London's last Ruddy Duck Stronghold (Brent Reservoir) has received a visit from DEFRA this week. There is now no sign of the previously 10 birds. :(

Fortunately I got it on my year list from an unlikely park in Central London last week. We must be down to the last few survivors now.

There are no Ruddy Duck in Greater Manchester... Fact!

Good, I have seen one of the other birding forums mention locations. I don't agree with this cull, purely a personal view, so if we can keep the ones left alive then great.

Phil

A government cull would be better...

You may not know, but the Ruddy Duck cull has raised its ugly head again recently, see quotes from The Guardian last week.
"Cull has killed 6,500, at a cost of £5m, and the government is about to spend a further £200,000 on the remaining birds"
Seems Defra & co think there are 100 + left in the wild in the UK.
The anti brigade says there are 300 and they will never succeed.
So I would suggest we carry on witholding any news of Ruddies anywhere.

Both this website and the GMBRG (which of course includes the annual county bird report) continue to withhold information on this species

Manchester Birding also backs Rob's new campaign.

-- Edited by Ian McKerchar on Friday 13th of April 2012 03:55:46 PM

words fail me again one minute an outside chance of seeing an osprey on the flashes then to find out about the mindless slaughter of such inoffensive creatures,not to mention all the time/money/effort spent trying to entice bitterns to 'adopt' the flashes
then let it be turned into a shooting gallery it defies common sense.

geoff

Ian Woosey wrote:

---

18/9/08

The shooters were out this morning on Pearson`s Flash. I walked onto the tow-path at 06:45 when it was barely light and they were already there. They were still at it when I left at 09:00ish....

---

i hope the shooters are very proud of themselveswonder what other birds got shot at the same timedaupt most of the shooters could tell the difference between a ruddy and a juv tufted?

18/9/08

The shooters were out this morning on Pearson`s Flash. I walked onto the tow-path at 06:45 when it was barely light and they were already there. They were still at it when I left at 09:00ish....

sad i know,but latest news from pearsons in the wigan reporter 21/02/08 24 ruddy,s shot on wednesday morning

geoff,if you see any rd,s don,t see em

its good that people are atleast considering both sides of the cull after all, that's essential to any productive discussion whatever your personal opinion but as far as the alleged politics of the cull are concerned, unless anyone can provide firm proof most of it atleast seems to be hearsay and therefore non-productive but if you know different then please let us all know

Sometimes we have to trust that the people employed to do a job will do it correctly. I think there is an inherent distrust in alot of birders regarding people who shoot, because their goals are almost polar opposite to a birders. But that shouldnt mean we tar them all with the same brush i.e they'ra all out to kill anything that flies. I've been out with a hooded top on today but it doesnt make me a thug (some might argue differently) but you see where I'm coming from?

As for the disturbance, I can see a point here, but would have thought that the period between October and mid November (aka bommie night) would be just as bad - almost incessant fireworks for weeks on end, admittedley outside the breeding season though.

Incidentally, the amount of £1500 per head has been mentioned, but I saw one of these jobs advertised a while back and it was something like £15,000 per annum pro-rata for the hours actually worked.

I think the reason I accept this course of action (but do accept it may not be perfect) is that I work everyday with species that are either threatened by non-natives, or are a new non-native species that is slowly becoming a real threat (and a problem for us humans to boot). In this instance one of our mistakes could cause a species in a nother country real problems and we need to stop that happening early.

I was discussing the Ruddy Duck cull with a guy at work today, who is dead against it. I was surprised to find myself arguing with him about the pro's of the cull!!! Don't get me wrong, i'm still not in favour but i found myself looking at it from a global angle. The bigger picture and all that. Let's look at this the other way around. If we had White headed Ducks in this country and an introduced species from abroad was threatening the exsistence of this species, we would expect the RSPB and the like to do something about it, wouldn't we? If the relevent bodies did nothing we would be outraged and cancel our membership in droves.
I'll get my coat

The thing that really gets me wound up about this, is the disturbance and killing and the politics behind it all. I've no doubt that deals have been done. Britain will comply while the rest of europe defies.(Don't get me going on that one)

24 Ruddys shot at "location" but only 4 been seen all year, so what species were the other 20?

I can see the bigger picture but on a local level it's just wrong.

Dean.

I may be a little off the mark here but I've a feeling that given the choice in the intensive negotiations the representatives of the spanish troops may just have gone for the option of shooting ruddy ducks in spanish nature reserves rather than being sent to Iraq. Just a guess!
Steve

I was told by Tom Gullick that a PPS (Principal Private Secretary) in the civil service had told him (whilst on one of Tom's holidays that he runs) that the cull was part of a deal between Britain and Spain to encourage the Spanish to send troups to Iraq (but please don't let's get into politics!)

Fascinating debate - the forum needs more of this!

I too have mixed feelings about the cull and whether or not it's a necessary evil. What's happening in our area at the moment doesn't make any sense but that's because it's all down to politics and a lack of "joined-up thinking". I have no proof but, reading between the lines, I'm sure a deal was done several years back whereby Britain agreed to cull the Ruddies and, in return, Spain would do something to enforce EU hunting laws and sort out some serious environmental/pollution problems in sensitive areas over there.

I'm pleased to see the issues of other introduced "pests" being raised and why DEFRA, etc are doing nothing.

My pet annoyance right now is the seemingly endless (re)introduction schemes. Bob Scott wrote a good letter about it to one of the popular monthlies recently - I think he was spot on. Taking Ospreys from Scotland to Rutland Water was outrageous. Money was spent simply to improve the awful reputation of a privatised water company and increase tourism to that area, with no advantage to the birds, which were increasing their range naturally. Cranes, Bustards, Corncrakes, White-tailed Eagles - where will it all end?

Steve
(wearing my own hat - definitely not my BTO one!)

Dean Macdonald wrote:

---

All points taken on board. The thing i don't understand is why so much money and effort is being put into this cull and not dealing with other problem species. Not just birds. Squirrels and many plant species are a huge problem. It seems that Defra are throwing everything into this simply to be seen to be doing something and waste money. I don't think the Ruddy will ever be erradicated completely. I think we all no some sights where they are where they won't be culled because they won't be found. Would the RSPB allow a cull at say Leighton Moss? and risk disturbing breeding Bittern. Would WWT allow one at Martin Mere and risk disturbing breeding Marsh Harriers or Avocets? The whole thing seems pointless because it wont work. I'd put money on Ruddy Ducks being seen at Wigan Flashes by the end of the summer.
Just seems like a lot of unnecessary killing and disturbance to me.

Jimmy, don't think anyone's gonna come to blows over this

Interesting debate, keep it going.

Cheers Dean.

---

Good point there Dean "why so much money and effort is being put into this cull and not dealing with other problem species. Not just birds. Squirrels and many plant species are a huge problem."

Consider this:

If someone had had the foresight years ago to control Grey Squirrels we wouldnt have a Red Squirrel Popn that was in severe decline and at risk from extinction. Seriously, they are considering 'island reserves' on the likes of Anglesey and the Isle of Man. Native White-clawed Crayfish pushed to the edge by American Signals. The Squirrels and the crayfish have the added problems that both the foreigners carry (but are immune to ) various infections that our natives cant cope with. If someone had got on top of Japanese Knotweed the country wouldnt be spending Millions (and thats multi millions) trying to sort out the problem now. We now have problems that are just too expensive /impractical even impossible to deal with.

Stable door horse bolted close etc.

We as a species are responsible for a lot of whats gone wrong and this is a (belated?) attempt to recify a problem. Rather than think about 'our north west ruddies' which is a feral population with safe poulation levels in its own natural range, think about Spains endangered WHD. BWP gives a clutch size of around 10 with a max of 20 recorded. So if one pair of RD reach spain, remain undetected, and breed successfully, that could be, lets say, 12 potential 'interbreeders' and the maths show it wouldnt take long to have a significant problem. Its all about controlling the risk and minimising the likelyhood. I bet nobody really considered that a few Grey Squirrels would have been such bad news for our Reds.

Conservation is often much more about the wellbeing of the species and not the individual.

Personally I can see the sense in it, and dont believe the RSPB WWT etc would have agreed to it if there wasnt a scientific basis behind it. But also agree that much more effort needs to be put in in Spain and the rest of Europe.

I guess that makes me one of the most unpopular birders in GM now! I'll get my coat

All points taken on board. The thing i don't understand is why so much money and effort is being put into this cull and not dealing with other problem species. Not just birds. Squirrels and many plant species are a huge problem. It seems that Defra are throwing everything into this simply to be seen to be doing something and waste money. I don't think the Ruddy will ever be erradicated completely. I think we all no some sights where they are where they won't be culled because they won't be found. Would the RSPB allow a cull at say Leighton Moss? and risk disturbing breeding Bittern. Would WWT allow one at Martin Mere and risk disturbing breeding Marsh Harriers or Avocets? The whole thing seems pointless because it wont work. I'd put money on Ruddy Ducks being seen at Wigan Flashes by the end of the summer.
Just seems like a lot of unnecessary killing and disturbance to me.

Jimmy, don't think anyone's gonna come to blows over this

Interesting debate, keep it going.

Cheers Dean.

Jimmy, there's no reason why this thread should or will close just yet, posts have been useful, thoughtful and in the good spirit of a healthy debate, just what we should be able to do. I think there's still more points to come with regards my most recent question (again not necessarily my opinion).

As a side note to lighten the debate for a few seconds and in reply to Judith comments about Tom Gullick the world top lister, that guy has seen 8702 species of bird on this planet (don't know about other planets though), staggering stuff.

thats the point i was trying to get at geoff theres nothing anybody can do about the ruddy duck cull now no matter what mine or anyone else's opinion the shooters could and probably do kill other birds whether accidently or intentionaly as no one is there to verify what they shoot i just think that the planning and money spent on the site that someone from one of the groups lwt,wwt,rspb or bto should know what has gone on during the shoots instead of getting it out of the local papers saying 24 ruddys shot onthe say so of the people who are doing the cull
i know i started this discussion off and so that nobody falls out over it it might be better if it closes cheers jimmy .

Are we focussing too much on the situation on Spain? Any relavant comments on the statement below from David Hoccum of the RSPB (extracted from the full posting further down this thread)?

"Ruddy ducks have spread eastwards towards Turkey and central Asia in recent years, potentially threatening the largest remaining population of white-headed ducks. Local control in Turkey would probably be impossible owing to the large areas of wetland, so it is essential that prompt action be taken to prevent ruddy ducks from becoming established in Europe. This means concluding eradication programmes in the UK, France and Netherlands the latter two being the only other European countries with breeding populations that could become self-sustaining should no action be taken."

lets hope the green winged teal doasn't pair up with the common teal,or they'l be shootin them as well

Personally i would rather see the ruddys left alone in the north west ,and any culling be carried out in spain,but getting back to jimmys point about the disturbance caused on the flashes affecting the bittern,dogs, kids and motocross etc I think the birds get used to or avoid when possible,but i have some footage of one of the recent culls which shows a bittern fleeing the scene,maybe a coincidence but all the money spent trying to convince a bittern to stay could have been wasted with one stray bullet.

cheers geoff

The Spanish shoot every Ruddy they see - yes, they can do it - and they don't miss any, Simon. I have it on good authority from Tom Gullick, the world's top lister, who lives there. They have several million euros to finance the shooting and habitat enhancements.

Dont get me wrong, I DO NOT in any way agree with the shooting of birds, and i wish that the woodpecker cider advert (the one with the mallards with machine guns) could happen in real english life! But I too also seem to understand why this is being done.

The facts are Ruddys are non native to Europe, do move south and do pose a threat to the WH duck. Yeah ok at present only a small number seem to reach Spain but if the population increases would that number still remain low?! Global warming has been mentioned saying the Ruddy's will stay here......is every year going to be mild tho? We cant predict the future and it seems action is being taken as a precaution.

Is it worth taking the risk of taking no action now and in 10 years time tom's worse case scenario
coming true? I would put money on it if this did happen the RSPB would loose just as many memebers for not doing anything earlier and helping the WH duck become extinct!

As for the Spanish culling the Ruddy's......how would they do this? Shooting? How would you single out the Ruddy's from the WH's......isn't there a risk of Wh's being caught up in the cull and wouldnt it be disturbing a threatend species in its own habbitat. At least if the cull is here there's no chance of the Wh's being caught up in it!

With being involved with the Ruddy Duck cull (Not actually the culling of the birds, so dont shoot me here!) Ive carried out a few counts of Ruddy's in the Cheshire and Manchester areas as part of my work with WWT. Its been interesting following this discussion on here.

Like David Winnard, I am in two minds with regards to this cull! I can understand why it is being carried out, but I do also find the idea of the Spanish shooting the ducks a much better approach to the whole situation.

I am not sure what ringing information the UK have on Ruddy Duck movements nowadays as I understand not that many get ringed! So how can it be proven that our Northwest Ruddies are going over there? I think more information on their movements is needed to help understand how the species is likely to spread within Europe and whether the control measures are likely to be effective.

K

I'm not adding a link, but if you want to see a brief layman's outline of DEFRA's and WWT's reasoning then just do a Yahoo search for 'wwt ruddy duck' and check the top search match.

Personally I'm against it, and providing there isn't a massive population explosion of Ruddys on the continent (so far the numbers are very small) then in the grand scheme of things I'd say it's perhaps better if money was given to Spain to cull Ruddys reaching there (which has so far seemed to be managable) as opposed to the disturbance going on over here. Many have also argued that it simply won't work, so why bother causing all the disturbance and wasting money?

Then again WWT/RSPB/DEFRA are pinning a huge amount on this, and there's no way that they'd do it unless they were 100% convinced. What if the cull is successful, British Ruddys are wiped out, Spanish White-headed Ducks are saved and British wetlands soon return to normal after the cull finishes? Were they right to have done it then?

Alternative scenario is that all of the money is wasted because it didn't work, already diminishing wetlands suffered prolonged and uneccessary disturbance and we're back to square one.

Worst case scenario if the cull is cut short/doesn't work: Ruddy Duck hybridisation destroys Spanish White-headed Ducks, North African/eastern populations of WHD die out through land development and massive irrigation schemes, and WHD becomes extinct.

Big things to think about... too big for me... I'm going to look for this Thayer's-type Kumlien's back-cross Gull at Poolsbrook, which is yet more hybridisation! These filthy American gulls could potentially destroy our pure Herrings, and what are DEFRA doing about that?

-- Edited by Tom McKinney at 11:57, 2008-02-19

I am still yet to make my mind up on this, for many reasons.......Ian lend me your bullet proof vest a second, here goes,

1) Is it acceptable for us to have allowed this species into the wild in the first place to an area it is not at all native - whether or not it is 'doing any harm'. Do we not have a moral obligation to keep our countryside native? (theres a whole other debate there on wolves bear etc!). So the erradication of Ruddy Duck, Grey Squirrel, Canada Goose etc is a must. We have for far too long had the 'Modernist' attitude of pick and choose what we want to conserve, Save Pandas, Kill Great White Sharks etc. Even though the duck does no harm to our native wildlife (as far as we know) - it shouldnt be here!
2) Surely the shooting of game birds such as grouse, woodcock etc that goes on is far more to complain about than the shoot of Ruddy Ducks? A friend who is a beater during the shooting season quotes what seem to me as high numbers of Woodcock that are shot - a species i would gladly see much more than Ruddy Duck! Not only this but because of this many birds of prey suffer at the hands of game keepers (and Pigeon fanciers) - sureley this is more important?
3) If we allowed Ruddy Ducks to stay would we also allow any other species that escape to remain in our countryside? Flocks of white-cheeked Pintail and Bald eagles are the next thing as long as they dont interfere to much?
4) If we were to prick Ruddy Duck eggs would that be so bad?
5) why should we let the spanish clean up OUR mess? 4 birds is still 4 birds.
6) were not wiping out a species, only a population, ruddies are still found where they are meant to be!

Dont get me wrong I have not made my mind up yet on what i think, this are just some thoughts - I have more of a problem with other birds that the RSPB seem to think its ok to allow to spread and introduce - Conservation is all about money and funding, thats it! whats the right and wrong thing to do doesnt seem to matter.

Yes I hate to see rather innocent creatures shot, but I also do not like the way we seem to treat the natural enviroment as OUR play thing, keep this, get rid of that etc. Surely having it as natural and as native as possible is the only answer.

anyway, ill see you all at dawn!

Dont Hate Me!
Dave

-- Edited by David Winnard at 00:20, 2008-02-19

-- Edited by David Winnard at 00:26, 2008-02-19

Looks like we posted at the same time Ian. The thing is with culling Canada Geese is it's done to benefit our breeding birds, not wipe out the species. Why can't the Spaniards just deal with any Ruddy Ducks that turn up in Spain? which is not many, if what i've read is true. If we're talking economics and not conservation, then surely it's cheaper to have a ranger who is monitoring White Headed Duck populations to get rid of the odd Ruddy rather than wipe out the species from our shores, just in case?

Dean.

To eradicate the Ruddy Duck in SPAIN is justified, on the grounds that hybridisation is threatening to wipe out a globally threatened species. To kill thousands in the UK, on the premise that a few MIGHT migrate to Spain is totally unjustified. Surely, is it not common sense to control the problem where it is actually occurring ?

Go on, go on

Judith has already given good evidence against the cull previously, but surely there must be someone out there with an opinion for the cull? If so feel free to contact me privately where I can anonymously post your comments (otherwise you could get culled yourself me thinks), it seems only fair that the thread should contain comments from both sides, if there are any that is

Please though, keep it to the facts and don't lets loose our heads with this one, it deserves a good and through discussion...possibly?

I resigned from the Lancs Wildlife Trust and WWT over it - hit them where it hurts! The RSPB lost 400+ members over it, too, I heard, and they might yet lose another! Only 4 Ruddies got to Spain in 2006 (their figures) - why fly all that way when you can winter in warm Warrington or Wigan, now that global warming has happened. No-one, even these so-called experts, is suggesting they are any problem here. Over in Spain, there are now 3000 White-headed Ducks (some suggest 5000) due to habitat restoration, instead of the 20-odd there were when this Ruddy Duck fiasco started. So it's unlikely White-headed Ducks will be reduced to breeding with their "cousins" when there's plenty of choice of their own kind.
Let's face it, Ruddies are an easy target. They sit on the water all day and don't fly off when the shooters approach (which is why the W-H Ducks were shot out) A lot different to Grey Squirrels, Mink, Terrapins and other nasties that really do the damage.
If you live in Wigan, when the local elections come round, remember that it is was this council that voted to allow the shooters on the land (they could have refused, as 50% of landowners have), and vote accordingly - the main opposition party vehemently opposed the cull.
Barbara Young of the Environment Agency has admitted that long term, the cull will not succeed. When the money runs out in 2010, hopefully there will be an end to this madness.

I can't make sense of this cull. Makes my blood boil
I read in the Times last week that the law on Grey Squirels is being changed. Apparentley, if you trapped a squirel and it didn't die, the law said you had to kill it. Now it's changing. If you trap one and it doesn't die, you have to release it. Licences are also being given to introduce more in certain areas. So Grey Squirels(i'll get the spelling right yet) are being encouraged apparentley and get this"because the public like them" even though they are not native, are wiping out the Reds and doing untold damage to our woodlands and birds. This government is just sucking up to european influence with the Ruddy Duck. Why no european directive on the control of extremely destructive rodents? oh yes they can't fly so not their problem.
I'll leave it there otherwise i'll go on all night.

Dean.

Now, firstly, this is more than a little devils advocate here and not necessarily my own opinion so don't go shooting me down straight away but I'm intruiged to know both sides of any argument. So, hoping that we've all read the reply from the RSPB below, outlining the reasons for their stance on the culling, does anyone have anything constructive to say in reply to it? Culling always seems a cruel and unessasary form of control and this current Ruddy Duck cull is no different but in light of the factual information that can be gleaned for and against, much of it available on the web, I'm interested to hear opinions from everyone. Does the culling of what is a non native, introduced duck that is allegedly treatening the population of a globaly threatened one, not seem justified or is there a hidden agenda to it that can be factually proven? Are we being driven by the heart (and wallets) for these attractive little yankees, blue beaks and bubbling? Is the occasional shooting any more disturbance than that created by dog walkers, kids in dingies etc?

As a side note, it strikes me as slightly ironic that not many are complaining about the current and previous culling of Canada Geese in the UK and more specifically in Greater Manchester?

Please remember, before you call the contract for my assassination , the above comments are not necessarily my own opinion but are there to perhaps invoke serious and constructive discussion. Now, where's bullet proof vest...

JIMMY-THERE IS NO SENCE TOIT. ITS MONEY LED-LOOK AT HOUGHTON GREEN POOL,EVERY WINTER LARGE FLOCKS OF WIGEON FEED AND STAY HERE UP TO 200 BIRDS YET THE RSPB AND WILDFOWL TRUST KNOW OF THIS YET HAVE SHOT ON THE POOL AT LEAST 3 TIMES MAYBE 4,KILLING AT LEAST 100 RUDDYS IN THAT TIME NOT TO MENTION A OVERWINTERING BLACK NECKED LAST WINTER THAT HAD BEEN ON THE POOL 3 MONTHS BUT WAS NEVER SEEN AFTER THE 1ST CULL,I DAUPT THESE SHOOTERS MIND KILLING THE ODD BLACK NECKED GREBE IF IT MEANS £1500 IN THIER POCKETS PER BIRD,A FIGURE IVE HEARD QUOTED A FEW TIMES .NOT A BAD DAYS WORK 30 RUDDYS 45 GRAND-I HAVE TO WORK 3 YEARS LONG HOURS FOR THAT.THE MADNESS WILL NOT END UNTIL THE GRANTS FOR KILLING THESE BIRDS RUN OUT,OR THE RUDDYS ARE ERADICATED,WHICH EVER COMES FIRST.ALMOST MAKES YOU WANT TO TAKE UP GOLF

just to say it does not make sense to me anyway to carry on shooting at pearsons when all that money has been spent to get bitterns to breed at the site with at least 1 maybe 2 who knows that are wintering on pearsons does anyone think blasting away at the site will keep the birds there i dont think so
with a bittern booming at leighton moss for the last week or so you would think that peace and quiet would be the best policy to try to keep the birds there and if there is any more shooting to take place this spring the groups that have put the money into attracting bitterns here must be thinking what the hell is going on the shooters will not be bothered if theres no bitterns there just getting well paid for something they would probably do as a sport anyway if anybody can give me a good answer feel free cos i cannot see sense in it thats for sure

Hi,

Yes the RD cull did go ahead last Wednesday.... more to follow apparently.

Kane

Jimmy, it definitely took place last Wednesday ; I heard the shots from Hawkley car park. It sounded like the first day of the Somme offensive !

just seen it in the local news that shooting took place last wed at pearsons
they said they shot 24 ruddys anyone heard anything about this ?

mike-it could be worse than thaught there were 21 ruddys during the rain on saturdaywhen will this madness stopapart from the ruddys a once great wintering area for wigeon is constantly being disturbed,i used to have up to 200 wigeon all winter,now its a third of that.how can the rspb condone disturbing a major feeding area of wigeon is behond me.it just makes me so sad

There has been a cull at Houghton Green Flash within the last 24 hours. 12 birds had been present recently - all are now missing with the exception of a female which is, sadly, lying dead on the bank.

Numbers of all other species are well down on recent days and all birds present are in a narrow strip along the north bank and appear unwilling to move from there.

Mike

A while back I e-mailed the RSPB challenging their standard statement for the issue - I have finally received a response - below.

Thank you for your continued interest in the ruddy duck issue. Ian Peters has forwarded your email to me, as I lead our work on non-native species and am better placed to answer your particular concerns. Please accept my apologies for the long delay in responding.

The Spanish population of white-headed ducks, as measured by post-breeding counts, has been relatively stable over the last 5 years at around 2,0002,500 birds. This does not remove the threat posed by hybridisation with ruddy ducks. Though numbers of ruddy ducks arriving in Spain have never been large, they could easily become so should no action be taken to curb the increase in numbers in the UK , which holds the bulk of the European breeding population. Spain has seen a small influx of ruddy ducks in recent weeks, following bad weather in the north-east Atlantic and across the UK . While the Spanish government is able to control the small numbers of ruddy ducks emanating from a reducing UK population, their task would be much harder should the number of birds reaching Spain grow due to a lack of action in the UK .

There is no guarantee that milder winters in the UK will cause ruddy ducks to become permanently resident, especially in the context of an increasing population subject to no control action. Should winter food resources become limiting, movements onto the continent might be expected, as happens with many wildfowl species during periods of prolonged cold weather. One major incursion could provide ruddy ducks with a foothold in Spain which the Spanish authorities have, until now, denied them.

The reason that conservationists are so concerned is that the mating strategies of the two species are very different: unlike white-headed ducks, which form stable pair bonds, male ruddy ducks attempt persistently to mate with females of both their own and other species. This means that, should ruddy ducks be allowed to establish in Spain , male ruddy ducks are likely to out-compete male white-headed ducks, experiencing much higher mating success and eventually genetically swamping the white-headed duck population. The likely result would be a population of hybrid birds with individual birds showing, over time, fewer and fewer characteristics of white-headed ducks. The population would eventually comprise solely ruddy ducks. In other words, the Spanish white-headed duck would become extinct.

Furthermore, at present only the Spanish population of white-headed ducks is stable the global population stands at fewer than 15,000 individuals and is declining. Hybridisation remains, by common consensus, the most important long-term threat to their survival. Ruddy ducks have spread eastwards towards Turkey and central Asia in recent years, potentially threatening the largest remaining population of white-headed ducks. Local control in Turkey would probably be impossible owing to the large areas of wetland, so it is essential that prompt action be taken to prevent ruddy ducks from becoming established in Europe. This means concluding eradication programmes in the UK, France and Netherlands the latter two being the only other European countries with breeding populations that could become self-sustaining should no action be taken.

This situation is one of many examples amongst birds, mammals, amphibians and fish, where hybridisation with an introduced species is threatening the survival of a native species. The introduction of mallards to New Zealand over 100 years ago resulted in a similar problem involving the native New Zealand grey duck. The proportion of non-hybrid grey ducks has now fallen below the level that is considered essential for the continued existence of this species, whilst the mallard population continues to increase. Globally, non-native species are considered the most important threat to biological diversity after habitat loss. A recent analysis by BirdLife International showed that non-native species were implicated in nearly half of all bird extinctions since 1500.

I hope that my comments offer further clarity and reassurance that our stance is based on rigorous scrutiny of the available evidence, and what I believe is a moral obligation to help safeguard the white-headed duck. I agree with you that the financial cost of eradication is significant, but, when viewed as a means of protecting the investment of conservationists in Spain over many years, it is proportionate. I can assure you that the RSPB would not support the eradication programme if we did not think it stood a good chance of success. The progress made so far in reducing the ruddy duck population suggests eradication from the UK is feasible.

To conclude, I would like to express my gratitude at your decision to remain a member of the RSPB. While we may disagree over this topic, I suspect we agree on a lot more. The challenges that face our birds and the habitats in which they live are as great as they have ever been probably greater we really do need your continued support.

Thank you again for getting in touch.

Yours sincerely

David Hoccom
Head of Species Policy
Royal Society for the Protection of Birds

Unfortunately there was a sneaky cull on Friday 16th at Houghton Green Flash. 13 of the 14 birds present at the time were shot.

Mike

The second round of the Ruddy Duck cull took place on Thursday 15th November. However, I hear they were thwarted by the hunt saboteurs, with only 7 shots being fired. The hunt sabs had a camcorder and were threatened with arrest by these shooters if they filmed them - a baseless threat of course, as there were no police present, as I understand.

i just got an rspb online shop, support us email, i've just inquired if they have any stuffed ducks...

I got the same standard response from Ian Peters so I challenged it.

No response as yet - it has all gone quiet.

Mike

Ian Peters - isn't he ex- GMC - his patch was Elton Reservoir. I've a feeling he claimed a Black-throated Thrush some years ago now.

riggers wrote:

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Just had a reply from the RSPB regarding the Ruddy Duck cull.A bog standard response i presume but here it is

Thank you for your enquiry about white-headed ducks and ruddy ducks, which Graham Wynne has asked me to reply to. I can understand why you are concerned - this is an important and complex issue.

Our decision to support the Government's plans to eradicate North American ruddy ducks from the UK, as part of a package of measures to help safeguard the white-headed duck, is one of the most difficult the Society has ever had to make. It has been arrived at following years of careful consideration of the detailed scientific research carried out into this issue. We are faced with a stark choice - either we act to stop ruddy ducks spreading from the UK, or we stand by and watch the ruddy duck push the globally threatened white-headed duck ever closer to extinction.

The outlook for white-headed ducks remains uncertain, with the Spanish population the only one known to be increasing in numbers as a result of sustained conservation action. BirdLife International, in its most recent assessment, classified the white-headed duck as Endangered, making it one of the most threatened species breeding on the European mainland. Hybridisation with ruddy ducks remains the most serious threat to its survival, and given the UK is the main source of ruddy ducks reaching the continent, it is imperative that action is taken.

As a bird conservation organisation, we believe that the RSPB has a duty to help safeguard the white-headed duck, but we are also saddened by the consequences for the UK's ruddy duck population. If there was a viable alternative to shooting these birds we would support it - we believe, however, that the Government's research programme has arrived at the only practical way of tackling this conservation problem. Taking this action can help secure the future of the world's white-headed ducks, while the ruddy duck will continue to thrive in its native North America, where there is a population of more than 600,000 birds.

We believe the Government is acting rightly and responsibly, but we do understand why this action will cause distress to some - we too would rather not be faced with this situation. The ruddy duck provides a cautionary tale of what can happen when man puts a species into the wrong place, which then has a devastating impact on other wildlife - we must learn from the mistakes of the past.

Thank you for your interest in this issue.

Regards

Ian Peters - Wildlife Advisor

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Frankly, What a load of B********.

This is a Duck we're talking about. Not a predatory species that is going to wipe out another one.
The White Headed Duck will survive or not, regardless of what we do to to the british population.

I can't believe the RSPB is supporting this.

Man has got it wrong in so many ways, in this case i think this guy is in the wrong job.

-- Edited by Dean Mac at 23:34, 2007-11-04

Just had a reply from the RSPB regarding the Ruddy Duck cull.A bog standard response i presume but here it is

Thank you for your enquiry about white-headed ducks and ruddy ducks, which Graham Wynne has asked me to reply to. I can understand why you are concerned - this is an important and complex issue.

Our decision to support the Government's plans to eradicate North American ruddy ducks from the UK, as part of a package of measures to help safeguard the white-headed duck, is one of the most difficult the Society has ever had to make. It has been arrived at following years of careful consideration of the detailed scientific research carried out into this issue. We are faced with a stark choice - either we act to stop ruddy ducks spreading from the UK, or we stand by and watch the ruddy duck push the globally threatened white-headed duck ever closer to extinction.

The outlook for white-headed ducks remains uncertain, with the Spanish population the only one known to be increasing in numbers as a result of sustained conservation action. BirdLife International, in its most recent assessment, classified the white-headed duck as Endangered, making it one of the most threatened species breeding on the European mainland. Hybridisation with ruddy ducks remains the most serious threat to its survival, and given the UK is the main source of ruddy ducks reaching the continent, it is imperative that action is taken.

As a bird conservation organisation, we believe that the RSPB has a duty to help safeguard the white-headed duck, but we are also saddened by the consequences for the UK's ruddy duck population. If there was a viable alternative to shooting these birds we would support it - we believe, however, that the Government's research programme has arrived at the only practical way of tackling this conservation problem. Taking this action can help secure the future of the world's white-headed ducks, while the ruddy duck will continue to thrive in its native North America, where there is a population of more than 600,000 birds.

We believe the Government is acting rightly and responsibly, but we do understand why this action will cause distress to some - we too would rather not be faced with this situation. The ruddy duck provides a cautionary tale of what can happen when man puts a species into the wrong place, which then has a devastating impact on other wildlife - we must learn from the mistakes of the past.

Thank you for your interest in this issue.

Regards

Ian Peters - Wildlife Advisor

They.ve already started on Cormorants, Simon. That's why roosts in this year's report have had to be identified by letters instead of sites. Under the FOIA I applied to DEFRA to find out if any licences for shooting had been granted in Manchester and two have been given. I was able to get copies of these licence applications and although the sites had been blacked out I was able to identify both of them quite quickly.
One might ask what the RSPB are doing about that as well.

Both Herons and Goosanders can also be controlled, as they were mentioned on the same licence application form.

W.r.t. Ring-necked Parakeets - I have heard rumours but nothing more. Ruddy Ducks are really easy targets as they sit on the water all day and only fly at night. Other non-natives which do much more damage (grey squirrels, mink and parakeets, if that is the case with them, would be much more difficult to control without spending vast amounts of money.