i was referring to the birds bill base when i said not big enough. the bird was on its own when we were watching it so body size couldnt be compared, the round head plus white around the bill is why we called it as a scaup, it is a learning curve and i now know that these features alone dont make it a scaup as some juv tufted ducks can show these features, as simon pointed out to me on the phone when he saw the bird up close it should show a pale cheek patch and a nail tipped bill, he saw none of these features and no size difference to 2 tufted ducks that it was now with.i will certainly look more closely in future.
Ian McKerchar said
Thu Aug 25 8:35 PM, 2011
Dead right Mike, there is also an interesting (well, I think so!) article on the website about the Pennington 'mid' Scaup too. That said, I've still always found 'runt' Scaups (if that's what they are) to be typically broader in the beam and stockier (especially in the neck) than Tufted Duck, something that doesn't equate when looking at sizes in field guides.
I also think Brian is referring to the bill blaze itself when he comments that it 'is not big enough for a Scaup' and not the bird's actual body size, or atleast that's what I understood when discussions were underway.
Either way, it's all part of our learning curve and we learn more this way than any other.
Mike Passant said
Thu Aug 25 8:06 PM, 2011
- Just making a point in passing with regard to the putative Scaup female reidentified as a Tufty;- although generally Scaup should be expected to marginally average bigger than Tufted Duck, there is an example on the gallery ( 20. 02. 2010) of two excellent Paul Wilson photos of a drake Scaup at Elton no bigger than Tufted duck, with one shot showing the comparison just about perfectly........
Ian Boote said
Thu Aug 25 5:16 PM, 2011
few other bits today Little Grebe dip, lesser redpoll on lines at crow tree farm a common tern and two house martins crow tree farm.
brian fielding said
Thu Aug 25 4:42 PM, 2011
1515 till 1615 1 juv yellow wagtail, in sheep fields between old hall farm and crow trees but flighty, thanks to simon johnson for the tip off.year list 114
brian fielding said
Thu Aug 25 2:03 PM, 2011
the female scaup from this morning now seems to be a missed id tufted duck, simon johnson has now seen the bird close in and although the bird has a rounded head and a white blaze around the bill it is not big enough for scaup, we didnt know this morning but juv tufted ducks can show a rounded head, thanks to simon for putting it right and i have removed it from my year list.year list now 113.
brian fielding said
Thu Aug 25 11:35 AM, 2011
0645 till 1100 with ian campbell and ian peters 1 female scaup 3 spotted flycatcher, 2 below withins, 1 top of dip 3 garden warblers, below withins 1 peregrine on pylon 2 common tern 1 swift 30+ mistle thrushes nr crow trees. elton year list 114, latest green woodpecker, scaup and garden warbler.
-- Edited by brian fielding on Thursday 25th of August 2011 10:37:17 AM
Ian Campbell said
Wed Aug 24 10:12 AM, 2011
7.30-9.30 today, behind boathouse 4 of Willow Warbler and Chiffchaff and 3 Blackcap also 20+ Goldfinch. Little on res. Pylon 20 had a Peregrine and between Elton and Withins was a Kestrel, 50 Swallow and 25 House Martin. At Crow Trees the usual Little Owl in a tree. Best for me was a Dipper on the river, my first here this year. Cheers Ian
Ian Campbell said
Tue Aug 23 11:22 AM, 2011
Ian Peters wrote:
07:30 - 10:00
Ian Campbell migrating north from his trip to north Africa. Not much around although the little owl was on the woodpile at Crow Trees and a common sandpiper arrived on the wall around 09:15.
Just shows how stupid I am when most things with sense are going South
Simon Warford said
Sat Aug 20 5:04 PM, 2011
Early am, 7-9am
2 Spotted Flycatchers top hedge of the dip, also Willow tit, 4 Blackcap, several chiffchaffs. Garden warbler in hollow near main car park, plus 2 Blackcap. Yellow wagtail flew over below withins. 6 Teal flew into the reservior then flew off. 19 Mute swans Good numbers of Whitethroats, chiffchaffs and willow warblers.
Comma and 3 common blue butterflies.
Peter Johnson said
Fri Aug 19 7:04 PM, 2011
Female Redstart at double gates between Withins Res. and Crow Trees farm at 18:30.
brian fielding said
Thu Aug 18 12:31 PM, 2011
1030 till 1200 not much 1 curlew over 1 common tern
Simon Johnson said
Wed Aug 17 3:30 PM, 2011
Wheatear - Crow tree farm
Redstart - distant on the other side of field near metal gate at redstart hedge
Whitethroat 6 together wader point + 1 Withins Blackcap 3 below withins Sparrowhawk 2 Sand Martin 30+ House Martin 60+ Swallow 100+
brian fielding said
Tue Aug 16 11:22 AM, 2011
0630 till 1045 1 peregrine 12 goosander flew off east first thing.
brian fielding said
Mon Aug 15 12:44 PM, 2011
0630 till 1215 with ian peters, trever lane and nice to meet mike passant again 2 spotted flycatchers between the creek and wader point 1 common tern 1 little owl.
brian fielding said
Sun Aug 14 10:33 AM, 2011
0630 till 1000 with ian peters 2 peregrine, 1 sat on pylon, 1 south over canal 1 willow tit in the dip heard only 1 water rail calling from the marsh 1 little owl.
brian fielding said
Fri Aug 12 2:25 PM, 2011
1200 till 1400 very quiet 1 common tern no shoreline left now as water continues to rise.
brian fielding said
Thu Aug 11 1:39 PM, 2011
1030 till 1315 with ian peters 1 peregrine 6 goosander over 2 common tern 1 gadwall 1 little owl
brian fielding said
Tue Aug 9 10:06 AM, 2011
0600 till 0930 with ian peters 1 female redstart, on single bush along fence line at the top of the marsh 2 common tern large finch flock nr crow trees included some linnets water level now high with very little shoreline left.
brian fielding said
Mon Aug 8 12:02 PM, 2011
0630 till 1130 1 wheatear 1 grasshopper warbler 2 common tern
brian fielding said
Sun Aug 7 10:32 AM, 2011
0600 till 1000 1 curlew over 2 common tern 3 gadwall 1 grasshopper warbler, bridge 19 1 willow tit heard only ,top of dip.
Paul Wilson said
Sat Aug 6 1:35 PM, 2011
We also had a roe deer on far bank of the river
Simon Johnson said
Sat Aug 6 12:55 PM, 2011
6am-9am (with Paul Wilson for Some)
Highlight was a 1st Summer Hobby which flew past us at the Creek towards Sailing Club
Lots of warblers about 20+ Willow Warbler, Grashopper Warbler (bridge 19) 12 Sedge Warbler (5 together at Withins and 5 together Wader point) 5 Whitethroat and 6 Chiffchaff dotted about.
Kingfisher perched up at the Creek
Nothing much on res 2 Common Tern and 65 Lapwing flew over.
Feeding party of 19 Swifts over withins.
Little Owl Crow Trees with 40 Goldfinch in the field and 37 House Martin
Ian Campbell said
Fri Aug 5 10:37 AM, 2011
2 Common Tern on res, then spotted 3 more larger terns flying West and very high,(8.00 a.m.) possible Sandwich but did not get good enough view. 1 Gadwall on Withins and below here excellent close views of a Roe Deer, also 100's of Sand Martin and Swallows passing through this area. Cheers Ian
-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Friday 5th of August 2011 10:38:14 AM
Ian Campbell said
Thu Aug 4 9:31 AM, 2011
6.30-8.00 waders return, well 2 Common Sandpipers are better than nothing, also 2 Common Tern and no Sand Martin after 100's yesterday. Cheers Ian
Ian Campbell said
Wed Aug 3 3:22 PM, 2011
Brian had a Shoveler before 7.00 a.m. as I arrived (at 7.00) he was leaving, soon after 2 Common Tern arrived, one was ringed, and stayed for 20 mins, 200+ Sand Martin, less Swallow and 5 Swift plus 2 Kingfisher over the res also. 3 Little Owl around Crow Trees and a Grasshopper Warbler reeling in marsh at side of canal. Cheers Ian
Ian Campbell said
Tue Aug 2 5:23 PM, 2011
brian fielding wrote:
0645 till 1100 1 drake common scoter, flew off west at aprox 0900 3 curlew over 2 gadwall 4 teal 1 goosander
Brian, you forgot the small flock of Tufted with one female trying her best to convince us she was a Scaup, alas we had to conclude she was a fraud. Cheers Ian
brian fielding said
Tue Aug 2 11:27 AM, 2011
0645 till 1100 1 drake common scoter, flew off west at aprox 0900 3 curlew over 2 gadwall 4 teal 1 goosander
Dennis atherton said
Mon Aug 1 4:44 PM, 2011
yep, gotta be ready with your sandwiches when the rarities tern up
brian fielding said
Mon Aug 1 12:27 PM, 2011
0615 till 1145 ian campbell found a sandwich tern at 0705 which flew straight over the res, i was at capsticks at the time and missed it. not much else common terns still on 2 little owls.
brian fielding said
Sun Jul 31 5:42 PM, 2011
1515 till 1715 cuckoo found by peter baron at 1445 flying towards the dip, no sign upto 1705 1 drake common scoter still on res.
Peter Johnson said
Sun Jul 31 4:07 PM, 2011
Male Common Scoter on res. at 14:50.
brian fielding said
Sun Jul 31 10:53 AM, 2011
0615 till 1015 with ian campbell and ian peters 1 hobby, same place and time as yesterday 1 grasshopper warbler, bridge 19 1 reed warbler, in the dip 5 common tern on the res 1 little grebe nr wader point. elton year list 110.
Paul Wilson said
Sat Jul 30 11:47 AM, 2011
Ian Campbell wrote:
7-9 a.m. with Paul Wilson, 5 Common Tern on the res with nothing else of note. No sign of Redstart at the hedge but flock of Lapwing rose in the air as a Hobby flew over our heads then over Withins. Then 4 Stock Doves flew over, also rare at Elton. Hundreds of Swallow and Sand Martin were flying around and a small flock of Linnet seen. Cheers Ian
Also had large LT Tit flock (15+) and Dipper on the river near bottom of the dip after Ian left me.
Ian Campbell said
Sat Jul 30 11:17 AM, 2011
7-9 a.m. with Paul Wilson, 5 Common Tern on the res with nothing else of note. No sign of Redstart at the hedge but flock of Lapwing rose in the air as a Hobby flew over our heads then over Withins. Then 4 Stock Doves flew over, also rare at Elton. Hundreds of Swallow and Sand Martin were flying around and a small flock of Linnet seen. Cheers Ian
Ian Campbell said
Tue Jul 26 9:39 AM, 2011
Early a.m. with Brian and Ian Peters, on res 2 Common Sandpipers plus usual Terns. On Withins Great Crested Grebe with 1 juv. Kingfisher at overflow. Below Withins female Redstart and reeling Grasshopper Warbler and 50+ Lapwing in flight. Near Crow Trees 1 Little Owl. On canal pair of Swans with 5 young and at Bennys single injured adult with 3. Benny's car park another reeling Grasshopper Warbler. Cheers Ian
Peter Johnson said
Mon Jul 25 6:14 PM, 2011
The only birds nesting at Benny's this year were the Blue Tits in the bullet hole and all the roofing felt has gone, so there was nowhere for the Swallows to nest. Nice thought about the Black Redstart. I think there's only ever been 1 record of Black Redstart at Elton in 1996 on the car park, right where Paul parks next to the sailing club.
Paul Wilson said
Mon Jul 25 3:22 PM, 2011
Peter Johnson wrote:
3 Grasshopper Warbler this afternoon all reeling with one below Within's Reservoir, one at bridge 19 and the third adjacent to Benny's. Incidentally the land and the remains of the old club have now been sold, hopefully it will now be demolished.
I think I'd prefer it to stay up. There were always a few swallows nesting there and we all hoped a black redstart might one day show up there.
Peter Johnson said
Mon Jul 25 3:07 PM, 2011
3 Grasshopper Warbler this afternoon all reeling with one below Within's Reservoir, one at bridge 19 and the third adjacent to Benny's. Incidentally the land and the remains of the old club have now been sold, hopefully it will now be demolished.
Ian McKerchar said
Mon Jul 25 11:53 AM, 2011
Ian, if anyone has any further information relating to any form of human involvement (including the deliberate use of 'pet dogs') in the deaths of these swans then their first port of call should really be through the Police. The Police Wildlife Liason Officer for Bury can be found on the 'who's who' page on the website. The RSPCA has always maintained a very positive and keen role with regards incidents like this in the county too and has been involved in many such cases through to prosecution.
Steve Christmas said
Mon Jul 25 11:42 AM, 2011
It is worth noting that the male PBL had only one eye for some time so may have been more susceptible to attack from fox or dog. He was also quite badly attacked last year by the male from the pair further along the canal. His mate has also had only one eye for at least a year. Both possible victims of air guns in the past? Steve Christmas North West Swan Study
Peter Johnson said
Sun Jul 24 5:48 PM, 2011
Two of the family of Mute Swans breeding on the canal near Bennys were found dead last week. One of the adults, PBL, was found dead under a hawthorn hedge at Woos Nab farm. The other bird was a juvenile found dead at the top end of the canal. Apparently they hadn't been shot. Does anybody know more details about this?
We have just 1 pair of Little Owl breeding at Elton this year, at Crow Trees farm, producing 2 young. This has been one of our worst years. Our total of Little Owl young from Elton since 1999 is now up to 63.
-- Edited by Peter Johnson on Sunday 24th of July 2011 06:17:28 PM
Ian Boote said
Sun Jul 24 3:56 PM, 2011
Grasshopper Warbler in Marsh, Curlew behind Woos Nab, Kestrel Canal and heard water rail in dip 5 common terns, singing chiffchaff and house martins over spenmoor
Ian Campbell said
Sun Jul 24 8:56 AM, 2011
Male Redstart still present Redstart hedge this a.m. 8.05. On the res. 5 Common Tern, 2 Little Ringed Plover and 1 Common Sandpiper. Cheers Ian
brian fielding said
Sat Jul 23 4:00 PM, 2011
no sign of redstart this afternoon, grasshopper warbler still by bridge 19, info thanks to ian peters
brian fielding said
Sat Jul 23 1:51 PM, 2011
0600 till 0645 1 common sandpiper 5 common tern thanks ian, i scopped the wall from the creek but didnt see the yellow wag, must try harder and walk around in future.
Ian Campbell said
Sat Jul 23 11:00 AM, 2011
With Paul Wilson, best birds were Yellow Wagtail on wall, sorry Brian it flew before I could 'phone you. Male Redstart in Redstart hedge, 2 Little Owls at Crow Trees. Also on res. 1 Little Ringed Plover and 5 Common Tern. Cheers Ian
Ian Campbell said
Fri Jul 22 10:30 AM, 2011
7.00-8.30 today, same as Brian plus good view of reeling Grasshopper Warbler by canal near bridge 19 and a Wigeon briefly. Cheers Ian
-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Friday 22nd of July 2011 10:31:38 AM
brian fielding said
Fri Jul 22 7:11 AM, 2011
0545 till 0645 1 juv little ringed plover 2 common sandpiper 5 common tern
brian fielding said
Thu Jul 21 11:07 AM, 2011
0645 till 1030 1 grasshopper warbler showing well nr bridge 19, different bird to yesterdays which was nr the pylon 1 reed warbler along the canal also nr bridge 19 2 common sandpiper 5 common tern including 2 juvs 1 oystercatcher 1 sparrowhawk carrying prey.
I also think Brian is referring to the bill blaze itself when he comments that it 'is not big enough for a Scaup' and not the bird's actual body size, or atleast that's what I understood when discussions were underway.
Either way, it's all part of our learning curve and we learn more this way than any other.
Little Grebe dip, lesser redpoll on lines at crow tree farm a common tern and two house martins crow tree farm.
1 juv yellow wagtail, in sheep fields between old hall farm and crow trees but flighty, thanks to simon johnson for the tip off.year list 114
1 female scaup
3 spotted flycatcher, 2 below withins, 1 top of dip
3 garden warblers, below withins
1 peregrine on pylon
2 common tern
1 swift
30+ mistle thrushes nr crow trees.
elton year list 114, latest green woodpecker, scaup and garden warbler.
-- Edited by brian fielding on Thursday 25th of August 2011 10:37:17 AM
Cheers Ian
Just shows how stupid I am when most things with sense are going South
2 Spotted Flycatchers top hedge of the dip, also Willow tit, 4 Blackcap, several chiffchaffs.
Garden warbler in hollow near main car park, plus 2 Blackcap.
Yellow wagtail flew over below withins.
6 Teal flew into the reservior then flew off.
19 Mute swans
Good numbers of Whitethroats, chiffchaffs and willow warblers.
Comma and 3 common blue butterflies.
not much
1 curlew over
1 common tern
Redstart - distant on the other side of field near metal gate at redstart hedge
Whitethroat 6 together wader point + 1 Withins
Blackcap 3 below withins
Sparrowhawk 2
Sand Martin 30+
House Martin 60+
Swallow 100+
1 peregrine
12 goosander flew off east first thing.
2 spotted flycatchers between the creek and wader point
1 common tern
1 little owl.
2 peregrine, 1 sat on pylon, 1 south over canal
1 willow tit in the dip heard only
1 water rail calling from the marsh
1 little owl.
very quiet
1 common tern
no shoreline left now as water continues to rise.
1 peregrine
6 goosander over
2 common tern
1 gadwall
1 little owl
1 female redstart, on single bush along fence line at the top of the marsh
2 common tern
large finch flock nr crow trees included some linnets
water level now high with very little shoreline left.
1 wheatear
1 grasshopper warbler
2 common tern
1 curlew over
2 common tern
3 gadwall
1 grasshopper warbler, bridge 19
1 willow tit heard only ,top of dip.
Highlight was a 1st Summer Hobby which flew past us at the Creek towards Sailing Club
Lots of warblers about 20+ Willow Warbler, Grashopper Warbler (bridge 19) 12 Sedge Warbler (5 together at Withins and 5 together Wader point) 5 Whitethroat and 6 Chiffchaff dotted about.
Kingfisher perched up at the Creek
Nothing much on res 2 Common Tern and 65 Lapwing flew over.
Feeding party of 19 Swifts over withins.
Little Owl Crow Trees with 40 Goldfinch in the field and 37 House Martin
Cheers Ian
-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Friday 5th of August 2011 10:38:14 AM
Cheers Ian
Cheers Ian
Brian, you forgot the small flock of Tufted with one female trying her best to convince us she was a Scaup
Cheers Ian
1 drake common scoter, flew off west at aprox 0900
3 curlew over
2 gadwall
4 teal
1 goosander
ian campbell found a sandwich tern at 0705 which flew straight over the res, i was at capsticks at the time and missed it.
not much else
common terns still on
2 little owls.
cuckoo found by peter baron at 1445 flying towards the dip, no sign upto 1705
1 drake common scoter still on res.
with ian campbell and ian peters
1 hobby, same place and time as yesterday
1 grasshopper warbler, bridge 19
1 reed warbler, in the dip
5 common tern on the res
1 little grebe nr wader point.
elton year list 110.
Also had large LT Tit flock (15+) and Dipper on the river near bottom of the dip after Ian left me.
Cheers Ian
Cheers Ian
His mate has also had only one eye for at least a year. Both possible victims of air guns in the past?
Steve Christmas
North West Swan Study
We have just 1 pair of Little Owl breeding at Elton this year, at Crow Trees farm, producing 2 young. This has been one of our worst years. Our total of Little Owl young from Elton since 1999 is now up to 63.
-- Edited by Peter Johnson on Sunday 24th of July 2011 06:17:28 PM
Cheers Ian
1 common sandpiper
5 common tern
thanks ian, i scopped the wall from the creek but didnt see the yellow wag, must try harder and walk around in future.
Cheers Ian
Cheers Ian
-- Edited by Ian Campbell on Friday 22nd of July 2011 10:31:38 AM
1 juv little ringed plover
2 common sandpiper
5 common tern
1 grasshopper warbler showing well nr bridge 19, different bird to yesterdays which was nr the pylon
1 reed warbler along the canal also nr bridge 19
2 common sandpiper
5 common tern including 2 juvs
1 oystercatcher
1 sparrowhawk carrying prey.