thanks all for the comments iincluding those who prefer to PM I feel that I must respond so here goes:-

Firstly, apologies to anyone who shot off to IMF to be there at opening time 09.00 yesterday in the hope of seeing my probable Marsh Sandpiper, although you would possibly have been rewarded with the Yellowlegs in any event and in probably much better visibility than on Friday.

Simon, I was amongst a group 8 or 9 folk in the hide when the bird came in to join the Green Sand so personal congratulations are not necessary.

I treat bird watching as a very enjoyable pastime that has been of huge comfort to me in recent stressful times. Whenever possible I tend to go out with a specific target bird in mind eg Wood Sand on Friday. That is me, in life I generally tend to do things with a purpose rather than taking pot luck.

It may come as a surprise from what has been written but I do not actually tick birds that I have seen anymore. Although I am relatively new to the hobby I have lived abroad for much of my working life and the number of different species I have noted would probably be an impressive life list but I have confined my records (species, place, time, weather etc) to the UK since I discovered that all tits are not blue but I can not say for sure how many birds are on my UK life list and I am not bothered by that.

Although I have taken to bird watching much later in life than most of you guys I was taught to take as detailed a field note as possible for later ref and on those notes yellow legs did puzzle me on Friday evening. At that stage I firmly believed that a Yellow legs as a gull - naive or what? So it was with some pleasure that I heard of the Yellow legs yesterday morning by email from the chap I stayed in the hide with until Friday evenings rain abated half expecting the bird to reappear although by that stage the visibility was really bad.

A couple of you mentioned returning to IMF yesterday to make sure I had seen Lesser Yellowlegs. But in the same vein the question was asked How do you know its same bird you saw? Rare birds can disappear and suddenly be replaced by another one, it can and does happen. So I feel that returning yesterday would have not helped with the Friday evening bird identification.

So in conclusion I believe that the bird I saw on Friday afternoon at IMF was a Lesser Yellowlegs probably the one seen by a number of folk yesterday and for me, in my own tin-pot fashion this was enough and I shall record it so in my records.

Furthermore I shall certainly think twice before I post any future thoughts, do not want to irk too many people.

Agree with all your sentiments Pete. I am in the 'i want to id everything' camp. I suppose being on patch alone up in Shetland its the only way to go. I am also honest enough to own up not knowing everything i look at, i have spent many an hour in the field with you Pete asking and listening to your explanations as to why that gull is what it is. Its also true that a rarity generally sticks out, especially waders. I searched through hundreds of Dunlin for a Bairds but was easy to pick out, same with Lesserlegs in with Redshank.
You say you have only seen 1 Wood Sandpiper Sid, so you are not familiar with them. In that case could it not have been a Wood Sandpiper what you actually saw. Its easy to tick something later providing it was actually there!! Like i said it was not reported on Friday, although you were much happier ticking the rarer option of Marsh Sandpiper. A couple of minutes view would pretty much separate Green from Marsh from Wood from Yellowlegs etc. If it was me i would back at IMF/Burton Marsh making sure i had seen Lesser Yellowlegs.

cheers
jason

Hi, I`ve followed this thread and found it to be extremely interesting in both the attitudes of birders and the type of birding that gets done.Obviously as in any hobby,you get out of it what you put in.Some birders are happy enough to casually plod around a local patch others need perhaps more of an adrenaline rush such as long distance "will it stay?" type twitches, each to their own.I think you can also differentiate between birders who are happy to watch birds but not necessarily know what all the identities of those birds are and those birders who strive to ID everything.We`ve all I`m sure at some stage perhaps been birding when suddenly the penny will drop about a birds ID that has been calling in the background or on the periphery of your `scope view, sometimes its a subtle almost subconscious thing at other times you can be actively searching for a rare or uncommon species and amazingly find it.
Over 30 years ago a birding mentor of mine told me that when you see a rarity you will know it, if you think maybe, then it isn`t one.Generally speaking that rule has stood me in good stead over the years.Some birds of course are subtle or "cryptic" and often need a holistic approach others thankfully obvious.
Wood Sandpipers seem to be a trap for the unwary, I`ve regularly seen birders struggle with the ID of what should be a straightforward ID.One local example of this was of a Wood Sand present on the Fylde one May in the late `80`s.It was birdrace time of year and most Lancashire teams called in to add the bird to their day list.Many very experienced and competent birders saw it and walked away.The Seaforth team turned up and whilst looking for the bird found a Lesser Yellowlegs, it was the same bird and was indeed a yellowlegs.
The species pair cropped up again with me two years ago in Israel.I was checking a drained area of fishponds, heaving with waders, mainly Wood and Marsh Sandpipers and found a Lesser Yellowlegs amongst them.It caused a major Israeli twitch but I`m sure had been overlooked even by some of the best birders I`ve ever met there.
Whilst you cannot ID everything you see given brief or distant views any good or prolonged views should sort it out, as for retrospective ID`s , with photo`s great, but the mind can blur information very quickly and reaching for the Collins can influence the unwary to the wrong conclusion.

Firstly Sid, congratulations on your self find, if it was you who actually saw the bird first? (self-finding a rare wader in Britain still eludes me with Dotterel at Spurn and several Grey Phalaropes being my best self found waders to date, even though ive self found nearly 250 species) secondly I cant help but wonder why you are now happy that the bird you saw is now a Lesser Yellowlegs, after the event when somebody else has identified it by actually looking at the legs! How do you know its same bird you saw? rare birds can dissapear and suddenly be replaced by another one, it can and does happen (look at American Golden Plover & Pacific Golden Plover event in Norfolk recently as an example). To be really really 100% honest with yourself and if it was me I would have gone back to IMF, to a) check if it was the same bird b) study the ID features of a Lesser Yellowlegs, and make sure if you ever find another one you will know what it is(after all we mainly learn by experiencing birds in the field). c) tick with peace of mind a Lesser Yellowlegs. I only say this as it seems a hide full of birders missed the strikingly obvious feature of the leg colour. Maybe it was deep in water with no legs visible? Presumably no one in the hide had a collins field guide? Perhaps you were not confident in the brief views and theres no harm in that, but one rule of birding and which I learnt at an early age is never just accept what someone else tells you, i.e in this case that its too early for a Lesserlegs to turn up because obviously it isnt.

I was sat in a hide once at Blacktoft Sands in July when a Black Tern flew in during a rain storm, several birders just passed it off as a Black Tern but I and Ken Haydock had suspicions that it was in fact a moulting adult WWB Tern, when I mentioned it too all the other birders they dismissed it, after about 10 minutes of debating they finally accepted it was in fact a WWB Tern, a very satisfying result, the bird was enjoyed by alot of birders for the rest of that day.

This is not aimed at you Sid, but it seems to me that alot of birders are happy to just tick anything these days without actually looking & identifying birds that they see, ive seen people tick a Grey Catbird that was in fact a Dunnock, which left me dumfounded, needless to say Grey Catbird is not on my list. I have seen alot of rare birds but the one thing I try to learn is that if I ever found it on my own i would hopefully be able to ID it.

Its NOT all just about "ticks" on a list all birders should strive to improve their identification skills!

Anyway its stopped raining now & im going out birding IN the county

Just the thoughts of a Wee-Warford (Cheers Ian).

Phil Owen wrote:

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sid ashton wrote:

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Jason/John

Thanks for the comments - I am happy that the bird I saw was a Lesser Yellowlegs

---

Did you go today then Sid??

---

Phil no point in going today had really good, if brief views yesterday - just noticed it was reported again this evening after apparently going missing. The theory is that it is preferring the newly made scrape because of the food source there but does occasionally get spooked by overflying raptors when it goes over toward the hide as happened yesterday.
I imagine that it would be possible to scope the new scrape area from the top field although it's a bit distant.

-- Edited by sid ashton on Saturday 31st of July 2010 11:50:42 PM

sid ashton wrote:

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Jason/John

Thanks for the comments - I am happy that the bird I saw was a Lesser Yellowlegs

---

Did you go today then Sid??

Jason/John

Thanks for the comments - I am happy that the bird I saw was a Lesser Yellowlegs

sid ashton wrote:

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13.30 -18.00, Overcast and heavy rain later

I was at IMF this afternoon in the hope of seeing the reported Wood Sandpiper, I have seen one before but thought that it would be nice to see one again - arrived at around 1.30 and had to wait until about 3 for a single Green Sand to appear, almost immediately followed by "another" Sandpiper - immediate reaction was "oh good there's the Wood Sand" - but the more I looked at the bird - and it was present only for a few minutes before it flew off over to the area of the new scrape - the more I thought it was definitely not Wood Sand - a case of seeing what you were expecting to see originally. There were 8 or 9 others in the hide and between us we said definitely not Wood Sand. Only one of those had seen a Marsh Sand previously but we compared notes as to what we had seen and now that I have had a chance to confirm my field notes with ref books at home I am convinced that the bird was very probably a Marsh Sandpiper. I waited in the hide until 6 ish, by now it was heaving it down but the bird showed no sign of returning.

I have reported the above to Richard Harris at Deeestuary as had one of the other birders present. Richard in turn has passed on the information. Hope that someone else gets to see the bird over the weekend. Never did get to see the Wood Sand!!!!!

Other birds of interest present 3 Ruff, 6 Blackwits, Willow Warbler and Whitethroat.

P.S. apologies to Richard Smith (not Harris) Deeestuary.



-- Edited by sid ashton on Saturday 31st of July 2010 12:54:26 PM

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Not sure on the records but a NW Marsh Sandpiper would be quite a blocker. Plus its also a major national rarity. A hell of a lot rarer than Lesserlegs
If you are into retrospective ticking then here's a breakdown.
If you saw a yellow-legged sandpiper resembling a small Redshank its a Lesserlegs.
If you saw a yellow/green legged sandpiper resembling a small Greenshank it was a Marsh Sandpiper.
But, if you saw a pale, green legged sandpiper resembling a Green Sand then it was a Wood Sand.
What would you have thought of it if you were alone in the hide?
Lesser Yellowlegs wasn't reported yesterday but Wood Sandpiper was.
Just a thought.

cheers
jason

sid ashton wrote:

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Lesser Yellowlegs it was then

---

if it was the same bird

Lesser Yellowlegs it was then

Perhaps further comments on this subject should go in their own thread on the discussions forum.

Well, I never said I wasn't a twitcher did I? Got to be careful of getting confused between twitching and listing here too. Two very different things involving different types of birders by and large.

I was as daft a twitcher as they get up to the middle 1990's and whilst I very rarely twitch anything at all nowadays, exceedingly few birders can say they do not twitch. Nipping down to your local patch to see a reported very showy Kingfisher is still in essence twitching.

Twitching is in actual fact a very productive pastime for many reasons but all too often especially over the past several years, can be anything but.

Could be an interesting thread this

I am a birder first, my main Plan A is to go out birding and find something new, a biggy or a rare bird, as I watch the common ones.

I always end up on Plan B checking my pager ( which in fact I do Own) and chasing something, some lucky bugger has found.

However I am proud of all the twitching I have done, in fact I twitched the whole of the late 80,s and all of the 90,s, and now pick and choose when I twitch.

As for ticks, well the so called armchair ticks, Bean Geese spring to mind along with others, although I saw them before they were split, I personally had to go back and see them again after the split, to tick them.

So in respect of a bird I thought I saw, that was mis-identified I would go back to see it again if it was a lifer! Now I know that taking it to the limits but thats Birding, for me.

we are all different, but we should all....


Keep Birding

Ian McKerchar wrote:

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I have no interest in 'ticking' nor it's morals fortunately

---

Fair enough in your case Ian (each to their own I say!!)

However, I know a lot of birders who say they are not a twitcher or have never twitched a bird and yet they have 3-400 on their life list??

I think ticking or twitching is something birders don't like to admit to be honest.

You have to beg the question then if they are not a twitcher or indeed have never twitched, are all their birds self-found?? I think the answer would be without a doubt "no" and there's your answer!!

I don't mind admitting I'm a birder who enjoys covering my local patch and I'm also a twitcher!!!









-- Edited by Phil Owen on Saturday 31st of July 2010 03:28:06 PM

I have no interest in 'ticking' nor it's morals fortunately

Rob Smallwood wrote:

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Stirring up the subject of "ticking morality" there Sid!

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Arctic Skuas spring to mind!!!

Sid. I had the same quandry earlier this month at Traeth Dulas on Anglesey. I saw what i thought was a Wood Sandpiper and even reported it as such but after checking numerous books, video's, etc I was more convinced that I'd seen a Lesser Yellowlegs. As you said, the really vivid yellow legs where what changed my mind in the end.

Stirring up the subject of "ticking morality" there Sid!

Ian McKerchar wrote:

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Or was there actually a Marsh Sandpiper present yesterday

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I think I should have taken those yellow legs more seriously and not listened to the chap who stated "far too early for Lesser Yellowlegs - end of August more likely"

Hope I wasn't premature in changing my tick.

Or was there actually a Marsh Sandpiper present yesterday

Ian McKerchar wrote:

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Lesser Yellowlegs present this morning...

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I just changed my Marsh Sandpiper tick from yesterday to Lesser Yellowlegs

...and 3 Wood Sands!

Lesser Yellowlegs present this morning...

13.30 -18.00, Overcast and heavy rain later

I was at IMF this afternoon in the hope of seeing the reported Wood Sandpiper, I have seen one before but thought that it would be nice to see one again - arrived at around 1.30 and had to wait until about 3 for a single Green Sand to appear, almost immediately followed by "another" Sandpiper - immediate reaction was "oh good there's the Wood Sand" - but the more I looked at the bird - and it was present only for a few minutes before it flew off over to the area of the new scrape - the more I thought it was definitely not Wood Sand - a case of seeing what you were expecting to see originally. There were 8 or 9 others in the hide and between us we said definitely not Wood Sand. Only one of those had seen a Marsh Sand previously but we compared notes as to what we had seen and now that I have had a chance to confirm my field notes with ref books at home I am convinced that the bird was very probably a Marsh Sandpiper. I waited in the hide until 6 ish, by now it was heaving it down but the bird showed no sign of returning.

I have reported the above to Richard Harris at Deeestuary as had one of the other birders present. Richard in turn has passed on the information. Hope that someone else gets to see the bird over the weekend. Never did get to see the Wood Sand!!!!!

Other birds of interest present 3 Ruff, 6 Blackwits, Willow Warbler and Whitethroat.

P.S. apologies to Richard Smith (not Harris) Deeestuary.



-- Edited by sid ashton on Saturday 31st of July 2010 12:54:26 PM

Tony Coatsworth wrote:

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A selection of diggers in the distance - presumably for developing the new scrape

---

That is what indeed they are for and have actually been working for 2 weeks. However, after the driest June on record for umpteen years the wet July weather has halted proceedings ever so slightly!

However, despite not being ready the birds don't seem to mind with all the usual suspects being recorded there - green sandpipers being perhaps the highlight.

Please remember that this part of the reserve is not open to the public yet but for a sneaky behind the scenes tour phone 0151 336 7681 and ask for the dates of the "Burton Mere" walks.

2 Ruff
2 Common Sandpiper
80+ Blackwits

Juv. Hobby

A selection of diggers in the distance - presumably for developing the new scrape

Distant views of a Wood Sandpiper late afternoon on back pool with 3 Green Sandpipers. The Wood Sand was heard calling by another birder before being seen. A fourth Green Sandpiper to right of hide plus 37 Blackwits.

7 littled ringed plover and spotted flycatcher reported last night (Saturday)

1 whimbrel, 1 hobby reported today (Sunday)

Diggers begun creation of 5 ha scrape on Wednesday!

1 Spotted Redshank, 1 Peregrine, 1 Little Ringed Plover and 1 Hobby

Latest News:

29 native-breed Longhorn cows were delivered by Cheshire Wildlife Trusts Conservation Grazing Team to RSPB Inner Marsh Farm on Tuesday 29th June.

They can remove tough grasses allowing wildflowers to flourish and even eat trees keeping the wetland in prime condition for birds such as the lapwing.

The crack team of monster-munchers have a busy diary travelling from site to site across Cheshire and will become a vital cog in the management of IMF and the reserves upcoming extension...

Recent Bird Sightings:
4 spotted redshank (sum pl)
1 ruff
1 little ringed plover
1 greenshank (sum pl)
2 oystercatchers
1 curlew (heard)
150+ Black-tailed godwits
100+ lapwing
juv water rail
20+ juv little egrets
3 mute swans
female sparrowhawk
juv gt spot woodpecker

See you down there

Spotted flycatcher reported again
Gt Spot Woodpecker feeding young at feeding station
Lapwing
Black-tailed godwit
Buzzard

Linnet
Whitethroat
Sedgewarbler
Long-tailed tits
Blackcap
All above with young